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 boof2332
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 10:14 AM |
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Anthony,
How is your project coming along??? Did you ever find out what they will let you put in(13bt)?
Matt
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71superbug
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 07:49 PM |
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i rang the place up, and they said that here in perth there are no restrictions as to what motor can go in which car. assuming that the rest of the
car is capable of handling it. brakes, chassis, suspension .etc
So im guessing that means that it is possible.
and as far as the project, just finishing off the inside, getting the stereo install finished.
almost purchased a wolf 3d ecu, handcontroller .etc but then the deal fell through.
so im currently saving my pennys to do the suspension, then the brakes.
just finished paying off bills. so all the money i earn now is MINE and mine only from now on.
should skip along a bit quicker.
hows the subie running?
Anthony
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mountainbug
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 08:04 PM |
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heres a site that will build a arwsome type1 or tp4 for the beetle
got a price about 6 mths ago for a tp1
full turn key, 2007cc delivered 8k aud not including taxes
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/
[Edited on 8-3-2005 by mountainbug]
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71superbug
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 09:51 PM |
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how about transmission mate. what transmission you plan on running?
Anthony
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boof2332
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 10:33 PM |
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Taxes on that will be a bit...10%gst and 3% on parts for old cars...make sure you get them to specify that it is for a 60 something model, and not new
technology as such..then can be 15%. He may do tricky and write $2000 on the paperwork.
You will be assured of a pretty good motor....do you get the new, best improvement to aircooled motors, fan shroud?
Anthony...if you can, best do it fast before they change their minds..especially with all the young drivers over here being killing themselves due to
too much power and no skills.
Do not worry about the ecu till you have made the definite engine purchase...they are not interchangeable alot of the time..get the motor in first.
The subie is time constrained. All is fine except for the tuning. Been to busy to look at it for the last 8 days.I am going to Jaks tomorrow to copy
his ecu maps to my laptop and then load them into mine..and then all should be good.
Matt
[Edited on 8-3-2005 by boof2332]
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Golde60
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| posted on March 9th, 2005 at 06:50 PM |
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hey matt
what do you think about the 86 x 94 combo?
i reckon you're on the money with your idea of a big torquey engine rather than a grenade that only revs to 8k for a couple of months then kaboom!
i have been thinking that a 2387, with a tf1 aluminium case would do the job. not that its gonna happen anytime soon, just like the idea of building
what i can of my own engine (very slowly)
...................( O \ l / O ).....................
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boof2332
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| posted on March 9th, 2005 at 10:43 PM |
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Not many of them around..there was that white supercharged one in the U.K.
For along time people thought you couldnt go larger than 82mm crank...due to clearance issues. Having said that you can go 86mm as they all have to
det clearanced anyway.
Anew design aluminium case would be perfect. Would you still have to clearance the cam...ask the case supplier I guess.
That capacity with some specific ported heads with 42x37.5 nice chambers and exhaust ports with focus on airspeed and velocity, a real even cam like
the 121/125 or 122/125 that aircooled tecnology tweaks would be a real stump puller.
I had a 2180 in a blue 59 when I was 19 that had 40mm intake heads and 110 cam with 40 idf's and you could start off in 4th gear. Only revved to 5k
but was one of the most instantly responsive cars I have ever driven.
Who has time to be winding it out through the gears to get great performance when primarliy a street car/daily driver? A drag car is a little
different though.....
I might be going over in July for a seek and destroy mission, so I will keep you posted. I will be sending stuff from every postoffice I stop at.
Matt
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71superbug
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 12:29 AM |
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might be going where matt?
if i could get a beetle like the one in the quaiffe video for a not too high price i would go for it straight out.
only it seems a ZF lsd is better as it works both with decelleration and acceleration :p
Anthony
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Golde60
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 07:44 AM |
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check out the tf1 website
http://www.precisionalloy.com/pages/tf-1.html
says that 86mm stroke drops straight in, and roof is raised so chances are cam will do the same
looks like it has all the pros of the t4 al. case, but with the fact that you can use the cheaper (and greater choice) of t1 hi po parts
i have been dreaming about the possibilities for a while
also, check out genebergs website, heaps of tech advise there too
anyhow, food for thought.....
...................( O \ l / O ).....................
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Jeza
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 08:41 AM |
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ooohh aaaahh
Its got a deep sump too  which is what all the other cases seem to forget
about!
How do they get away with the lower cam? Bigger gear?
I remember another post that mentioned these cases, what was the cost of this sucker again?
Excellent info in this post guys, makes for really good reading.
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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GL1972
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 02:12 PM |
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Matt,
You almost described the engine I currently have.
82x90.5x5.4rods 9.0:1. 110 cam. 40 Dels
Runs out of puff at 5000 but pulls like a 14yo schoolboy.
