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 RodPenrose
A.k.a.: Rodney Penrose
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 02:24 PM |
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I have purchased 2 x 8 point roll cage kits today as they were so cheap . I have a pic of the finished cage and will have to up load it when I get
home . These are all bent and are to be assembled by the owner and conform with the class 11 off road specs in the US . I have purchased these after
seeing the aftermath of Greg's car and will install one in my own car . I should be able to offer these in kit form for around $ 340 per kit . These
are mild steel and I want to install it to make sure it will comply with the Aust. standards , ROD.
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 03:55 PM |
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Anyone spending money and time fitting a rollcage for ANY motorsport should make sure it complies with CAMS, ANDRA etc...... fitting a non complying
rollcage is a waste of money IMO.
use this as a reference:
http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen_req/GQ11_Schedule_J_Q210.pdf
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vassy66T1
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 05:36 PM |
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Craig,
Can you change your avatar?
That is very distracting 
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 matberry
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 09:09 PM |
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The popular class 11 cage in the states that you speak of Rod is likely to be one of these. Very popular with the baja crowd over there , even as a
starting point to then customise and add to. Second one is Empi
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Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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colonel mustard
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 11:01 PM |
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are empi cages just for looks....
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cnfabo
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| posted on June 3rd, 2010 at 11:50 PM |
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that cams roll cage regs is a bunch of japanese jiberish. for a home build "1 st time" seems confusing....
whats wrong with the cages posted???? are those regs writen by a lawyer or something...
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waveman1500
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| posted on June 4th, 2010 at 01:14 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cnfabo
that cams roll cage regs is a bunch of japanese jiberish. for a home build "1 st time" seems confusing....
whats wrong with the cages posted???? are those regs writen by a lawyer or something...
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The rules aren't that complex, so let's break it down.
The first part just tells you which types of racing needs what cage.
The main hoop has to be within 150mm in front or behind the driver's head, but not directly above it.
Also, in general you're supposed to have as few bends as possible and the main hoop should be as close to vertical as possible.
Your full cage needs at least 6 mounting points, which have to be a minimum of 3mm thick steel, must be a certain size and must be welded to the body.
If your cage bolts in then you have to weld 3mm steel plates to the back side of the panel, the same size as the foot of the roll cage.
Then it says the minimum material specs and tube size. Cold-drawn seamless or cold-drawn welded, with a minimum of 50mm OD and 2mm wall for the main
hoop and 40mm OD and 2mm wall for everything else. This part is usually where imported roll cages fail, as they may not comply with the material
standards, or even if they do, you may not be able to get the paperwork to prove that the material is up to spec. Alloy cages are definitely out, as
has been mentioned before.
The two cages which Matberry posted up just recently, would fail to meet CAMS specs for all sorts of reasons. Now, this is just my individual opinion,
and I'm not an expert, but to me, here's what's wrong with the multi-coloured Class 11 cage:
The biggest problem is in the fine print at the top of the picture, the tubes are too small, although they are chrome-moly so you might be able to get
them certified, but it would involve a lot of arguing and paperwork. Also, the picture doesn't show any proper mounting points where it attaches to
the body, so you would have to weld those on. Those weird tubes which seem to attach the front beam to the rear suspension should not be part of the
cage. The rear stays and front hoop are both terrible, as the front hoop is made up of several random pieces bolted together which is not allowed, and
the rear stays seem to be actually formed together out of a loop instead of mounting to the body, which kind of defeats the purpose of them. Also,
there is no diagonal cross-brace welded into the main hoop, which is now a minimum requirement.
Next, the other cage which is photographed. This one is nowhere near as bad, but it would still fail. The mounting feet for the main hoop and front
hoops are too small, and there is no diagonal cross-brace. Also, the rear stays are a little bit more bendy than CAMS likes them these days, it would
be better if they were just straight tubes welded between the main hoop and the rear floor. You might also get into trouble with the weird "knees"
which seem to have been bent into the main hoop for no adequate reason. It looks to me like the designers of that cage were trying to preserve rear
seat room rather than maximise safety, which is fairly silly. If a car has a rollcage then it should never have rear seat passengers anyway, as they
won't be adequately held in without bucket seats or harnesses, and they'll be killed if they hit their head on a roll cage bar without a helmet.
On the other hand, the photos of the black Bond Roll Bars cage shown on page 1 are perfectly fine, and would easily pass CAMS specs.
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RodPenrose
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| posted on June 4th, 2010 at 01:33 AM |
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Matt , the kits that I have purchased are pretty close to the frst image you supplied , but do not have the 2 lower bars that run from the front to
the back of the car . I am pretty sure there are steel plates supplied that mount the entire cage to the car , ROD .
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on June 4th, 2010 at 11:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cnfabo
that cams roll cage regs is a bunch of japanese jiberish. for a home build "1 st time" seems confusing....
whats wrong with the cages posted???? are those regs writen by a lawyer or something...
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Its basic engineering principals...........to stop "1st time" dodgy home build cages from entering a track and potentially doing more harm to the
driver than good.
Some people seem to think that welding in a few bars makes the car safer...but this is NOT always the case. As with all safety equipment we are lucky
we have CAMS to set the standards.......this makes motor racing safer for all.
For the people who find the rules confusing , then its best to get someone who understands them to sell or build you the cage.
Thanks waveman1500 for your comments, you're spot on.
Now back to the topic of a group buy from "BOND" cages..........not inferior OS products that wont comply.
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JVLRacing
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| posted on June 4th, 2010 at 01:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cnfabo
that cams roll cage regs is a bunch of japanese jiberish. for a home build "1 st time" seems confusing....
whats wrong with the cages posted???? are those regs writen by a lawyer or something...
