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 BiX
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 07:04 PM |
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Noise Regs and Solutions
OK, I ahev had the beetle almost ready to get back on the track for over a year now. But as iam not rallying as much i will have time to drive myself.
One problem i have is, i have an event at Lakeside in about 4 weeks. The new engine is has 48IDA's and a fatboy. Lakeside required 91dB, The mt
cotton hill climb is 94dB?. I know Sides had issues with his fatboy, and i know my car is allot louder than his (we estimate about 100dB).
So the question, what can i do to get the sound down to met regs. Both in the short term and also the longer term. Qld raceway, autocross track, and i
think morgan park a little more open about loudness..
I know a tuck away will get me under, but i can't afford one in the next month. Any ideas for end of pipe, easy bolt on/off systems?
Cheers
Drew
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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reub
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 07:08 PM |
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Part of your noise would be induction too.... That's the problem with my ride - the induction noise is louder then the exhaust...
Reub
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Adsman
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 08:21 PM |
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Air boxing or shielding the induction point massively reduces noise but on the down side often restricts flow. On EFI motors we have placed air boxes
around the intakes, with the suction holes facing the road side. This reduces the amount of noise around the car greatly. Also reduces the number of
boys in blue that follow.
Perhaps as a suggestion, as I have never tried to reduce noise of carbies, ducting an air scoop or even using a difuser plate (piece of slotted out
tin plate) over the top of the carbs may help. Can you run a duct from under the car to the carbies? It may help by changing the flow of air.
A couple of ideas we have done before where changing the air flow/direction/speed at intake has helped.
1)With pod filters on turbo cars where the filters are horizontal, we have placed a bent piece of plate over the top of the pod running down over the
front allowing around four inches of clearance. This then forces the air to flow from the sides and bottom.
2)EFI after market intakes/filter setups& turbo's. Placed a slotted out plastic box around the intake pipe allowing about three inches of
clearance all round. Slots where around half inch of plastic verses half inch of cut out. Both changed the tone and quietened the noise.
3)Put intake in the wheel guard near road with a dirt shield to protect the filter from the wheel flicking up dirt.
4)Snorkel intake on 4WD turbo diesel. Put a rain cap over the intake pipe basically a smaller pipe inside a larger pipe with a lid on it (approx 2
inches of over lap). Air flowed under larger pipe into smaller pipe if this makes sense. Caution as this method can generate a lot more or less noise
depending on how far apart the pipes are.
5)A friend of mine was trying bellowed out pipe to reduce noise, not sure how he went though. His idea was to place a piece of five inch pipe approx 1
metre long between the air filter and the standard 3 inch intake piping. He believed that changing the velocity point of the air would reduce the
noise.
Maybe someone on hear has played and looked into this further. Wes or Brad or Dave or Anyone.........
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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Adsman
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 08:29 PM |
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A dump pipe exhaust tip will direct the noise to the ground changing the noise around the car but not the total dB at the tip.
Or
Dread the though of saying this but...reducing the exhaust outlet size will reduce the noise at the cost of performance!! Seriously...Maybe someone on here has an old hideaway to ge you by for
now?
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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Sides
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 08:46 PM |
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Just to fill the story out a bit, my 1916 with 44's and the fatboy was close to the 95dB driveby limit at 30 meters.... highest I got was a 95.2dB,
and putting the hideaway on I'm now maxing out at 80.2dB.
I thought of a couple of alternatives BiX, but never tried 'em (I already had the hideaway sitting around)
- setup a baffle that shoves into the end of the fatboy, basically a perforated pipe filled with stainless-steel wool... may even have an old Monza 4
tip around to make the baffles out of
- make up some triangular plates that fit between the fatboy and the merge, with a smaller size hole in it - lower gas speed should be less noise
Induction noise is a tough one... other than ducting out to the air cleaner's I've seen CT use ( http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=65455&page=2#pid619430 )...... maybe sound deadening paint on
underside of the engine lid ???
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colin
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 09:08 PM |
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I have never had a problem with noise but at Ringwood a few tyears ago a mate was over the decibel limit by a couple so we hastely cut up a coke can
and made a crude but effective tip that directed the noise away from the meter.
Later on we made a tip that pushes onto the exhaust end and can be directed away from the meter wherever it may be.My mate takes it to every event and
it,s worth about 2-3 decibels.
