| [ Total Views: 3014 | Total Replies: 59 | Thread Id: 102845 ] |
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 simohagz
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 07:47 AM |
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Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback, it has helped a lot.
After doing a lot of calling around, and reading a lot of feedback on the various options, I have decided on one of Rod’s 1916 “signature”
builds.
Now that I have the longblock squared away, is there anything in particular I should be including in terms of ancillaries?
I was thinking of possible add ons to your “generic” setup and came up with:
• 1916 longblock
• Magnaspark 2 ignition system
• Remote oil filter
• Deep Sump
• Electric fuel pump
• Oil pressure sensor
• Oil temp sensor
• Vintage speed “heater” peashooter
• Bugpack street max hi flow flanged heater boxes
• Uprated alternator
Can anyone see any issues with any of the items above? Are any of them necessary and a worthwhile upgrade or is it smarter to stick with a more stock
setup?
Does anyone run a Vintage Speed exhaust with a 1916? Is it restrictive? I really want the stock look utilizing the cutouts and apart from the A1
sidewinder with peashooter the vintage speed is the only thing I can find tat fits the bill!
Whats the general consensus on Kadrons v Dell’s v Webers? Bearing in mind this is going to be a regularly (weekly) driven car?
Car is being assessed Saturday morning! Can’t wait for the action to begin!
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SuperOwen
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 01:02 PM |
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Don't quote but is that vintage speed exhaust flanged? I thought that model clamped onto the j tubes.
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sander288
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 01:23 PM |
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the heater version has options to either clamp onto stock boxes/tubes or flange attach to J tubes or heater boxes.
Shouldn't be restrictive; Remmele Motorsport in Germany has dyno'd a 2.3L with the heater version to 175hp without restriction
http://store.vintagespeed.com.tw/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=sho...
Dells vs Kads
Dells make more power but are more tuning and fiddly
Kads less power but generally easier to live with for a daily providing the linkage is either a) set-up correctly or b) replaced with either a berg or
CSP linkage
^^^ someone correct me if wrong
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 02:39 PM |
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Hi Simon
Here's my 2 cents worth!
I have recently gone through the same exercise as you with trying to figure out how and with whom I was going to spend my hard earned cash as this
would be a substantial investment.
After a far bit of looking and phone calling I decided to go down the "Rod Penrose" pathway and have Rod build me a fantastic 2054cc motor. (see
attached photos).
The following items/issues were important for me to take into consideration:
1. I spoke to a number of people whose opinions I trust regarding who they would recommend.
2. I wanted a street drivable motor that would drive well in the city or on long trips and not cough, spit and fart at the traffic lights!
3. I spent a far bit of time looking through this forum and others so that I was as educated as possible so that I had some idea of what I wanted.
4. It was important to me that the person who was going to build the motor was approachable and was readily contactable and available to spend time
with me so that I understood what was going to happen with the build and what the process involved and wasn't only interested in getting me in and
then that was the end of the relationship.
5. I wanted a builder who had an obvious passion for VW's.
6. I also wanted a builder who would stand by their product and if any issues arose that they would jump on them and resolve them.
After a number of phone calls I decided that Rod ticked the boxes.
You have made mention in your posts that you were considering purchasing a motor overseas....I would strongly recommend that you do not do this as you
will need to have local support and know that if you have a question, and you will, that all you need to do is make a local call.
I can vouch that I have called Rod on numerous occasions during the week and weekend to ask him questions both before, during and after the motor was
completed and he was always available.....this was very important to me. Also, when I had questions relating to parts that I ordered direct from CB
Performance in the USA, Rod contacted them on my behalf when he didn't really have to.
Rod is also very upfront and honest and will provide you with as many options as you would like and will take the time to explain the pro's and
con's including costs etc so that you are as well informed as possible.
I can also recommend the Vintage Speed exhaust (see attached photo). These are great looking, sound great and fit like a glove. Rod does not sell
these. I got mine from Boris from Vintage Vee Dub Supplies.
I am also sure that there are many good motor builders out there but I can honestly say that I absolutely love driving the car.
Simon, I am located in Willoughby if you would like to catch up.....just PM me.
Regards
Greg
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simohagz
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 03:35 PM |
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Greg,
Thanks for your comments.
