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 BRUTUS
A.k.a.: et tu, Brute
Officially Full-On Dubber
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Mood: ACE 30 FOR SALE!
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| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 07:34 PM |
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The level of Zn in Pen. HPR 30 is 0.11% (as advertised, Nov. '11) -- and on Prod. Data sheet (at Sept. 2012), the other values may be for another
product?
It is also 25W-60 SAE, which may be a bit thick, but OK for worn/large clearances. It is now SM, and is friction-modified. All mass-market products
change quite often to chase the latest market/ing trends, they "have to".
There is an array of "good" oils for various situations, loads, temperatures and motors, and what suits one might not suit another.
Apparent temperature variations within the one motor are probably mainly due to viscosity change/issues - e.g. too thick AT the particular working
temp. to flow nicely to cool... Zn etc. levels (within reason) shouldn't affect temp. that much. Visc. of HPR 30 is 24cSt at 100C. ACE 30 & 40
are thinner at 15 & 20cSt respectively, so may flow, & cool a little better...
The level of Zn in ACE oils (30 & 40 etc.) has always been 0.11%, or 1100ppm. P (phosphorus) is 0.10% or 1000ppm. (There is an "optimum" level
for Zn, P, S ... and all things... i.e. too much of anything can degrade other properties, or may be potentially 'harmful' in unexpected ways.) No
responsible oil maker will EVER officially advise the use of an extra additive to their oil. Can you guess why?
QPL lead me to believe the ACE oils (30 & 40 in particular) were made primarily for high temperature performance/withstand... thinking 'Kombi';
'Type 3' etc.
Anyway the experts at QPL told me they did not set out to make their ACE oils the absolute highest in anti-scuff (Zn) additives. [I suppose thatcould become an interesting 'race'!]
BP's 'GTX' is not particularly suitable for air-cooled engines, may be OK for cool-running engines & low loads. Most friction-modifieds,
semi-and full synthetics, and mineral grades with lower-than-necessary W numbers are also not good for engines that are run only occasionally. These
thin (at ambient temp.) oils run off on storage, allowing corrosion.
Just my $20 worth (inflation - sorry!)
Too much Zn, P, S, or whatever can degrade high-temperature performance.
If you add significant extra ZDDP -- or many other other 'anti-wear' additives -- to any commercially-available engine oil, make sure you change it
ON, or Before, the time due.
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.
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colin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 08:20 PM |
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I have just read this thread and find all the comments very interesting.
Engine oil preference can be a personal thing and create it,s far share of controversy.
The below image shows a bearing taken out of my hillclimb engine after a full years hard racing. As you can see it,s perfect.
The engine has a rev limit set at 7700rpm for most events and the occasional 8000rpm for Grafton and Ringwood. Keith rebuilds my engine and allways
uses Brad Penn running in oil.
I then use valvoline VR1 racing Oil 10w-40. This oil is off the shelf semi synthetic and not to expensive. It,s zddp is from memory around 1280ppm.
Another hot topic that gets a few opinions going is oil pump size.
My engine turning high rpm uses a 23mm oil pump. Yes that not a typo, 23mm, Has stacks of oil pressure and never red lights out of corners.
Is Keith a very good engine builder, no, he,s the best, are oil pump sizes to big in some applications, yes.
Just my personal thoughts.
Cheers Col
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
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| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 10:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
I have just read this thread and find all the comments very interesting.
Engine oil preference can be a personal thing and create it,s far share of controversy.
The below image shows a bearing taken out of my hillclimb engine after a full years hard racing. As you can see it,s perfect.
The engine has a rev limit set at 7700rpm for most events and the occasional 8000rpm for Grafton and Ringwood. Keith rebuilds my engine and allways
uses Brad Penn running in oil.
I then use valvoline VR1 racing Oil 10w-40. This oil is off the shelf semi synthetic and not to expensive. It,s zddp is from memory around 1280ppm.
Another hot topic that gets a few opinions going is oil pump size.
My engine turning high rpm uses a 23mm oil pump. Yes that not a typo, 23mm, Has stacks of oil pressure and never red lights out of corners.
