| [ Total Views: 7414 | Total Replies: 27 | Thread Id: 98414 ] |
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 psimitar
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| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 11:47 PM |
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KBS vs POR15
So due to my possible rust issue after using KBS I have done a bit of digging on my floorpan and also on the internet and thought would share with you
my findings.
So we'll start with KBS. It's the Oz version of POR15 and made in Oz as far as I'm aware. I painted my Beetle floorpan in the stuff a few years
back after shotblasting the pan and using the pre-paint guide of degrease and rust treat.
All went well on the bottom but the top got solvent flash off bubbles trapped in it due to the summer heat in the arvo 
But apart from not looking smooth it seemed fine until I came to clean the floorpan this week ready for sound deadener. As per my previous tech thread
it apeared as tho I had small rust spots appearing but the underside is perfect. So today I had at it with 80 grit paper in the sander. This KBS is
like poop to a blanket as even the 80 grit took some to get through it. I also individually sanded some of the 'rust spots' and they smoothed out
without breaking through the full depth of the KBS.
So, conclusion. My rust spots appear to have been made by metal particles from grinding and so I can conclude that KBS is some real touch shit 
Now for POR15. I looked into this as was thinking I may have to shift brands if the KBS was at fault. Anyhow, from my online investigation it appears
there have been a fair few instances of people having rust begin under the paint surface even after following the prep guide correctly. This put me
off and so I just thought I'd let people know that KBS seems to be very good and it is cheaper than the imported POR15 so do your research people and
made an informed choice
Oh, and a third option is Epoxy Mastic 121. An industrial strength primer/sealer/topcoat. Resistant to almost all automotive chemicals and pretty hard
wearing/chip resistant. So this could be a good option too. 
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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vlad01
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| posted on August 18th, 2012 at 10:28 AM |
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typical cause of rust reoccurring is poor condition in which the paint was applied, probably too much humidity and or cold or the metal wasn't dried
long enough before applying the paint.
I typically heat the object and paint before applying any paint these days and I get perfect adhesion I also bake til its cures. or for some paints
that don't like baking at least a dry warm-hot day works well.
I treat surfaces like NASA would, controlled environment, clean room, gloves, temperature ect. 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 18th, 2012 at 11:21 PM |
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I'm very cautous with my prep work too but was unlucky that the humidity had risen during the day when I did the top of the pan and hence the
microbubbles.
Still as KBS is Australian and cheaper than POR15 then it helps give people a better choice of possible products to use. POR15 was the first on the
mass DIY market just like Dynamat and people have just gone with it through popularity of use.
Now they have the option of a local product that's has good, if not better, as POR15 and will save them a bit of cash
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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MickH
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| posted on August 19th, 2012 at 10:13 AM |
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I used Barmastic on my buggy - wouldn't touch POR15 again as it's part the reason why i had to replace my pan.....the Barmastic was as tough as
nails,flexible and prep was minimal. I figured if it was good enough to use on oil rigs it was good enough for muh buggy
tssnq.com.au
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vlad01
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| posted on August 19th, 2012 at 01:04 PM |
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What I would love to get is the master series pretty much every one uses in the states, its 2 pak, finish is better than POR15 or KBS and is easier to
use, sticks better and has know to have less sensitivity and problem with prep.
seen quite a few guys on the samba go with POR15 and then switch to master series without looking back.
problem is you can't get it here
http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vlad01
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| posted on August 19th, 2012 at 01:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
I used Barmastic on my buggy - wouldn't touch POR15 again as it's part the reason why i had to replace my pan.....the Barmastic was as tough as
nails,flexible and prep was minimal. I figured if it was good enough to use on oil rigs it was good enough for muh buggy
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looks good, though its not UV resistant. Might try this one out.
I think the master series is the only one inherently UV proof without needing a top coat of another product? well as far as I have observed.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 12:17 AM |
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Barmastic sounds like epoxy mastic? Am I right?
Vlad, unfortunately we in Oz are limited with new products that Europe and USA have easy access too.
I'm gonna see how my rub down goes and if no surface rust is found under the KBS then another new coat of KBS will be applied cos trying to track
down a good epoxy mastic or flexible hard wearing coating for metals is a frickin pain in Oz
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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nils
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| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 06:21 AM |
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Hey psimister, where do you buy your KBS? Been looking for a replacement for POR15
I used quite alot of por15 products on the hq about 7 years ago now , and can rate it too well. So am very curious to give KBS a try
Quit calling rust patina
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Governor
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| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 09:27 AM |
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I have used both and for the last resto I used Rust Bullet
POR is not UV stable and is a pain to top coat.
If doing it all again it would be Rust Bullet as the KBS didnt coat as good, thats the only complaint.
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Smiley
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| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 10:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by nils
Hey psimister, where do you buy your KBS? Been looking for a replacement for POR15
I used quite alot of por15 products on the hq about 7 years ago now , and can rate it too well. So am very curious to give KBS a try
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Here Nils
http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/
There is a link up on the top bar that says 'Locate a Reseller'
Smiley
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vlad01
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| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 10:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Barmastic sounds like epoxy mastic? Am I right?
