| [ Total Views: 4252 | Total Replies: 142 | Thread Id: 76859 ] |
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 polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 01:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
but you dont need 200hp atw....
subie is the best option if you want to do a conversion.................but ask the people who have to pay for someone to do the conversion what it
cost them, and i think you will find that a 110-120hp aircooled motor will cost far less to do.
Polak, you dont need anywhere near 150hp to keep up with a subie car on the track.............and i think you will find that a high performance vw
powered beetle would be quicker through winding road driving as well.
the subie powered at straight line work should blow the beetle away (and this should be evident at Warwick if the subie powered vehicles
go)..............but then looking at the video from Wakefield, with the cars going down the main straight this didn't really seem the case?
I would still like a subie powered vw in the garage.................but then the ford does a better job caring my kid around 
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pretty much what i was getting at, lighter setup so less power is needed, but i was over compensating :P i like both style of cars and again there are
pro's and con's of both setups. i guess this topic could be argued forever. for me its the choice to stick with the air cooled and see how far i can
go with it. i say stick to your style and do what makes you happy coz due to that we have such a large variety of cool cars in this country that we
can all appreciate.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 01:34 PM |
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Yeah, too many Suby conversions, that's why I put a Mazda V6 in mine. It sounds way better now than it did with twin 44IDF webers on the 1916. It
also goes faster, drives better, has digital climate control and cost less than a modified VW engine.
I am an Engineer, I like engineering. I find stock VW's boring. After going to shows for 15 years the stock cars all look the same. I like the
modified cars, I like to see what people have done. It can have a VW motor like Troy's crazy turbo type 3, as long as it's got something different
and worth looking at. And no-one can say watching Aaron's ~500HP 20B rotary powered kombi wheelstanding at the drags is boring.
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rose
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 01:39 PM |
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Yeah you get out in that shed. Does the shed have a heater you would need it today.
Hey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 03:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rose
Yeah you get out in that shed. Does the shed have a heater you would need it today.
Hey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I'm going outside now to work on my air cooled bug, so that when its finished I can get my subi bug going.
Steve
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mr burchill is busy putting removable rear apron back on
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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1303
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 04:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
I can see the benefits of having a subaru motor in your bug or bus, but I really feel that its becoming to common place! I think some people are
getting to far away from the VW hobby and perhaps should join a subaru club instead, I mean the reason most of us got into the hobby is for what the
car is, 'aircooled', and in my opinion watercooling and adding so much more weight to the back of a bug just seems wrong.
If you want performance there is so many reliable VW engine options out there, and you'll spend just as much as you would converting your car over to
pump water. Look at Craig Torrens and especially Greg Ward, greg drives his car to all his rounds and then takes out the class win!
I was at the supersprint to, and I did see how quick the Subaru powered cars were but to be honest they weren't that quick nor entertaining, you
couldn't hear them and in my opinion that black bug looked like more fun!
Sorry if this annoys the shit out of some people but that my 2 cents and I needed to get it off my chest.
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Glad you feel better that it is off your chest.
I am with Steve though, just dont look at them.....plain & simple.
now all I need to do is find a subaru car club...............
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NuZo
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 05:07 PM |
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i understand both view points.
TBH it doesnt bother me either way, i wouldnt mind owning one of both! that would be sick!!
i can see the reliability of a modern engine, and i can understand the reason for staying classic and keeping it air cooled.
Their both still beautiful!
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alien8
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 05:08 PM |
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Id love and electric engine in my Beetle and if I had the dollars I would do it. Air cooled electric.
Does it make it any less of a Vw? Me thinks not.
2c.
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RISKYBUG
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 05:55 PM |
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fight fight fight
i wanna see a fight
come on aircooled they are calling you slow
hey subi boy's (and girls  ) they are saying your crap 
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 Yogie
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 06:01 PM |
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I am wrestling with this choice as we speak. I want to get more power in our ghia when it is back on the road after restoration but not sure
which.
I love the look of the subi engine in this picture but the ej22 is only about 140hp and I figure it will cost me about 12k with all the engineering.
It will be quiet and reliable and all the other things new cars are.
On the other hand I can spend about 15k and get a reliable type 4 putting out about 175 hp without having to do any plumbing and will have less weight
as well. The downside is can I live with the carby noise all the time and even though it will be reliable, will it be as reliable with the type 4?
At this point I think I will be keeping it air cooled but I may yet change my mind so I can see both sides but in the end. I think it is what you want
as the owner that counts.
