| [ Total Views: 4446 | Total Replies: 42 | Thread Id: 98388 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 |
|
|
 vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on August 16th, 2012 at 08:55 AM |
|
|
ZDDP additive
Hi very one,
I have just built a 2276 with a FK87, 10.8 to 1, street eliminator heads, 48 DRLA's, 1 5/8" exhaust, i have run the engine in using Luminati zddp
oil additive and a non friction modified oil, http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/vintage,-veteran-&-classic/running-...(break_in_oil) , this has been successfull as
there is no oil consumption and blow by, it is due for its third oil change, http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/engine-oils/hpr/hpr_30_premium_mineral , and have been looking around for a bulk
purchase of ZDDP, the Luminati additive costs over $35.00 a bottle, i have seen this on ebay, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350434754517?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=... , has anyone had experence with this product,
it works out at $8.60 a bottle delivered to Australia, it seams to be the most promoted on the net, please let me know your experences with any of the
additives and were i can get a good deal.
Thanks,
Shayne
Back to top
|
|
|
Governor
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 414
Threads: 23
Registered: November 22nd, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: in your mind
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: yes please
|
| posted on August 16th, 2012 at 02:00 PM |
|
|
Google ULX110 oil
That might help
Its not an additive but an oil with a good concentration of zinc.
You have to get it right as too much can have just as bad an effect as too little?
|
|
|
57oval
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 305
Threads: 24
Registered: October 20th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on August 16th, 2012 at 08:22 PM |
|
|
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/vintage,-veteran-&-classic/classic_...
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/0CLASSIC%20ENGINE%20OILS%20Feb%202012.pdf
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on August 16th, 2012 at 08:51 PM |
|
|
Any one else using a ZDDP additive in there oil. i have alreadt spoken to the penrite engineer about the choice of oil for my aplication and the
recommendation is to use the HPR 30, i have run this oil for years without issues, when i stripped the old engine that come in the car it had major
failure of the cam followers, these were CB light weight lifters running on a engle FK 87 cam, i do not want a repeat of this problem.
Thanks.
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on August 16th, 2012 at 09:36 PM |
|
|
CASTROL GAVE Me these specs for GTX Zinc 850ppm P 750ppm
and Magnatic Zinc 850ppm and Phosp 800 ppm
anyone know what percentage these are??
I also notice that Penrite classic has the old classification of SG/CD
so, maybe any oil with that classification should do the job
that is if any are still available..? I also notice they say to change the oil at every 3000miles or 5000klms..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
Gracey
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 511
Threads: 17
Registered: February 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Beaudesert, Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Itchy
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 12:07 AM |
|
|
I'm currently using ZDDPlus, and I haven't had any problems so far.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 09:19 AM |
|
|
Thanks for that, thats what i wanted to hear, some one who has actually used a aditive, Lee, you need to look at oil that has a higher zddp content,
850PPM is a bit low, the penrite oil range has a content between 1200PPM and 1600PPM. gracey how much do you use and the quantity of oil in your
engine. thanks.
Shayne
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 03:57 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
CASTROL GAVE Me these specs for GTX Zinc 850ppm P 750ppm
and Magnatic Zinc 850ppm and Phosp 800 ppm
anyone know what percentage these are??
I also notice that Penrite classic has the old classification of SG/CD
so, maybe any oil with that classification should do the job
that is if any are still available..? I also notice they say to change the oil at every 3000miles or 5000klms..
LEE
|
thats shit, you need at least 1300 ppm (a safe margin) or more for flat tappet old technology engines Lee.
Try Job Gibs DT50 aircooled oil, should be hitting Aussie stockists soon. Its the most highly developed with the most R & D of any vw/porsche air
cooled oil in existence as I understand.
BP oil (Brad Penn) is another good one.
Penrite is ok for older engine design with 1100 ppm for the standard synthetic HPR range of oils, their classic/vintage oil probably have more.
ACE 30 has 1000? ppm but formulated with higher anti oxidizer additives to reduce break down from oxidation of the other oil additives from higher
temps.
end of the day a person makes his/hers own decision to which oil they use. 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
Posts: 7386
Threads: 312
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: In the garage chopping cars into bits
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: In the thinking chair
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 08:51 PM |
|
|
Penrite GAS Premium has 0.129% Zinc. I think this is about 1290PPM. I have always use Penrite GAS for my LPG Holden, my motorbike, the Beetle and the
Kombi.