Is Keith a very good engine builder, no, he,s the best, are oil pump sizes to big in some applications, yes.
Just my personal thoughts.
Cheers Col
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Yes, I have read where the standard size oil pump on a beetle engine is large enough and larger pumps are NOT needed.. even on larger engines..
can't remember who wrote it..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
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| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 10:52 PM |
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Sander288
My engine temp hovers 95C to 100C most of the time at 100KMH at around 23C + outside temperature
I have just opened My engine lid top for summer so hopefully the gauge will Not get over 100C although the dipstick temperature Light hasn;t flashed
or come on..
LEE
oil sender is located where the type 3 engine dipstick was..
with Castrol GTX 20w/50 oil $28-00 at BIG W 5 litres
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on September 25th, 2012 at 10:23 AM |
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I have also pulled down a few engine that have run on penrite HPR 30 only and have found the engine's to be in very good condition also, it's also
how you maintain the the engine overall that contribute's to it's life span
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
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Registered: August 31st, 2002
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Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
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| posted on September 25th, 2012 at 06:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I've had customers comment on the improved engine quietness and oil life when they have switched from Penrite to ACE, similarly Castrol to ACE. I've
been using ACE for around 5 years now, even pulled down a few engines that have been on it, one of which exclusively used ACE and bearing, cam and
lifter condition has been superb. I don't like Penrite as I believe it to be excessively thick for it's rated viscosity which IMO impedes piston and
bearing cooling.
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many people think thick is better...
but a VW air cooled engine is also cooled by the oil...
so, it has to flow thru the engine and fast to keep everything cooler..
so 20w/60 isn't a good move...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on September 25th, 2012 at 06:58 PM |
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I have had no problems with the HPR30, i have run that in a varity or engines for about 20 years. so i am quite sure that if there was a problem it
would have surfaced by now.
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sander288
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on October 22nd, 2012 at 10:39 AM |
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Hi everyone;
Just got off the phone with a Castrol tech regarding their Edge products; as their isn't sufficient information online to compare directly with the
Penrite products in terms of zddp & phos. I'd thought I share exactly what he said as it's good not be reading hearsay about products so that we
can all make an informed choice whatever brand we decide.
Edge 25W-50 - Mineral
zinc: 1000-1240 ppm
phos: 900-1130 ppm
Edge 10W-60 - Synthetic
zinc: 960-1110 ppm
phos: 880 - 1000 ppm
He recommended the 25w-50 for most applications but suggested if cold cranking is a common thing, like New England, Snowy Region, Canberra etc.. then
the synthetic would be a better choice, although he was biased he did say both are suitable for a tappet/pushrod engines; personally if I was running
the synthetic I'd be putting in some additive; or just use Penrite HPR 15 if I had to have synthetic.
Cheers
Shaun
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steve burgess
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| posted on October 26th, 2012 at 09:32 AM |
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Iam about to try some cam shield http://www.cam-shield.com/in my new motor.
It is available from Pier Side Parts.
1956 judson supercharged oval
1975 kombi camper
1976 kombi panel van
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 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
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| posted on October 26th, 2012 at 10:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by steve burgess
Iam about to try some cam shield http://www.cam-shield.com/in my new motor.
It is available from Pier Side Parts.
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Yep, JPM sells the camshield with his cam packages too, I've been using the assembly lube on most builds for a few years with no cam/lifter problems
IF the valve train is up to speed.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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57oval
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| posted on October 26th, 2012 at 05:48 PM |
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Pentrite Classic Light 30wt oil
1610ppm zinc
1440ppm Ph
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/CLASSIC%20ENGINE%20OILS%20Feb%202012.pdf
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matberry
Super Moderator
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| posted on November 24th, 2012 at 04:14 PM |
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Here is the link to the LN Engineering tests. A very good article, I've read this a while back but recently sent to me by the chemist who formulates
ACE (thanks John). It mentions in here, more isn't always better when talking ZDDP (amongst other things).
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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bugzla
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| posted on November 24th, 2012 at 05:41 PM |
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im going to be using penrite 15w 50 10 tenths syn once i get the turbo going ill be using an oil filter setup as well so i get the most out of the oil
its rated at 1250 zinc rating
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