| [ Total Views: 8791 | Total Replies: 196 | Thread Id: 519 ] |
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 vwrallycar
A.k.a.: Andrew Rankin
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| posted on October 10th, 2002 at 09:39 PM |
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hi ben thats well put. i must agree with you that yes 94's dont last as long as 90.5's. berg has been saying it for years!
the thin wall of the 94 barrel is its downfall, but with all that said i myself am building a 1916!
can someone tell me, is it true the 1916 is a revvy motor and a stoker is more of a torquey motor?
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56astro
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 07:48 AM |
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"94s are thin walled"???
I thought the walls of 94s were the same thickness as std.
As far as overheating goes, your oil temp guage will tell you your oil temp. Does anyone with a 1916 have overheating problems?
If you are considering engine combos, go and talk with those that have a really good reputation within the VW industry.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 08:22 AM |
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whoever says "94's are thin walled" obviously hasn't seen a 94mm cylinder.
My 1915 is definitely not a Pobjoy 1915, so I wouldn't plug his engines.
You'll see more difference in engine life between brands of cylinders, rather than between 94's and 90.5's. Don't buy cylinders
unless they are a decent brand (cima/mahle).
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gearboxless
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 10:26 AM |
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Out of interest has anyone put there their street trim 1915 on the rolling road? I got 45 depressing KW on the Stafford tune dyno (which could be
out). Maybe those 40IDF's with 28mm vents are to blame. This is with 42x37 mildly ported 044s and 1 5/8 merged exhaust.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 02:12 PM |
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That's a bit under 80HP at the engine. What sort of heads and cam are you running. fairly standard I would guess.
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fullnoise
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 04:25 PM |
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To Ben.
Okay my comments sound like a testimonial - fair enough. I'm not paid to say it. I haven't given Stan more than $1500 worth of business (so
I'm not trying to justify a purchase). I'm just impressed with what I've seen.
I'm impressed by what Stan does. I'm impressed after seeing his engines perform. I'm impressed that Greg Ward can drive from Sydney to
Queensland, race and drive back to Sydney with one of Stans race engines. I'm impressed that Stan uses a lot of standard parts successfully
against the beliefs of the rest of the vw fraternity. I'm impressed that Stan's philosophy makes Berg's teachings (I've read his
books) look like a joke. I'm impressed that I can take one of Stan's steroid engines and hose off a Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxter around
Wakefield park (that's a time of 1:18.2 seconds for the record).
I've seen you race at hillclimbs. Perhaps I will come to Newcastle and take your car for a drive. Maybe then I'll be impressed by you
too.
CYA, CT
esratrams
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fullnoise
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 04:28 PM |
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Bugger, another testimonial! Sorry guys.
esratrams
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jakriz
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 08:37 PM |
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94's????
G'day Ben,
I was going to update my little 1880cc engine over Xmas with 94's making it 2026cc. I can't really think of a cheaper power up option right
now.
I had 92hp at the wheels with Stans 30/70 cam & have now changed to an Engle K-8, I havn't had it back on the dyno but the 1/8th mile time
improved from 10.4 to 9.8, alittle difference, but I want more, especially since my superbug weighs 890kg & i have no plans to lighten it as
it's a street car & I want to keep it that way. So for more power I'm thinking 94's? My 90.5's have been perfect &
spotless when I pulled the heads off last , after 2 years of daily driving & about 12 supersprint days. What else can i do for more power? I was
going to have the 94's barrels ceramic coated & another special coating aplied to the pistons them selves to increase longevity & resist
heat. Equipped with Total Seal rings I thought they may have a fighting chance. My father Joe who is a Toolmaker & does all the machining for our
engines thinks that I am mad changing to 94's, just as a note.
The other option is to change the rockers to the 1.4's which the K-8 is suppose to be running with instead of the 1.25's, & also
updating my 45mm Dellortoes with the CB Performance spray bar kit which is suppose to help mid rnge tourqe. I also have the option of 48 ida's
but using them on a street car worries me a little as the driveability of my 45 Dells is outstanding.