I also have spent considerable time "lurking" about the frums, reading hundreds of posts and online aticles and have swung between importing,
building my own (fanciful..) and having one built locally.
In the end, I made contact with a few builders around Sydney and Rod was the one that a) answered every single question I asked him over, and b)
promptly sent me a complete breakdown of what goes into his engines and the associated cost of any changes to the formula.
It is for this reason I am on the cusp (awaiting confirmation of bodywork required) of heading down to visit Rod for a drive of some of his motors.
Greg, your engine bay looks great, do you mind giving a bit more detail on the build? General specs/power etc. Can PM if you like?
I am sold on the vintage speed as I want to retain heater funtionality and love the look of the stock peashooters. (I see your not running
heaters?)
Interesting to note that you have a 2054 in there without any additional cooling from the look of it? Are you running a stock transmission?
My goal is to go for the largest motor I can manage without too many issues as the car will be a regular driver and low down, low-mid rpm are
important for a street car.
Would be great to catch up and talk VW. Now I just need to find time to slip away from the wife and the 6 week old for a few hours....
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simohagz
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 03:37 PM |
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Sander, thanks for the reply.
From what I can see Vintage do a model with flexi hoses up top and an adjustable flange down low for heater box connection.
Re the carbs, I dont want to strangle the thing but at the same time the lowest maintenance option will realistically be a better choice for me.
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Lateral
A.k.a.: Greg Hanley
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 04:39 PM |
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Hi Simon
Send me a PM and we can arrange a catchup and chat. Rod can provide you with all of the specs of the motor.
Regarding your question about extra cooling.....I too was a bit skeptical when Rod said that I would not have any issues regarding cooling running a
2054 motor in the car. The front tinware, sleds have been removed and at this stage I am only running the standard dog house cooler. I have a full set
of gauges including cylinder head temp on # 3 and everything is running well within specs and exactly as Rod said. Having said that, I have decided to
install a thermostatically controlled fan assisted remote oil cooler (see photo) at the same time (from Rocket Industries) I install the remote oil
filter not because I have to but because I want to as I will be taking the car on a few really long drives in summer.
The dual carbies are 40mm Decades (IDF copies) and seem to be performing well and were easy to tune when we ran the motor on the dyno.
Oh, and the Vintage Speed exhaust that I have does not connect to the heaters and uses J pipes.
Regarding the gearbox, Dave Butler (Dangerous on this forum) rebuilt the gearbox some years ago and it has a tall 4th gear that is great of the
freeway!
Interestingly, I have done a few long test drives and mileage tests and have been getting about 31 mpg which I think is great!
Regards
Greg
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Smiley
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| posted on July 26th, 2013 at 08:04 PM |
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Regarding carbs.
I can't say much about webers cause I've not personally had any experience with them. But I've been running Kadrons on my 2054 (also a Rod engine
actually) for almost 2 years now. In that time they have been adjusted twice, they really are a set and forget carby. Once you get them right they
stay that way for a long time. And I've probably done close to 80-90 thousand kms in the last 2 years.
I do agree with the comments about buying a good linkage or taking the time to set the stock one up properly.
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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simohagz
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 04:04 PM |
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Is anybody running a Pobjoy 1916? Or a 1916 dual ignition?
Interested to see opinions on how the Pobjoy motors compare to Rod's for driveability and reliability?
Cheers,
Simon
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sander288
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 04:29 PM |
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Lots of people running Pobjoy motors out there (me being one albeit 1285cc), his base 1916 comes with a warranty so that speaks of the reliability of
the engines in itself
twin plugs in essence do not mean more power but a greater spread of power as they in effect remove the 'hot cam' syndrome
cnfabo on here has a pobjoy twin plug with videos on youtube and many a hillclimb champ has been won using his engines; with that said many a drag
race has been run using Rod's engines
http://www.youtube.com/user/cnfabo
Stan's channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/stanpobjoy
In terms of comparisons you are going to get ALOT of opinions without alot of hard evidence to back things up; BOTH are renowned builders so my advice
would be go to the one you like and gives you what you want. Drive ability will be a matter of opinion asking for a qualitative analysis on engines on
a forum is just opening a can of worms IMO
http://www.stanpobjoy.com.au
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au/index.php/home
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simohagz
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 05:17 PM |
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Haha, thanks for the input mate.