Hope this simple idea helps a little.
Cheers Col
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555bug
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| posted on May 25th, 2008 at 10:19 PM |
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on a tangent is Lakeside back open? please share the details 
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BiX
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 08:09 AM |
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Ok well at the moment options are
1. As for the coastal, its really only the lakeside test (its a TRE with speed tests in carparks and skidpans along the way) that will have a noise
limit, was thinking along the lines mentioned above - a Milo tin on the end with smaller or more holes in it.
2. Steel/borrow/hire a hideaway muffler...
3. have an extra muffler hung under the bumper that i can then add a joiner pipe to the fatboy.
4. custom exhaust systems......
Induction i think could be killer for me. I know my cr with the old setup was banned from the mt cotton skidpan (40dells, 1776 and 2 inch sports
muffler in the same setup as the phat boy). Maybe some form of sheilding may work, and sound deading on the engine lid. Only problem i run an open
engine lid.
My main areas of concern are
1. making sure its under the 91dB limit for lakeside, as i don't want to the be first car to get a noise complaint for the venue. I don't mind
sacrifcing performance for one event.
2. the hillclimb is hard to test for, as if i try something and go over, and can't fix it, iam not allowed to run again......
Yes lakeside is open in limited amounts. More for car club track days and driver training on the skid pan. You really need to go along for a car club
track day. No open days and they have restricted days per year. Also i think they will test all cars for noise on the way in.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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BiX
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 08:11 AM |
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To add a note, i keep looking at the removable baffle i have for my motorbike and thinking.........
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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555bug
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 10:17 AM |
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supertrap
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Adsman
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 02:35 PM |
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It seems that a quick tidy solution if you don't mind a drop in performance is to cut a couple of triangles out of 2mm plate and cut a 1 5/8 hole in
one and a 1 1/2 hole in the other only take 15 mins to make one of each size. By bolting this in between the muffer and the headers it would mean that
if you go over only take a minute to change from the 1 5/8 to 1 1/2 plate.
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?
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The Bigfella
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 05:03 PM |
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Years ago a mate had a CB250 Honda with cheap aftermarket exhausts on it (the factory ones cost a fortune). He shoved some chicken wire inside and it
made a huge diference. I used that bike to do my licence test on (I'd endoed my Suzuki at 90mph and it wasn't in a fit state at the time) - all the
cop wanted to know was how my mate had got it quiet - he had a noisy one too.
Try shoving a roll of wire in for the test, then you can pull it out later.
If you want to see a nosiy engine - the twin Detroits in my boat are very early ones - with twin bladed superchargers that break the sound barrier at
about 1550 rpm. They don't call them screamers for nothing.
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Sides
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 05:10 PM |
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Heh heh - Col you'd be over the limit for sure I reckon - I still had the fatboy on when I ran at Bug In which gave me the 95.2 at Mt Cotton... and
your car was WAY louder than mine then !!!
BiX - Mt Cotton is easy to sort - if you buzz the limit you get a chance to rectify, which must be a "mechanical" mod... such as fitting a baffle or
whatever rather than just easing off... and then you get to go again. Buzz the limit the 2nd time though and you get to go home early.
Adsman has pretty nicely described what I was meaning about the traingular plate between merge and fatboy.... when you bring the car round can
experiment a bit with it if you like... I'm sure my neighbours must love me by now !!!
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 26th, 2008 at 06:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 555bug
on a tangent is Lakeside back open? please share the details
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yep! Had a great day there a couple of weeks ago...
Check out http://www.lakesideraceway.com
Pay your debts, CxxT
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colin
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| posted on May 27th, 2008 at 07:43 PM |
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Don,t tell me that Sides, i had a battery problem at the Bugin lapdash and was only reving the car to 5600rpm.
Way under my normal limit. I must admit though i have a new muffler and have not been to an avent with any noise restrictions as yet.
Cheers Col
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amazeer
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| posted on June 3rd, 2008 at 08:19 PM |
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Your ears dont work like a noise meter so comparing using your senses alone means nothing. I know of a particular event that always has people walking
away with the shits because of it.
Putting a bend on your tailpipe definitely works to a degree. If you are slightly over you will be saved by turning it away from the meter.