Vlad, unfortunately we in Oz are limited with new products that Europe and USA have easy access too.
I'm gonna see how my rub down goes and if no surface rust is found under the KBS then another new coat of KBS will be applied cos trying to track
down a good epoxy mastic or flexible hard wearing coating for metals is a frickin pain in Oz
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a lot of these products have a shelf life, so thats pretty much the reason we don't see many of them here and the limited market too won't help.
the stuff would go off before it sold.
hey did you use a moisture trap and line filters? if not that would be your most likely cause of the problems. Moisture cure epoxy and urethanes
hate any traces of moisture in the air line.
perhaps if enough people did a group buy to make he HAZMAT fees as transparent as possible we could import a bulk lot of quality produces fresh from
the manufacture?
An idea perhaps?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 12:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by nils
Hey psimister, where do you buy your KBS? Been looking for a replacement for POR15
I used quite alot of por15 products on the hq about 7 years ago now , and can rate it too well. So am very curious to give KBS a try
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2 places in Brisbane or online from KBS direct but postage is cheaper I think from the local guys.
Anyway, Qld Paint supplies in Salisbury or Harts Industrial paints in Geebung. Should be about $60 for a litre. A 4L does work out a good bit cheaper
if you need to do more than just the floorpan i.e. framehead, framehorns, irs arms, etc.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 12:24 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Black64
I have used both and for the last resto I used Rust Bullet
POR is not UV stable and is a pain to top coat.
If doing it all again it would be Rust Bullet as the KBS didnt coat as good, thats the only complaint.
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Heard of Rust Bullet. Where'd you get it from and what country makes it?
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 12:32 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Barmastic sounds like epoxy mastic? Am I right?
Vlad, unfortunately we in Oz are limited with new products that Europe and USA have easy access too.
I'm gonna see how my rub down goes and if no surface rust is found under the KBS then another new coat of KBS will be applied cos trying to track
down a good epoxy mastic or flexible hard wearing coating for metals is a frickin pain in Oz
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a lot of these products have a shelf life, so thats pretty much the reason we don't see many of them here and the limited market too won't help.
the stuff would go off before it sold.
hey did you use a moisture trap and line filters? if not that would be your most likely cause of the problems. Moisture cure epoxy and urethanes
hate any traces of moisture in the air line.
perhaps if enough people did a group buy to make he HAZMAT fees as transparent as possible we could import a bulk lot of quality produces fresh from
the manufacture?
An idea perhaps?
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I applied by brush to make sure no additioanl moisture got in there altho KBS uses the moisture in the air to cure, presumably from the product info.
My issue was just a case of being too hot and humid come the late arvo and this caused the icro bubbles.
I've sanded down one side so far today and all the rust 'halos' sand out before hitting metal with smooth paint so looks like microbubbles plus
rust 'halos' caused from grinding too near the painted surface. Least the new coat should come out nice and flat this time even if a few patches
will need doing on the nice underside. Hey ho
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Governor
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 08:34 AM |
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http://www.rustbullet.com.au/
I found this to be the easiest to use and yes i have also used POR and KBS
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vlad01
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 06:57 PM |
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Yes thats one they use in the states a lot. I heard good things about it.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 10:10 PM |
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Shame rust bullet only comes in one colour and then requires a topcoat. KBS comes in different colours but if in sunlight will require a UV stable
topcoat. Otherwise it yellows the colour but KBS say it doesn't affect the coatings structure. Only time would tell on that one 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Governor
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| posted on August 21st, 2012 at 10:24 PM |
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It doesnt need a top coat at all, it does only come in grey but is UV stable and wont discolour.
Rust Bullet requires little or NO surface preparation prior to application. Rust Bullet Products can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed over clean or
rusted metal, as well as, many other substrates. No additional products such as etching primers or UV resistant topcoats are required as Rust Bullet
has excellent adhesive properties and is UV Resistant. The surface protected with Rust Bullet will be scratch resistant, chip resistant, and chemical
resistant. If the finished surface becomes chipped, rust will not spread and a simple touch up will re-seal the chip, providing fast, easy, low-cost
maintenance, and continued protection. When properly applied, Rust Bullet’s unsurpassed rust and corrosion protection is guaranteed to last 10
years.
Because Rust Bullet is Resistant to Ultraviolet Light, applying a topcoat is not necessary. Rust Bullet is metallic gray in color; if a different
color is desired, wait 24-48 hours after the application of the final coat of Rust Bullet before applying a topcoat of your choice. Rust Bullet’s
BlackShell® Gloss Black Coating is formulated specifically as the optimum topcoat for use with Rust Bullet and Rust Bullet Automotive, providing the
ultimate combination for rust prevention and surface protection. BlackShell® also provides outstanding protection when used as a standalone coating.
