| [ Total Views: 1605 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 89673 ] |
|
|
 cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 6th, 2011 at 11:10 PM |
|
|
bias valve plumbing q's
hi guys, im just about to install a front brake kit similar to vwcools but want to try it with my t3 rear drums with competition linings..so im
thinking im going to have too much front brakes now..so would it make sense to install my bias valve inline for the front brakes to back them off a
bit....if so, i dont want the adjustment to be done under the hood,so could i plumb a line from the master to inside the the cab into the bias valve
then back out to a t-peice then to the front left and right corners.....
ill be running the kombie m/c thats why ill need the t-peice for the front aswell......
cheers....
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 7th, 2011 at 09:24 PM |
|
|
any one
|
|
|
mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on April 8th, 2011 at 07:32 PM |
|
|
not all that legal but its a great tuning tool especially for longer stages where heat and fuel loads change. It prob needs bias to be used with a
gentle touch as most dub owners know to much brake in the arse is not want you want,however as things change more control is a great advantage. now
the norm is to cut the front to rear line and tee in the bias valve all it does the is slow the flow to the rears so its not a real bias adjuster
however if your keen you can tee in the fronts as well to some bias valves and have a real 50/50 setup but it makes a twin system a single and thats
no good for rego, but id do it!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 8th, 2011 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
by putting the adjuster in the front circuit, you are reducing your braking capacity..... so why do the upgrade to such a good system. Isn't better
to not put it in/put in the rear for later?
Even if your front brakes lock earlier than the rears? maybe try the system with no adjuster and see how it feels, maybe play with pad materials for
the rear and front to fine tune the balance?
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on April 8th, 2011 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
yes and no the idea is parity not reduction of brake efectivness, pad changes is ok but what you are doing is accepting a flaw but if you put the best
you can [read afford] and adjust on the go, then you can do no better.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 8th, 2011 at 09:06 PM |
|
|
bix and mac, for now im going to try the std bendix pads with the competition linings rear....see how that goes...
as far as the bias goes i thought the fronts would be to much for the rears so id balance them up a bit with the bias valve....surely even if i had
to back them off a tad they would still be better then the stock t1 setup...and when i went to the ford rears i could re-plum the bias into the rear
line...
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on April 9th, 2011 at 11:14 PM |
|
|
I've done this. And it works. It's a regular setup on many competition cars to adjust brake bias. It's a good way to avoid putting a balance bar
in.
I did it on a buggy to stop the front wheels locking on dirt. Intially I just installed the bias valve in the front circuit, but I found it didn't
work. I asked some rally guys and they advised swapping the outlets round on the mastercylinder. Ie. swap the front circuit over to the outlet
normally used for the back and vice versa. Once I did this it worked very well. It was setup so that on the road the bias valve had no effect, I'd
just wind it out at an event.
Re legality; My engineer told me it was ok providing it couldn't be adjusted from the inside of the cabin. A lot of cars have factory bias valves
under the bonnet apparently. I put it near the mastercyl which worked well enough. I think you'd need certification for it though.
Hope that helps.
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 10th, 2011 at 09:40 AM |
|
|
what did swaping the front to rear outlets do??
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on April 10th, 2011 at 09:48 PM |
|
|
Allows the bias valve to do it's thing. I don't know why exactly, I mean I understand hydraulics and I've poured over diagrams of the mastercyl but
I still don't get exactly why it does this. It just works. Crazy but true.
I've looked at it over and over, but it stumps me. But I know it works.
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 11th, 2011 at 11:39 AM |
|
|
oky im a lil confused, so where did u plumb the bias into when u did the front to rear vise versa thing. me dahhhhh.......
|
|
|
Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 895
Threads: 90
Registered: July 21st, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Adelaide
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 11th, 2011 at 12:04 PM |
|
|
From a chat i had with a brakes guy ages ago...
You could put an adjustable valve in both lines - front and rear. 2 adjusters.
That way when fully undone they work as normal with no resistance, then you can reduce front or rear to suit your driving style or race event.
He said many race cars have it adjustable from inside the cabin but that as illegal for street but its up to you. Alternatively you just set it up in
an easy to find location under bonnet/fuel tank...
|
|
|
oldtub356
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 139
Threads: 14
Registered: December 6th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 12th, 2011 at 03:14 AM |
|
|
Handy Hint:
Always Bleed brakes with Bias Valve FULLY OPEN - then adjust it back to your preferred spot.
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 12th, 2011 at 10:56 AM |
|
|
thanks for that tip..would of sucked trying all day to bleed brakes...
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on April 18th, 2011 at 01:03 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cnfabo
oky im a lil confused, so where did u plumb the bias into when u did the front to rear vise versa thing. me dahhhhh.......
|
Look at your master cyl. You will see that the line closest to the firewall/pedals goes back through the firewall to the rear brakes. The line closest
to the brake light switch goes to the front brakes. This is the normal configuration.
However, if you simply put the bias valve in the front line, it won't work. Trust me. I tried and no cigar.
So, put the bias valve in the front line BUT, connect the front line to the master cyl outlet closest to the firewall/pedal (which
would normally be used for the rear line). Then connect the rear line into the mast cyl outlet nearest the brake light switch (which would normally be
used for the front). OK?
If it's all to hard, I'll take a pic for you ok?
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on April 18th, 2011 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
OK, so I took some pics anyway...
The first pic shows where I put my Bias valve. Out of the cabin but easy to get to and close to the brakes for simple connections... but I won't
pretend it's pretty...
The second shows the master cylinder.
You notice it has two red letters next to the outlets marked A and B. In normal configuration it is like this...
A = rear brake line
B = front brake line (2 outlets)
However, for the bias valve in the front line, you need to reverse the outlets like this...
A = front brake line (to bias valve then to T piece and brakes)
B = rear brake line (with 2nd outlet blocked off)
Hope that's clearer.
|
|
|
PAZZAN
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 592
Threads: 113
Registered: January 30th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on April 18th, 2011 at 06:34 PM |
|
|
seems like a lot of work I had stock beetle rotors on the front with late callipers and 914 dics and callipers on the rear using the same comp pads
front and rear never had a problem ...stock bendix pads turn to charcoal after one race ...10 laps ..
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 18th, 2011 at 08:57 PM |
|
|
ill let u know how it goes...
first race is 8th may.but not ten laps, more like ten stages.....ill see how the bendix pads go....
|
|
|
bigrudi
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 401
Threads: 118
Registered: April 12th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 29th, 2011 at 06:08 PM |
|
|
EBC do a very good ceramic pad to suit beetles and is also real good value as well, i ran the same set up as pauls car i had no need for more brake
power until i went turbo Cheers RUDI
|
|
|