I got 83hp on Sunday at CBB whilst running real rich (new engine). I think with the right venturis, ratio rockers and a better flowing exhaust it
should close in on 3 figures.
It will never be a race car but it is fun to drive.
Brendan
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Jeza
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 04:14 PM |
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83 horse is suprisingly low for that size engine.
However I guess it goes to show that its not all about Hp! Did you get any indication of the torque curve, I'd be keen to see that.
I'm coming to the conclusion that good strong torque makes for a much more fun car. If you have to rev the crap out of an engine to make good power
well that just makes for tiring driving and unwanted attention from the Police!
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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boof2332
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| posted on March 10th, 2005 at 10:47 PM |
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I would have liked to see the torque curve...nice and flat I bet.
What exhaust are you running...please tell me its not a thunderbird or similar.
The difference with a merged 1 5/8 with a magnaflow muffler or just a 2 inch pipe that goes around the side and back through a quiter, performance
muffler........one day I was killing everything I raced on the street and scaring people, the thing rusted out and I temporarily put on a tbird with a
2 and a 1/4 inch longer pipe and muffler.......I was only just holding off twin cam corollas.
IT HAS TO HAVE THE MERGED, PRYAMID SHAPED COLLECTOR. Without this all velocity and required backpressure dissappears....leaving the motor with no
torque, smoothness or top end.
Let me know if you need help finding the right one..the back section you can make yourself.
Matt
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GL1972
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 07:15 AM |
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Matt, Jeremy,
It is only a Genie exhaust and the carbs only have 32mm venturis hence probably the reason for the 83. It was also very rich (the LAMBDA never got
over 0.8) This was the first time on rollers since the engine build so this is my starting point.
Unfortunately no torque curve on the printout however the HP curve is pretty straight from 2000 rpm through to 4500 rpm where it made it's HP (56 to
83 HP respectively). I spose the HP over the rev range shows why it is fun to drive on the street where you rarely get over 4500 rpm (well I don't
anyway).
I deffinately will change the exhaust to a 1 1/2 merged header (yes I am in the market), with 36mm venturis, 1.25 ratio rockers and programmable curve
hall effect ignition (might put that on this weekend).
I hope this gives Gorn a different perspective on stroker motors. This motor was never built as a race car. I did the head porting myself (opened and
cleaned ports, matched manifolds, unshrouded valves, CCd) but there is much more I could do for top end HP.
One last thing is that you may think the cam is the wrong one for a 2110 (Engle 110) your right it probably is. I was originally going to build a
1915, bought the cam then decided on the 82mm crank. Decided to use it anyway.
Rightly or wrongly the reason I decided to go for the 2110 against the 1915 was for the driveability at low RPM. (this statement will probably be like
a red rag to a bull for the 1915 fans!)
Regards
Brendan
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VWCOOL
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 08:11 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Golde60
hey matt
what do you think about the 86 x 94 combo?
i reckon you're on the money with your idea of a big torquey engine rather than a grenade that only revs to 8k for a couple of months then kaboom!
i have been thinking that a 2387, with a tf1 aluminium case would do the job. not that its gonna happen anytime soon, just like the idea of building
what i can of my own engine (very slowly)
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It's the torquey engines that destroy cases and tend to die, not the 'revvers'. There is far less stress on components at high revs for a certain
power/torque figure that the same output at lower revs. Less loads at higher revs = longer life
But the new cases are much stronger and can probably handle a backyarder hacking into its ribs with a die grinder better than the stockers...:duh
[Edited on 10/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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GL1972
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 09:28 AM |
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Torquey engines by their nature are generally the result of rod ratio. Short rods + large stroke = extra sideways stress on barrels, rings, gidgeon
pins, etc and extra stress on crank and case. There is also the question of compression ratio which also puts stress on components. But having said
that it is all relative, a torquey engine with 9.0:1 that rarely goes past 5000rpm as opposed to one with less torque and 12.0:1 that revs to 8000?
What is the life expectancy of both. Hell I don't think anyone could work it out and argue that they are correct because there are so many other
factors such as quality of valve train, balancing etc.
If you read in posts above apparently my crank will self destruct in 632 kilometers time. I don't think so! I don't rev it hard enough to worry
about.
My 2c worth.
Brendan
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 09:39 AM |
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Simple physics (F=m x a) means that higher revs create higher acceleration forces on the bottom end, conrods and gudgeon pin, and consequently higher
forces. Its purely the amount of energy being generated (Ek=1/2mv^2).
Higher revs also means more wear, as the sliding components actually move further relative to en engine turning slower.
Why do F1 engines dies after 1 race ? it might have somethign to do with 18,000 - 19,000rpm.