Thought I might be opening a can of worms.
Basic issue is that both blokes seem like truly enthusiastic and helpful people, and both have a heap of people standing behind their products.
And when you compare the prices, they are line ball!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 07:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
many a hillclimb champ has been won using his engines;
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LOL....not since I stopped racing, and not very many won before I started !! 
Those wins came down to the driver and not just the motor, so don't use that as an example.
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 matberry
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 07:21 PM |
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^^ ha ha, I've built 1600's that whip those 1915's
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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sander288
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 07:27 PM |
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whether a rod engine or a stan engine having a motor plays a pretty important part in being able to win a hillclimb I would think 
But being a 1300 I for one know "power" isn't everything
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 07:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
whether a rod engine or a stan engine having a motor plays a pretty important part in being able to win a hillclimb I would think
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That's right Sander288, I would have won regardless of who built the motor so there's no use referencing hillclimb performance to a pobjoy.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
twin plugs in essence do not mean more power but a greater spread of power as they in effect remove the 'hot cam' syndrome
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Is that speaking from experience Sander288 or just re hashed info ?
I remember Peter Brock saying his Polariser did great things too....
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sander288
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 07:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
twin plugs in essence do not mean more power but a greater spread of power as they in effect remove the 'hot cam' syndrome
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Is that speaking from experience Sander288 or just re hashed info ?
I remember Peter Brock saying his Polariser did great things too....
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It is re-hashed but it also is in the blurb on his website about twin plugs - I have never driven in or driven a 1916 VW nor have I won hillclimb
champs nor do I represent Stan Pobjoy. I am simply providing my opinion to help someone build an engine, neither me (& simon I suspect) want this
to turn into a slinging match.
You could contribute to the discussion given your experience with the engines rather than pulling quotes out from my posts and stirring
all I can say about the polariser is that he didn't have it with him when he crashed so it must of done something! 
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matberry
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 09:09 PM |
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So what is 'hot cam syndrome' ?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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sander288
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| posted on July 29th, 2013 at 09:18 PM |
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from my understanding it is the "delay" before the cam comes into it's power band
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david777
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| posted on August 1st, 2013 at 01:43 PM |
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Mike from CBBVW has serviced my 1916 Beetle for the past 6 years. I couldn't be happier with the quality of his work.
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cnfabo
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| posted on August 1st, 2013 at 08:03 PM |
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Just use good parts properly inspected,machined..if you are only after a daily cruiser then piece of cake, any of the builders on here will build you
a nice engine...one of them offers a warranty and others don't,your pick.....I have had a engine from rod and Stan and was/am happy with both....but
if I was going for a daily I'd go for a torque cam all in by 5000-6000........you should not need dual springs,chromoly pushrods,ratio rockers,fancy
tuneable ignition,berg linkage, ida's, etc so don't be called for that shit....
Have fun
Fabo......
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fish26
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| posted on August 15th, 2013 at 10:36 AM |
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Some good info on this thread, I know a guy that paid for a warrantied engine that could not claim his warranty when things let go......the engine
builder is not part of the forum.
I also know of another guy who could not claim warranty because "you cannot warrant Stupidity".
My recommendation is 1835cc thick wall 92s, 36 dells, CB2234, single springs, stock everything else, vintage speed, etc.
bitten by the bug..........several times
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on August 15th, 2013 at 06:45 PM |
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Simon,
check out my signature for my link to my 69 bug, built almost the identical motor your thinking of except its a 1776 and a Mallory dizzy. Picked the
car up yesterday and its great, nice torque and sounds really sweet with the vintage speed exhaust. looks like you wont get away without either a deck
lid stand off or a new deck lid. I have a stand of at the moment but will install a vented decklid soon.
If you would like more info on my costs etc happy for you to pm me, Vintage VW here in Sydney did a fantastic job and I couldn't be happier
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 vw54
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| posted on August 15th, 2013 at 07:22 PM |
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Hows the engine planning going
There a lot to choose from
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simohagz
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| posted on August 16th, 2013 at 07:41 PM |
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Planning is going well.
Car has been sent to the bodyshop for work to begin this week and hoping to get my first update tomorrow morning on progress so far.