Dont know why they bother with noise meters at race tracks when Harleys are outblasting 747's up and down the main drag of shellharbour all weekend.
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rallydave
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| posted on June 25th, 2008 at 06:06 PM |
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If it means anything the longer the pipe length AFTER the collector is the ONLY cure fore noise db ratings.(my rallycar is now as fast and quieter
than before). It dosen't have to be a muffler or a baffle,it just has to be LENGTH.......try it.you won't be dissapointed....(so the girls
say!!)
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BiX
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| posted on June 27th, 2008 at 06:31 AM |
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Well they didn't actually test the noise, but the stewards where happy with the noise. The comments where, "al i could hear was carby/induction
from those 48 idas...." Thanks to Dave sidery for the loan of the exhaust.
Dave sorry i didn't get back to your sms, the event went well, a few small issues with the car, but a lsd will get me allot better times!!!
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on June 27th, 2008 at 06:53 AM |
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Hey no sweat BiX - the more volksy's doing events the better, and since I hadn't got myself organized into entering, well tempoarily nicking bits
off Jezebel was fair game.
You do owe me some pics of the event tho, and in return I'll update you on how the Quaife goes at the hillclimb next weekend !!!
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POZOOM
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| posted on June 30th, 2008 at 09:32 PM |
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At one stage I was having a little trouble with noise meters with a muffler I wanted to run. I simply had an exhaust system with a flange that would
allow the muffler to bolt to the header so the exhaust system could protude out the left and right hand side of the car. If you point the muffler away
from the meter it certainly lowers the reading significantly. This doesn't help the surrounding residents cause, but if the meter says your below the
max dB allowed you'll be right.
Heath
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on June 30th, 2008 at 09:39 PM |
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I have never had a problem..........stainless fatboy.
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Sides
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| posted on July 1st, 2008 at 06:16 AM |
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BiX was being cautious too since at Lakeside they'vee only allowing 92dB, and we know that a fatboy will go over that (I'd had repeated runs at Mt
Cotton log 94 and 95, even with the pipe pointing away from the meter).
The hideaway system I have now logs at 80dB, but am planning on getting something else since it's bit restrictive esp at the top end... sounds dull
too.
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Join a car club - get car peeps
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'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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colin
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| posted on July 1st, 2008 at 07:53 PM |
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Just remember though more restrictive means less hp.
On the dyno the difference between my loud muffler and my stinger was 4.5 hp.
Thats alot....
And i reckon my ida,s wouldn,t help either with noise.
Cheers Col
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 1st, 2008 at 08:05 PM |
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I register 92 dB..............Sides, if you're registering 80dB then your system is sucking HP 
Colin, did you change jets for the stinger ?
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colin
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| posted on July 3rd, 2008 at 04:57 PM |
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No jet change, mix was good
Cheers Col
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 3rd, 2008 at 05:57 PM |
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Cool..........I will try a stinger next time im on the Dyno, hopefully it will give me a similiar result......would be nice to have 143hp  without having to change much !
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colin
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| posted on July 3rd, 2008 at 07:52 PM |
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Craig,
Does 'the bolt' instead of a power pulley make much difference?
i noticed that Nathan and Heath use one.
Does it also effect oil temp?
I have only ever raced and dynoed with a power pulley size but am interested to hear.
Cheers Col
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 3rd, 2008 at 08:41 PM |
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I've only dynoed with a standard pulley (which threw the belt off at 7500rpm) and power pulley.
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BeetleJuice
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| posted on July 4th, 2008 at 06:44 AM |
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"The Bolt". Sounds like a Wrestler!
FringeDweller
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Sides
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| posted on July 4th, 2008 at 07:01 AM |
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Yeah, I know the system is sucking power - can feel it pretty clearly just driving the car on the road, but till I manage to sort out something
else... well I'd rather lose a bit of power than not compete (Mt Cotton they're becoming stricter, but still pretty fair in that you get a chance to
make it right on the day).
"The Bolt" that Heath and Nathan both run isn't big enough to be a wrestler - more like a throwing midget !!!
There's a pretty noticeable difference between standard and power pulley's, and Stan reckon'd the bolt was likely an extra 5hp over a power pulley.
Nathan said oil temps were up using it, but still under 120 or so (and the same day I was seeing 100'ish with a standard pulley).
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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