Having said that, you can design and build a vw to run 7000rpm all day long (so to speak) if that is your plan from day 1 (just ask any pobjoy
customer). Additionally, you can build strokers to pull stumps out of the ground all day long too, its simply different aspects of the build that
become more important.
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Jeza
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 10:30 AM |
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Yeah I was going to reply and suggest the high piston speeds might cause grief but then I thought about it a bit more and realised if you build both
right then there is no reason why they both shouldn't last a long life!
I personally hardly ever drive past 4G in our 2.2 legacy as its got so much torque- it makes it really enjoyable to be able to pull out and over take
(on our opposing state highways) without have to rev the crap out of the engine- or wait for it to arrive in its power band!
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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boof2332
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| posted on March 11th, 2005 at 07:10 PM |
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My 2074 that I previously mentioned, I bought second hand off Kronk(muller) History was uncertain. as was the internals..it came complete with the
car..4 wheel discs, porsche alloys, irs pan etc.
I proceeded to do an average of 650km per week for 3 years, racing every car I came upon..until finally with a university students service record( a
couple of times)...she developed a #3 big end knock. I pulled it down, and it had 40x37.5 nice little port job..48 tri-jet dells, Welded crank(well
done)...not exactly sure of the cam, although it had 1.25 rockers...probably touch bigger than a 110. On a rediculous budget Andrew rebuilt it using
existing parts...new bearings and machine work from Bob Wymms for the Grand Total of $1100... I did another 30,000kms really hard then sold the
motor only, back to Steve Muller who stuck it in his Rally car and won races for 2 seasons without pulling it down.(Might be Craigs current car..not
sure..it had a 2275 that he blew?)
I do not think I will ever be so lucky again!
One of the keys to its life was it went hard down low, and I never had to rev it past 5k.
Matt
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VWCOOL
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| posted on March 12th, 2005 at 03:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Doug Sweetman
Simple physics (F=m x a) means that higher revs create higher acceleration forces on the bottom end, conrods and gudgeon pin, and consequently higher
forces. Its purely the amount of energy being generated (Ek=1/2mv^2).
Higher revs also means more wear, as the sliding components actually move further relative to en engine turning slower.
Why do F1 engines dies after 1 race ? it might have somethign to do with 18,000 - 19,000rpm.
Having said that, you can design and build a vw to run 7000rpm all day long (so to speak) if that is your plan from day 1 (just ask any pobjoy
customer). Additionally, you can build strokers to pull stumps out of the ground all day long too, its simply different aspects of the build that
become more important.
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Yeah, strokers can pull stumps out of the ground... but I reckon killing V8 Commodores is a lot more fun than gardening.. strokers often require
hacking the case to get them in, are often of dubious quality crank from some dodgy US company and of course piston speeds go up don't they...
The Cima/Mahles with thier huge gudgeons etc are so unstressed at 8000rpm.. as are stock (prepped) rods with a stock stroke. Stress/strain is not an
issue...
[Edited on 12/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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56astro
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| posted on March 12th, 2005 at 09:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
........, are often of dubious quality crank from some [edit] US company and ...
[Edited on 12/3/2005 by VWCOOL]
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Aint that the truth.
After speaking with Craig (my counsellor!) I think my stroker plans have been shelved.
I've also been thinking, it might be fun to drive around with an engine in the 1500-5000 RPM range and blow off some ricers,
but how much cooler it'd be to do it from 1500 to 8000 !!
The 69mm stoke and 137mm rods gives a rod ratio of 1.98 - hows that for engine longevity.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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boof2332
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| posted on March 12th, 2005 at 11:01 PM |
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There are quite a few 78mm cranks that require no clearancing at all, just pop them in(only takes a minute), and away you go...
My 2180 with full interior and 3 people in the car, still scared the shit out of everyone who went in it. My 1916 noticed when the tank was full and I
had been to All you can eat Yum Cha. Thats why I like torquey engines....
There is no reason why you cannot have the stroker rev to 8000, and still have lovely big testicles down low.
Just quietly, I cannot stop eating red tulip bunnies and humpty dumpty eggs..Iam having one or 2 daily...has anyone else got this problem?
Matt
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56astro
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| posted on March 13th, 2005 at 07:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Just quietly, I cannot stop eating red tulip bunnies and humpty dumpty eggs..Iam having one or 2 daily...has anyone else got this problem?
Matt
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:duh
Lost me there Boof!!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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boof2332
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| posted on March 13th, 2005 at 09:59 AM |
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For fear of people getting too serious over the stroker vs stock crank debate again, I just wanted to throw out a left field comment to show how
things should stay fun.
Matt
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56astro
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| posted on March 13th, 2005 at 10:14 AM |
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Oh, cool.
No worries.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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