Will most likely start a build thread at some stage soon to share some pics etc.
Looking forward to it!
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benny_acko
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| posted on October 14th, 2013 at 03:41 PM |
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Any update on this build simohagz?
1967 VW Beetle Deluxe
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on October 14th, 2013 at 10:54 PM |
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engines engines engines... and engines.
+1 for Stan's engines, never tried anyone else as I was happy with his results and incredibly pedantic machine work. A pretty impressive background
in racing bikes and cars with a list of records and aircraft engine experience /toolmaking sealed the deal for me; like you I shopped around a lot
before I went with him back in the mid 90s.... Back when I got my first motor from him he was in Sydney... and so was I
Experience:
1: I've had a base 1916cc with Kads (great all purpose sleeper engine, set and forget with Kads like they say) which went and went and went and went
(around Australia actually) until the car was t-boned by a woman in a Mitsubishi and written off. While looking for a donor car for the engine I
decided I wanted more top end than the base setup and asked Stan to rebuild it as a:
2: 1916cc 'steroids engine' with Weber 44IDFs (pilot jets can be annoying on them, but a beautiful performance carbie nevertheless and completely
different induction noise to the Kadrons) which went even harder until I had an unfortunate incident sliding and spinning backwards into a sandstone
wall. Obviously I wanted MORE while the engine was out, so I went for a:
3: 1916cc 'steroids twin plug' engine which was my final ultimate engine which did everything the base did down low and everything the steroids did
up high thanks to the way dual plugs cover the hotter cam and a shiny new alloy case because... it was shiny.. and new.. and I wanted something which
wasn't already 40 years old as a case. As a party trick I found you can idle along in second, roll up to about 2k rpm and then just slam the throttle
to the floor - even though the cam was only supposed to start getting really happy around 4k. Sweeet. I also played with Nitrous on this one, but in a
rare sensible and touching moment with myself I realised it was not a street legal setup and I was only using it as a streetcar. I had become the fast
and the dubious. The bottle came out and new manifolds went back on and it crossed Australia three times like this in a faded, battered looking old
beetle. It carried all my worldly goods across the Nullarbor to Perth where I new live a simple and spartan existence in a monastery surrounded by
goats and chickens. actually that last bit is crap.
4: Fast forward to now: In the throes of a complete resto, paint, electrical, exxy stereo, new gearbox, etc etc I WAS going to drop my ultimate number
three back in, but discovered to my horror that where I'd stored my engine for a couple of years was not weatherproof... and water had snuck down the
inlets into the cylinders seizing one of the pistons. So rather than shipping it back to Stan to have him just drop a new unrusted set of 94s back on
and giving it a quick pat on the bum I opted for experimental fun again (what can I say... I love building shiny new things if I have an excuse ) Enter the new 1956cc which is a one-off just for me. Time will tell if
I've strayed too far from the norm on this, but I reckon it's going to be awesome to finally be back on the road again with another 'new'
weapon... using many of the same old bits I started out with.
Whoever you go with I'm sure you'll have a blast, just do your research just like you've been doing and talk to your builder to make sure they're
building what you expect. Careful you don't catch the speed bug like me 
Who am I kidding. It's awesome to blow away doofing commodores at the lights.
let sleeping dubs lie
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cnfabo
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| posted on October 15th, 2013 at 12:45 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard
+1 for Stan's engines, never tried anyone else as I was happy with his results and incredibly pedantic machine work. A pretty impressive background
in racing bikes and cars with a list of records and aircraft engine experience /toolmaking sealed the deal for me; like you I shopped around a lot
before I went with him back in the mid 90s.... Back when I got my first motor from him he was in Sydney... and so was I
Experience:
1: I've had a base 1916cc with Kads (great all purpose sleeper engine, set and forget with Kads like they say) which went and went and went and went
(around Australia actually) until the car was t-boned by a woman in a Mitsubishi and written off. While looking for a donor car for the engine I
decided I wanted more top end than the base setup and asked Stan to rebuild it as a:
2: 1916cc 'steroids engine' with Weber 44IDFs (pilot jets can be annoying on them, but a beautiful performance carbie nevertheless and completely
different induction noise to the Kadrons) which went even harder until I had an unfortunate incident sliding and spinning backwards into a sandstone
wall. Obviously I wanted MORE while the engine was out, so I went for a:
3: 1916cc 'steroids twin plug' engine which was my final ultimate engine which did everything the base did down low and everything the steroids did
up high thanks to the way dual plugs cover the hotter cam and a shiny new alloy case because... it was shiny.. and new.. and I wanted something which
wasn't already 40 years old as a case. As a party trick I found you can idle along in second, roll up to about 2k rpm and then just slam the throttle
to the floor - even though the cam was only supposed to start getting really happy around 4k. Sweeet. I also played with Nitrous on this one, but in a
rare sensible and touching moment with myself I realised it was not a street legal setup and I was only using it as a streetcar. I had become the fast
and the dubious. The bottle came out and new manifolds went back on and it crossed Australia three times like this in a faded, battered looking old
beetle. It carried all my worldly goods across the Nullarbor to Perth where I new live a simple and spartan existence in a monastery surrounded by
goats and chickens. actually that last bit is crap.