Suggestions??
regards
Jak |
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jakriz
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 posted on October 11th, 2002 at 08:40 PM |
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94's
Oh , I also want to beat my mate CT! (LOL)
Jak |
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 09:41 PM |
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An Engle K8 with 1.25s should be approximately equivalent to a 110!
As for the thickness of 94 cyl walls - some people are missing the point. I have a set of 90.5s sitting behind me and I can look at where the stud
clearancing cuts into the "cylinder wall" part of the barrel. As I understand it, this is the cause of the "squaring" Berg talked
about - anyone with a bit of an understanding of metallurgy will see that such a CSA will push the barrel out of round as the temperatures are raised.
Don't get me wrong - I admire Stan and in younger years would have gone straight to him for the "bang-for-bucks" his engines provide -
but I'm now more interested in an engine that will be strong on the street for many years (and my financial situation is a little stronger,) so
I'm building a stroker. As for those who say they have "many miles" on their 1916s with no problems: I'd love to see some
reliable leak-down figures, along with the mileage on the engine. I'm not trying to knock anyone - but Stan, by his own admission, doesn't
clock up all that many street miles; so I'd love to see some data (against the piles of negatives) that such an engine can last as long as a
stocker (as well built strokers have been known to do.)
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jakriz
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 11:13 PM |
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94's
Thanks Ben, wouldn't mind coming up. Ct & I are running next Sunday at Eastern Creek & then thats it for the year which gives me heaps
of time to play with it over Xmas.
I'll give u a call next week sometime.
As for the lift, I've currently got 500thou with the K-8 & 1.25's, I don't think that a 110 has that much? Hope to have 535thou
lift or so with the 1.4's.
regards
Jak |
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 11:21 PM |
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If you measured that, you may have some dodgy rockers. Check your geometry - a K-8 should give .475 with 1.25 lifters, you could destroy your heads
in short order if it's that far out. The reason the K-8 equates more to a 110 with 1.25s is that it has gentler ramps in order to drive the
(minimum specified) 1.4 rockers.
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jakriz
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| posted on October 11th, 2002 at 11:27 PM |
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94's
The geometry is perfect. No equations or theories , just 500thou lift. 2 years on & still perfect, all the way to 7000rpm daily.
regards
Jak |
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Zenjoe
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| posted on October 12th, 2002 at 02:37 AM |
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I have built radical street 1776s and some built 1916s.
No matter what anyone says, given the same engine setup, the 90.5mm will last longer. But the 94s will last a long time if you are realy carefull
about the type case, compression, cooling etc.
If you want a fast car here is the setup that runs really well
94mm pistons and cylinders
counterweighted 8 dowelled crank
webcam 86c cam
cbperformance ultra rods
cbperformance street eliminator heads
weber 48IDA, 48 IDF or Dellorto 45DRLA carbs
Bosche 009 dist.
MSD ignition
With this setup at 9.5:1 Compression, my buddy is running high 13s in the quarter mile, and it is his only car. It is very reliable, and it is going
on 3 years with no problems. oh yea, it is pushing out about 170hp at the crank.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 12th, 2002 at 12:03 PM |
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The 94's are thick where it is needed near the top of the cylinder, as that is where all the heat is.
I find it silly people arguing about whether their 90.5's will last 10 yrs and 94's only 8 years when the cost of the cylinders compared to
the cost of an overall race engine is so small. It's trivial in the end.
People on here talk about "berg doesn't like 94's", well he didn't like the compression ratios that people here are running
either.
And lets face it not many people here are building race engines. I'm sure poeple who drive normally wouldn't notice an engine life
difference between the 94's and the 90.5's.
A pair of rear tyres on my car cost more than a set of 94's so I wouldn't care if I got slightly less life from 94's. I'd rather
have the increase in power of a 1915 over a 1776.