The Kombi now gets HPR10 for the Subaru engine.
|
|
|
fish26
A.k.a.: benito
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 903
Threads: 38
Registered: July 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Ken awesome
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 09:22 PM |
|
|
Brad Penn gets my vote
bitten by the bug..........several times
|
|
|
vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
Veteran Volks Folk
Wow ... are U reading this?
Posts: 2120
Threads: 76
Registered: June 4th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisvegas
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Happy to own a VW
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 10:01 PM |
|
|
My stroker with over 50,000 kms using ACE30. No signs of any lifter wear in valve check/adjust.
|
|
|
57oval
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 305
Threads: 24
Registered: October 20th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on August 17th, 2012 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Amsoil-3-78L-20w50-Fully-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-/120...
|
|
|
Gracey
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 511
Threads: 17
Registered: February 6th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Beaudesert, Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Itchy
|
| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 10:36 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Thanks for that, thats what i wanted to hear, some one who has actually used a aditive, Lee, you need to look at oil that has a higher zddp content,
850PPM is a bit low, the penrite oil range has a content between 1200PPM and 1600PPM. gracey how much do you use and the quantity of oil in your
engine. thanks.
Shayne
|
I add 1 bottle of zddp to 5L of Castrol Edge 25w-50.
My motor only takes a bit over 2.5L as I run a Pobjoy anti surge sump and no external oil cooler.
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 10:57 PM |
|
|
I haven't seen anyone recommend using a synthetic oil for a VW engine which still needs to be changed at 3000miles or 5000klms
unless its modified... with proper crankcase ventilation etc..
even Penrite say still change the oil at 3000 miles 5000 klms in VW engines with their classic car oils..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on August 20th, 2012 at 10:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Penrite GAS Premium has 0.129% Zinc. I think this is about 1290PPM. I have always use Penrite GAS for my LPG Holden, my motorbike, the Beetle and the
Kombi.
The Kombi now gets HPR10 for the Subaru engine.
|
Sounds good Pete
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4270
Threads: 109
Registered: June 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Location: Kyneton, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Side ways
|
| posted on August 22nd, 2012 at 03:46 PM |
|
|
Yeah Penrite is probably the best off the self available everywhere oil, but for much better specialized oil like Brad Penn, Joe Gibs, ACE 30 etc...
are required.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on September 20th, 2012 at 01:48 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Any one else using a ZDDP additive in there oil. i have alreadt spoken to the penrite engineer about the choice of oil for my aplication and the
recommendation is to use the HPR 30, i have run this oil for years without issues, when i stripped the old engine that come in the car it had major
failure of the cam followers, these were CB light weight lifters running on a engle FK 87 cam, i do not want a repeat of this problem.
Thanks.
|
Hi
I have just ordered some ZDDP MAXX from the USA
interesting reading as they say NOT to over do it..
to balance it out... still trying to sort out how much I'll need... in 5 litres of GTX oil..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on September 20th, 2012 at 06:48 PM |
|
|
You will have to be carefull as to much zinc is just is bad as not enough, i have worked out for my application that half a bottle of additive to six
liters penrite HPR30 is about right, the oil has 1217PPM of zinc already and i feel a full bottle would be to much, i have tried to find out from the
manufacturer's of the additives what PPM you would have if you put a full bottle of there additive into five liters of oil with no zinc and to date
no one has given me a answer, the oil you use already is low on zinc so more that half the bottle might be advisable.
|
|
|
coletrickle
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 661
Threads: 34
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 20th, 2012 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
Lucas do a straight 30 with zinc I think they sell it as a flat tappet break in oil for v8's it might be worth a look.as for my beast I've been
using Ace 30 no complaints,as for penrite I know a guy who went from Ace30 to the penrite and for no extra chage he got another 25 degrees oil
temp
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on September 20th, 2012 at 09:41 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
You will have to be carefull as to much zinc is just is bad as not enough, i have worked out for my application that half a bottle of additive to six
liters penrite HPR30 is about right, the oil has 1217PPM of zinc already and i feel a full bottle would be to much, i have tried to find out from the
manufacturer's of the additives what PPM you would have if you put a full bottle of there additive into five liters of oil with no zinc and to date
no one has given me a answer, the oil you use already is low on zinc so more that half the bottle might be advisable.
|
Yes, they say that too much is just as bad as not enough and give ppm figures to work on.