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Its basic engineering principals...........to stop "1st time" dodgy home build cages from entering a track and potentially doing more harm to the
driver than good.
Some people seem to think that welding in a few bars makes the car safer...but this is NOT always the case. As with all safety equipment we are lucky
we have CAMS to set the standards.......this makes motor racing safer for all.
For the people who find the rules confusing , then its best to get someone who understands them to sell or build you the cage.
Thanks waveman1500 for your comments, you're spot on.
Now back to the topic of a group buy from "BOND" cages..........not inferior OS products that wont comply.
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VERY VERY TRUE!
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mactaylor
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| posted on June 6th, 2010 at 06:50 AM |
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there is a cnc mandrel bender down this way if anyone is interested find me a cage to copy and ill get a price! maybe one of rods class11 cages?
update to cams specs, should be no probs and cheapish.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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colin
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| posted on June 6th, 2010 at 03:04 PM |
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I have read this whole post and there seems a recuring theme, price.
Gents how much do you value your life?
Forget price, think quality, you life may depend on it!
Cheers Col
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HappyDaze
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| posted on June 6th, 2010 at 03:17 PM |
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Wise words there, Colin
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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colin
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| posted on June 6th, 2010 at 03:46 PM |
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Greg, i told dad about your unfortunate accident at Wakefield.
He was glad you were okay, then said some wise crack about dak daks, you know what he,s like.
Cheers Col
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HappyDaze
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| posted on June 6th, 2010 at 03:54 PM |
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Tell him I spoke to Warren Weldon last week - he wasn't game to make any wise-cracks, as he up-ended a couple of 'early' Holdens! They used to
break their rear axles, with nasty results!
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 21st, 2010 at 12:16 PM |
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Hi
Richard at V Force has got a group buy price from Bond,
6 point bolt in cage $850
Extras like hip bars seat belt bars $120
Five people are needed to get this price.
1/2 cage prices to follow
Steve
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johny rotten
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| posted on June 21st, 2010 at 10:12 PM |
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that is very cheap
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 11:28 AM |
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Hi
Group buy price from Bond, for bolt in 1/2 cage $635
Five people are needed to get this price, I have 2 people wanting one now, we need 3 more.
Steve
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sander288
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 07:52 PM |
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1303 steve, I know that you might not be able to help but can you give us an Idea of the design of the 6 point cage?
and whether it is CAMS approved (i'm assuming yes but assumptions are the mother of all .....)
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sander288
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 07:53 PM |
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I'm actually heading out to see Bond tomorrow morning, so hopefully I can compare a quote for a built cage to the group buy
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 08:00 PM |
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Hi
I'm not sure of the design of the 6 point cage, were only going 1/2 cage, they are CAMS approved.
What we want in the 1/2 cage is a hoop, 2 bars going back to the parcel area and diagonal going from the drivers head back to parcel tray, no cross
brace as then you cant get the seat far enough back.
In most forms circuit motorsport if the car has rego it doesn't need cage at all, with ANDRA its needed below a certain ET.
Steve
ps, let us know about the prices
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bat69
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 08:29 PM |
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I think you will find the rear legs will go to the wheel arch and not the parcel shelf. In order to be CAMS approved the rear legs must be straight
and can not mount to the parcel shelf or have a bend in them like the cages of old. The price quoted for the 6 point cage and side bars is the same
price I paid for a 6 point cage for my old bug.
White Knuckle Racing Team
"Drive it like dirt"
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 28th, 2010 at 09:05 PM |
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Hi
I meant to say the rear parcel area/wheel arch. The old cages used to go onto the panel below the rear window, you needed to slip the nuts in through
the vents below the rear window.
Steve
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sander288
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| posted on June 29th, 2010 at 07:58 PM |
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Ok, so saw Allan today, the price for a full cage was $950, and $137.50 for either side bar or harness bar.
Was pretty happy with the quote, and he told me that his standard cage was a little bit different and couldn't quite work with my car, but for 68 up
it would be fine.
To have the cage installed by him it takes 1 day, and $2500 or there abouts. If you want to bolt it in yourself he measures and cuts it all to size
and then marks up on the body where to drill, and supplies all the high tensile bolts etc...
So there you go, I think i'm going to go with this quote, as I want the cage soon and can't wait for more people to buy. as well I get what I want
and not a compromise,
it is a good point you make about the cage running diagonally behind the seats with moving the seat back, I hadn't thought of that but i'll need the
flexibility!
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HappyDaze
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| posted on June 30th, 2010 at 08:28 AM |
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Got in early and now have my (Bond) roll cage, It is a heap of heavy gauge tube at present, as I will be fitting it myself.
Allan and Peter were very helpful, and I am following their advice re. installation, mounting points, etc.
One important thing to factor into your valuations is ------How much do you value your neck
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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westi
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| posted on June 30th, 2010 at 01:23 PM |
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has anyone got pic's of there cages from bond.
it is usually easier for people to make up there mind's after seeing the product.
down sharon.
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hellbugged
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| posted on June 30th, 2010 at 02:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
has anyone got pic's of there cages from bond.
it is usually easier for people to make up there mind's after seeing the product.
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my post on first page Westi.......all "bond" cages
orange car would be as per current, but can gather whole shape from all the pics i've put there
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on July 13th, 2010 at 07:31 PM |
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Sander and HappyDaze any chance you have pics that include your new setups...??? Pls
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HappyDaze
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| posted on July 13th, 2010 at 07:56 PM |
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Awww, don't rush me - I'm still fitting/welding mine in. Besides,
while I'm busy working on the 'new' No. 8, I can't learn to do the 'pics' thing
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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