It's just my opinion. I just don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with 94's like some people make out. Especially when
there are so many good 1915 engined cars out there.
PS - Zenjoe, your car and site are very cool.
[Edited on 12-10-2002 by Baja Wes]
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Che Castro
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| posted on October 12th, 2002 at 02:57 PM |
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heh i guess if u want longevity and power just go ... Type 4 :thumb
Jon
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 14th, 2002 at 01:06 AM |
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For the sake of accuracy, Ben; I'm sure you realise that type 3s have greater issues with cooling than type 1s. 94s have been known to last more
than 15,00mi before the blow-by probs set in. 
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 14th, 2002 at 08:12 AM |
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Ben,
We are all entitled to our opinions, we have both put our opinions forward and now people can make their own decisions.
I had a 1776 with no brand pistons and cyl, and my 1915 with cima P&C, and I had to rering the 1776 well before the 1915 (still haven't yet).
Which was my point about it probably depends more on the brand than the size. It could've been a bad set of rings too.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 15th, 2003 at 08:56 PM |
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Maybe I can give some proven facts about 1916cc (94barrels 69stroke) .I currently run a Pobjoy 1916 in Hillclimb in NSW. I started with a base motor
with Kadrons and had a ball in 94' and 95' . Stan then built a motor to meet my request in 1996, a HILLCLIMB motor (not Drag) to win the
then dominated sport by Jeff Unwin from Hellbug. It is now 2003 and I have achieved the following:
1996 :NSW 1300-2000cc Hillclimb champion
1997 :NSW 1300-2000cc Hillclimb champion
1997:Australian Class Champion
1998: NSW 1300-2000cc Hillclimb champion
1998:Australian Class Champion
1999:NSW 1600-2000cc Hillclimb Champion
1999:Australian Class Champion
2000:NSW 1600-2000cc Hillclimb Champion
2000: Australian Class Champion
2001 DID NOT RACE(BORED,no competition)
2002 :NSW 1600-2000cc Hillclimb champion
During this time I also smashed (and still hold) all of the previous records at :
1:Canberra hillclimb
2:Wakefeild Park hillclimb
3:Amaroo Park Hillclimb
4:Eastern creek Hillclimb
5:Bathurst Hillclimb
6 Bullahdelah Hillclimb
7:Ringwood(Newcastle)both tracks
8:Grafton Hillclimb
9:Tamworth Hillclimb
10:King edward Park long track( Newcastle)
11: Dapto 3J class
I also won the Berg trophy in 99 as well as the Nambucca vw weekend supersprints. I have race against Ben Durie's car for most of this time and
have only come second once. Considering his car has been double entered at most events it is fair to say I have won well over 60 times against his car
over this period.(Not by tenths but seconds )
I find it hard to believe that an engine builder like Stan that has built well over 1000 documented (full warranty)1916cc and hundreds of other
combinations would be wrong !!
Stan has 1916cc in Various forms of AIRCRAFT,TYP3,Kombi's ,Beetle's,trikes and many other VW powered transport. Even the famous SEABUG was
powered by a 1916cc.
As for my opinion, well I'm racing this year, anyone care to join me .
Go the 94's:thumb
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56astro
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| posted on January 15th, 2003 at 09:46 PM |
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Well Craig, you've just solved one querry.
The 1999 Gene Berg Fastest Street Registered VW goes to .......
Craig Torrens - 1916cc - non turboed.
Only 1996 to go now.
BTW
If I have one of Stan's base 1916's does that mean I could be competative at hillclimbs?
Better get a roll cage fitted to the ol' 56 while it's at the panel shop!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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NigeType3
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| posted on January 16th, 2003 at 03:26 PM |
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I thought Gene Berg was the man.
Are you telling me that us aussies know better. I'm real interested in this as I realy want to build a 13s motor for my type 3 wagon I was even
thinking of a Berg 5 speed box.
Anyone got any advise?