BlackShell® has excellent rust inhibitive, abrasive resistant properties, resulting in a black glossy ultra smooth finish.
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psimitar
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| posted on August 22nd, 2012 at 01:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Black64
It doesnt need a top coat at all, it does only come in grey but is UV stable and wont discolour.
Rust Bullet requires little or NO surface preparation prior to application. Rust Bullet Products can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed over clean or
rusted metal, as well as, many other substrates. No additional products such as etching primers or UV resistant topcoats are required as Rust Bullet
has excellent adhesive properties and is UV Resistant. The surface protected with Rust Bullet will be scratch resistant, chip resistant, and chemical
resistant. If the finished surface becomes chipped, rust will not spread and a simple touch up will re-seal the chip, providing fast, easy, low-cost
maintenance, and continued protection. When properly applied, Rust Bullet’s unsurpassed rust and corrosion protection is guaranteed to last 10
years.
Because Rust Bullet is Resistant to Ultraviolet Light, applying a topcoat is not necessary. Rust Bullet is metallic gray in color; if a different
color is desired, wait 24-48 hours after the application of the final coat of Rust Bullet before applying a topcoat of your choice. Rust Bullet’s
BlackShell® Gloss Black Coating is formulated specifically as the optimum topcoat for use with Rust Bullet and Rust Bullet Automotive, providing the
ultimate combination for rust prevention and surface protection. BlackShell® also provides outstanding protection when used as a standalone coating.
BlackShell® has excellent rust inhibitive, abrasive resistant properties, resulting in a black glossy ultra smooth finish.
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That's what I meant by needs a topcoat as only comes in one colour and so any touch ups required anywhere I've not sanded will stand out.
I only have so much money to play with and the KBS will obviously match what I already have.
Shame they don't sell pigmentation pots so you can have it the colour you wish straight out the can.
Also, they've not gotten back to me on pricing and a company that takes more than a few days to get back to a simple email enquiry doesn't rate high
in my books even if the product is good.
I would like to try it but what with mismatching the unscathed trans tunnel I'm leaning towards the KBS again as it certainly is hard wearing and no
rust under it after 2 years of being applied.
IF the RustBullet comes in cheaper with shipping that may swing the balance. We shall see.
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yarrum
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| posted on August 22nd, 2012 at 07:18 PM |
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I have also use both Por 15 and KBS on my two cars.I found that the top Coats for the POR15 Doesn,t retain its gloss level.It looks like you haven,t
washed the dirt of it.It also hasn,t got a High soild content in its top coat as I painted Three coats of yellow on top of the Tie coat's and you can
still see the the grey under the yellow. Where KBS has in two years have retained its gloss level.The only problem is like someone already has
mentioned is solved boil if applied in warmer weather or applied to heavy. KBS is better for the Money and less trouble.
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psimitar
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| posted on August 24th, 2012 at 10:39 PM |
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Rust Bullet out of stock
So a week later I finally got a reply email from Rust Bullet Oz with pricing.
They also informed me that they are out of stock for the next 4-6 weeks until the next shipment arrives.
Glad I decided to buy a litre of KBS from Harts today
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Serious85
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| posted on November 21st, 2012 at 12:30 AM |
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Too many options,
RB, Por15, KBS, Epoxy primer 
How did your KBS go?
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psimitar
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| posted on November 21st, 2012 at 11:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Serious85
Too many options,
RB, Por15, KBS, Epoxy primer
How did your KBS go?
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KBS went on OK tho it does seem rather finicky about humidity and temp cos I ended up with a bit of micro bubbling but not as bad as last time so the
sound deadener is on now
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Serious85
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| posted on November 21st, 2012 at 11:29 PM |
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Cool thanks, KBS might be the go for now, I still have a few weeks to think about it though. I don't want to invest a ton of money in Rust Bullet
then screw it up either.
Has anybody got any opinions about the electronic rust proofing? I know it wont help whats already there but might help to stop new rust from
appearing.
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vlad01
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| posted on November 22nd, 2012 at 08:59 AM |
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doesn't work. just a marketing scam.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Serious85
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| posted on November 22nd, 2012 at 07:37 PM |
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Lol ok thanks, i'll steer clear of it then.
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psimitar
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| posted on November 23rd, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Serious85
Cool thanks, KBS might be the go for now, I still have a few weeks to think about it though. I don't want to invest a ton of money in Rust Bullet
then screw it up either.
Has anybody got any opinions about the electronic rust proofing? I know it wont help whats already there but might help to stop new rust from
appearing.
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It's all about the preperation dude. If you wire brush the rust in an angle grinder it kinda polishes the steel and doesn't give any paint a very
good key to stick too. If it's sandbalsted then that perfect but for smooth steel you need to have at it with 120 grit sandpaper to rough it up
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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Serious85
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| posted on November 23rd, 2012 at 11:31 PM |
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I was thinking about buying one of the little sandblaster guns from supercheap, do you think these are ok, or will they be too weak?
Still affraid of what holes I may uncover
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