4: Fast forward to now: In the throes of a complete resto, paint, electrical, exxy stereo, new gearbox, etc etc I WAS going to drop my ultimate number
three back in, but discovered to my horror that where I'd stored my engine for a couple of years was not weatherproof... and water had snuck down the
inlets into the cylinders seizing one of the pistons. So rather than shipping it back to Stan to have him just drop a new unrusted set of 94s back on
and giving it a quick pat on the bum I opted for experimental fun again (what can I say... I love building shiny new things if I have an excuse ) Enter the new 1956cc which is a one-off just for me. Time will tell if
I've strayed too far from the norm on this, but I reckon it's going to be awesome to finally be back on the road again with another 'new'
weapon... using many of the same old bits I started out with.
Whoever you go with I'm sure you'll have a blast, just do your research just like you've been doing and talk to your builder to make sure they're
building what you expect. Careful you don't catch the speed bug like me
Who am I kidding. It's awesome to blow away doofing commodores at the lights.
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Get one of Stans base engines,you will never have to touch it.....its more fun NOT having to fix or adjust or re do something on a engine......
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modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 978
Threads: 50
Registered: March 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Midwest, Westoz.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Old School Volksies!
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| posted on October 15th, 2013 at 09:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard...... across the Nullarbor to Perth where I new live a simple and spartan existence in a monastery surrounded by goats
and chickens.
actually that last bit is crap.
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I knew that was crap, coz there aren't any chickens left.
Sorta on the same track, and please feel free to ignore completely if it's thread-jacking, but whatever happened to the Hellbug guys? I have spoken
to Michael (?) years ago over the phone, but are they still building hotrods for a living, or have they too retired to a monastery on top of a hill,
and need big tall Baja's to get there?
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Peter Leonard
Super Moderator
Volatile
Posts: 1456
Threads: 52
Registered: April 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: shiny
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| posted on October 15th, 2013 at 09:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by modnrod
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard...... across the Nullarbor to Perth where I new live a simple and spartan existence in a monastery surrounded by goats
and chickens.
actually that last bit is crap.
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I knew that was crap, coz there aren't any chickens left.
Sorta on the same track, and please feel free to ignore completely if it's thread-jacking, but whatever happened to the Hellbug guys? I have spoken
to Michael (?) years ago over the phone, but are they still building hotrods for a living, or have they too retired to a monastery on top of a hill,
and need big tall Baja's to get there?
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Yeah I'm actually surrounded by goats and empty KFC buckets. I choose to ignore the thread-jacking on the grounds that further chat about it will
result in us straying further than those chickens already have.
Anyone else with first hand exp got any other builders to recommend for a solid, reliable streeter? **veers back on topic**
let sleeping dubs lie
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clyve
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 310
Threads: 93
Registered: February 19th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: painfully happy
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| posted on October 24th, 2013 at 12:28 PM |
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my bit
I am fairly new to this but a fitter by trade and having spent a bit of time on my rebuild I thought I was ready to put back together......I then
spent a few hours with Mat and realised I wasn't even close, the way he explained how he does it and the pride he takes is very rare in this day and
age.
Don't take this the wrong way mat but he reminds me of an old time village mechanic that really cares and stands by his work.
the man is a genius
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