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 16th, 2003 at 04:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by NigeType3
I thought Gene Berg was the man.
Are you telling me that us aussies know better. I'm real interested in this as I realy want to build a 13s motor for my type 3 wagon I was even
thinking of a Berg 5 speed box.
Anyone got any advise?
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I dont think any one in their right mind would put down what Gene had to say. BUT his hey day was in the 60's and 70's.....like 30-40 years
ago!
I have read his stuff and "how to Hot Rod..", and Mr Muir and drunk with Mr Holzl and....... learned a lot!
things change, petrols are REAL different. Heads have changed, cams now have split duration ........
A lot of what Gene said was true.....for then.
GB liked low CR now the go is for higher. People under stand it better and there has been 40 more years or trial and error
Gene was good, but you can now do better. No one is THAT good that it CANT be changed and/or improved! :thumb
Futue te ipsum!!!
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amazer
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| posted on January 16th, 2003 at 06:06 PM |
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The 5 speed is a complete waste of money. Even more so when you have ample power to pull tall gears. Who needs an extra lower gear. Just play around
with the ratios of the 4 gears you already have.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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56astro
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| posted on January 16th, 2003 at 06:48 PM |
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Nige Type 3
A 13 sec car you say .....
1996, 1/4 mile, 12.82 @ 102 mph, normally aspirated street registered.
Call either Stan Pobjoy (02 6650 9616) or Peter Richards (02 6565 0067) and that can be arranged.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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amazer
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 02:43 PM |
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For histoprical accuracy this is what has happened at Dapto since 1997 (Ben Durie and Grant Cook share the same car)....
1997: (called 2E 1301-2000cc)
1st Craig Torrens 27.46
2nd Grant Cook 28.28
3rd Ben Durie 29.35(only had 2 runs at the hill)
4th some gemini @#$%box 29.95
1998 (still called 2E 1301-2000)
1st Grant Cook 26.67
2nd Craig Torrens26.86
3rd Ben Durie 28.23
1999 (now called 3J 1301-2000)
1st Craig Torrens 27.21
the rest of the class consisted of datsun 1200's and a gemini and were well beaten.
2000 (now called improved production 1600 to 2000cc)
1st Grant Cook 27.86
2nd Ben Durie 28.48
3rd Greg Ward 28.70
4th n 5th Some silly escort with mid to high 29's.
In 2001 Greg was the only competitor in the class and ran 30.24.
I was timekeeper on all these occasions.
The official record is listed as the one from 2000 but I suppose you can say the moral record is 26.67 from 1998. In any case both belong to grant
cook.
If anyone is interested I can provide full championship results from the dapto rounds from 1978-1987 and 1997-2001 inclusive.
There was no hillclimb at huntley in 2002 due to track licence dramas.
BTW I have ran a 27.38 there with 94's. yeah OK they are type 4 94's with a turbo behind em but that part I will keep secret.
Re: Craigs boast of beating Jeff Unwin.
In what year did Jo roll the car and they stopped competing????
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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56astro
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 06:25 PM |
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Craig's car beat Ben/Grant's car 3 times.
Ben/Grant's car only beat Craig's car once.
I know who the clear winner is.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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amazer
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 09:24 PM |
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ummm no.
Torrens beat Cook/Durie once.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Che Castro
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 09:58 PM |
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meh whatever!
i think i will still want to build a 1916 as I dont need it to last me heaps long anyway.
is there enough space to run them on a 10mm stud case?
Jon
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 10:14 PM |
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Thats why I ussed 92's
I see some like 94 some hate em, some like 90.5's some hate em. I heard nothing but bad stuff about 92's from all sides. Musy have been why
I got them so cheap he he guess I should plan on a rebuild in the next few months then ...
No 10 mm studs will not clear with 94's you need to go 8mm studs. |
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 10:30 PM |
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Cool
I guess I will see how they go. The engine will not run hot in teh back of my Manx and with the 76 stroke should do it pretty easy. |
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