Yogie
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 06:04 PM |
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yea i agree... to many subarus...
need more toyotas :P
hahahah
but are u serious about ej22 only being 140hp? Thats suprising if so. so much work for power that still isn't all that extraordinary... well, i spose
its power to weight where it counts though.
Mind you, rather than 2.2ltr, car manufacturers have still achieved 200hp in a 2ltr N/a, and even 185hp in 1.8ltr n/a.
Mind you again, 90's tech motors are coming to almost 20 yrs old... 2 decades of development has gone a long way.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 06:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by roseHey your subie engine will be prehistoric by the time you get your car going lol
seen as mr birchall isn't around I though I'd slip that one in | Quote: |
Thanks Rose I needed that, well soon I will have Subaru people complaining abut using a vintage Subaru motor in a bug
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Yogie
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 06:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
but are u serious about ej22 only being 140hp? Thats suprising if so. so much work for power that still isn't all that extraordinary... well, i spose
its power to weight where it counts though.
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That is from memory but it won't be out by much. The turbos get MUCH more but I don't want a turbo. Still 140hp in a car that started with 50-60hp
is a big improvement in performance.
I just think for the few k extra it is worth it for the extra horsepower and no pipes having to be run from front to back. It is just the unknown
with the carby noise that is stopping me from committing to the type 4. I am going to see if there is someone going to the gold coast show next month
that has twin 44s or something that I can hear running to get an idea of how loud they are.
Yogie
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rose
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 07:06 PM |
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I'll take the oval out for a drive and record the lovely sound for you
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Yogie
I just think for the few k extra it is worth it for the extra horsepower and no pipes having to be run from front to back. It is just the unknown
with the carby noise that is stopping me from committing to the type 4. I am going to see if there is someone going to the gold coast show next month
that has twin 44s or something that I can hear running to get an idea of how loud they are.
Yogie
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Joel
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:14 PM |
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Yogie, there are ways to combat induction roar
a simple air box can pretty much completly eliminate it
they dont look as sexy as pair of standard weber filters but they do a better job filtering and keep the noise down
klubfest being just over a fortnight away im not sure if all the electrical for my conversion will be finished so i may be there with twin weber
induction roar following behind if you want to see how loud or quiet 40s are
ive been staying out of this topic cos as i said in my post i deleted last night its just flogging a dead horse
each to there own but what pisses me off mainly on the samba is these douche bag purists who wanna start a shit fight and voice there total dislike ,
like the car is no longer a VW anymore
i wasnt actively looking to convert my bug, just an engine i was very happy with came up at the right price
my main reasons for the conversion were
low maintaince - change the oil and filters and thats it
compare that to all the crap a vw needs frequently
easy and cheap replacement if it dies another engine is $500 away not $4k plus down the drain like a vw engine of similar power
i wanted to get away from carbs and go EFI
off the shelf kits to convert a type1 cost way more than the subaru conversion is gonna owe me and even if i built one my self still looking at $1.5k
plus
and all the other benefits liek an engine far smoother than a vw can ever be with that much power, twin cams and 16valves, self diagnostic, economy a
vw will never achieve and life span
cant really speak for the turbo motors but EJ22 easilly make 300,000kms with no internal work
vws wont make half of that without atleast a headjob
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cjbolt051
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:45 PM |
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the only opinion that really counts is that of the owner/user.. And they will choose to suit their own needs ..HP,noise,economy,racing,cruising etc..
and if YOU like your choice nobody elses opinion matters..we all get together to see what differant things are being done to motors and bodys etc and
sometimes you like something that has been done to a vw other times you wont appreciate it.. imagine how boring it would be if EVERYONE was the
same..i personally had a great time at both the supersprint (in my 1192 aircooled vee) & the show looking at all the dubs on show..
Winner best engineered vehicle 2011 @ Warwick & 2012 sydney
1/8 6.71 @ 100.9 mph Warwick 2011
1/4 10.17 @ 137 mph WSID
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reub
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 08:53 PM |
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- I've one of each and am happy with both....
Each to their own....
Reub
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:05 PM |
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On this topic, weighing up the benefits and what not... i always been curious,
If you run your radiator in the front, with lines in the back, how many ltrs of water must you fill your entire cooling system? is it huge with the
length?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by reub-revhead
- I've one of each and am happy with both....
Each to their own....
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What he said ^^^^^^
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Joel
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:26 PM |
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Chris most bug setups with rad up front take around 15L
stock subi is around 9L mark depends on the size of the coolant lines you use
the added benefit is with metal lines you get free increased cooling which means rad doesnt need to be so big
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trickysimon
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:33 PM |
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Doesn't help warmup times though 
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Joel
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| posted on May 29th, 2009 at 09:35 PM |
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make FA difference
thats what thermostat is for
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 07:51 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by trickysimon
Doesn't help warmup times though
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warm up is the same, if u know what u are doing
Jak
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 09:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Jak Rizzo
| Quote: | Originally
posted by trickysimon
Doesn't help warmup times though
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warm up is the same, if u know what u are doing
Jak
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if u select the right theromstat, it will keep the cooling system closed until your engine reaches the correct operating temp.
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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GTMac
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 10:49 AM |
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Polak, this is a great thread for you as a newby, look how many posts your getting in! 
I still cant agree with the knockers of shit load of power available on tap with a Suby, again and again and again reliability!
Craig yes 130hp-150hp aircooled Bugs were quicker than my 250hp Suby Fasty..........buts lets be honest, I cant drive for shit, have only driven
around that track 19 times and was able to get 1:18 (ohh and talking about main straight speed, you obviously didnt see me). Either give me more
practice or someone that can drive and I will bet that Suby powered Fasty is capable of those quick times.
Might also add that of the 1 Suby Fasty and 2 Suby Bugs, they were fully trim decked out, stereos etc etc, daily drivers, not near stripped clean like
many of the quick aircooled Bugs. So who is cheating now with the power to weight ratios.
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers. 
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn?
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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polak
A.k.a.: Adam Pawlowski
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 11:18 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by GTMac
Polak, this is a great thread for you as a newby, look how many posts your getting in!
I still cant agree with the knockers of shit load of power available on tap with a Suby, again and again and again reliability!
Craig yes 130hp-150hp aircooled Bugs were quicker than my 250hp Suby Fasty..........buts lets be honest, I cant drive for shit, have only driven
around that track 19 times and was able to get 1:18 (ohh and talking about main straight speed, you obviously didnt see me). Either give me more
practice or someone that can drive and I will bet that Suby powered Fasty is capable of those quick times.
Might also add that of the 1 Suby Fasty and 2 Suby Bugs, they were fully trim decked out, stereos etc etc, daily drivers, not near stripped clean like
many of the quick aircooled Bugs. So who is cheating now with the power to weight ratios.
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hey GTmac,
love your fasty, i was checkin it out the other day at the track, atleast i think it was yours :P and whats with the kiss? bit early to be drinking
hahahaha jokes. i say each to their own, i love all cars, esp ones with rediculous motors u dont expect. i got bitten by the bug, pun intended , and love the simplicity of the air cooled motor. best thing is seeing
people's faces just after u munched their new commodore and when u tell them your car still runs an aircooled vw engine after i finish this project, im thinking of looking into some sort
of an engine swap into a bus or something, but not sure which way to go, i guess ill see what ideas ill have at the time, still plenty to go on the
current bug.
adam
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 11:25 AM |
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Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
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amazeer
A.k.a.: Surly Duff
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 12:31 PM |
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Its not just the VW's infected with this dilemma. I've known the Bell's and their minis for 15 years. They used to have tricked up BMC engines that
went pretty damn hard. But they were forever being rebuilt. Now with the Honda VTEC, it gets is a fuel top up and the occasional oil change. Havent
won any friends in traditional mini circles but I dont think thats an issue for them.
I had a hot VW way back when there werent any hot subaru's. A hot subaru was a brumby on fire. It used to give me the greatest of all satisfaction to
hear the crowds and race losers talking about the "porsche" engine in my kombi. I guess they were partially correct, as a version of it was fitted
to a 914. I dont think I would have got the same enjoyment had it have been subaru/mazda/leyland/toyota/etc powered.
I wont have this dilema in my next race car though. I'll build a sister car to Bobs mini. That way I can piss the VW people off for being a traitor,
piss the mini people off for doing a bastard car, and piss the honda people off for taking one of their engines
 
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 01:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by amazeer
I wont have this dilema in my next race car though. I'll build a sister car to Bobs mini. That way I can piss the VW people off for being a traitor,
piss the mini people off for doing a bastard car, and piss the honda people off for taking one of their engines
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LMFAO!
They won't be pissed off to your face Chris, just on a forum.........
Jak
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GTMac
A.k.a.: Andrew
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 03:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
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I stopped looking at 180km/h cause turn 1 was coming up too fast
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers.
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn?
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 30th, 2009 at 03:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by GTMac
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi GTMac
Your car looked very fast down the straight, I think it was one of the fastest by sight. Did you happen to see the speedo or tacho?
Steve
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I stopped looking at 180km/h cause turn 1 was coming up too fast
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aww, come on mate - you have good brakes!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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