Castrol GTX has 850ppm so they told Me about a few months ago..
the person who wrote the info on ZDDP Maxx on ebay can't spell and the details are a bit confusing... along with no actual details of how big the
bottles are???
I'm presuming they are 2 US ounces.. which sounds very small
anyway will see when they arrive..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
 posted on September 21st, 2012 at 10:05 AM |
|
|
I find the oil temp increase a little hard to follow as ace oil is nothing special, even the zinc content is below what is recommended for a flat
tappet cam engine, if that is the issue i will get a oil temp in my car of 75 degrees if i change to ace oil ,thats funny, i will have to remove the
oil cooler.
|
|
|
coletrickle
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 661
Threads: 34
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 21st, 2012 at 03:19 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
I find the oil temp increase a little hard to follow as ace oil is nothing special, even the zinc content is below what is recommended for a flat
tappet cam engine, if that is the issue i will get a oil temp in my car of 75 degrees if i change to ace oil ,thats funny, i will have to remove the
oil cooler.
|
I didn't post about the oil temp increase for anyother reason than to put it out there as I thought it may be of some intrest to some.The lucas oil I
mentioned that for the same reason.I'm happy to try and add to the discussions here that may help people build a reliable shit hot VW streeter that
dosent cost the earth,which I assume you may be intrested in?You driving your bug to warrick?
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on September 21st, 2012 at 03:53 PM |
|
|
I have read a couple of oil tests and the most difference i have seen in a controlled test was about three degrees, as i stated i find this difference
unbelievable. both the oils are a mineral oil and would have similar ability to transfere the heat. there would be some other issue causing the temp
increase to that degree, as i currently run penrite in all of our cars and have tried many different oils over the years, i have never had any thing
like the temp increase of 25 degrees happen to me, i would be a warwick the only problem is i am working over seas offshore at the moment.
|
|
|
sander288
Custom Title Time!
"Bolt-on Master"
Posts: 1404
Threads: 183
Registered: August 26th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Norman Park, QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: This is my bug. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 09:37 AM |
|
|
after reading this thread it got me thinking about the oil I am using so I did some research into a few brands of oil to see what their zddp (zinc)
content was
I currently use Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50
Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50 - mineral oil (not synthetic) - $50 5L (supercheap)
*SEE MY OTHER POST LATER IN THREAD***
Penrite HPR30 20W-60 - mineral oil - $36 5L (supercheap)
zinc: 0.158% (1580ppm)
phos: 0.144%
All Brad Penn oils (weight of oil doesn't matter) - 20W-50 $127 + delivery (12x 1 quart bottles)
zinc: 0.15% (1500ppm)
phos: 0.14%
 Royal Purple - at $95 for 5L on special at supercheap I didn't
bother
ACE30 - QP Lubes website is under construction so I couldn't find the info from the horses mouth
I know that the historic formula vee crowd is running the brad penn oil in their engines; in terms of cost the Penn oil isn't that much more
expensive because if your using the other oils and then an additive it wouldn't come out that much cheaper IMHO
What am I going to do now? Probably buy a case of Brad Penn in 15W40 or 20W50; but with that said I'm still happy using the oil I've got and would
also happily use Penrite HPR30 as I used to before I had the motor rebuilt
With all the above said a Castrol Tech had written a piece about zinc in oil etc and he commented that for the anti-wear properties of the zinc to be
properly activated the oil needed to reach a temp of at least 80 degrees Celsius so no matter what if your engine is running too cool it will wear
quicker
my 2c
Cheers
Shaun
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 10:22 AM |
|
|
I have a print out from the penrite site and the HPR 30 is listed with a zinc content of 1217PPM, the highest in the penrite range is the running in
oil at 1600PPM.
|
|
|
sander288
Custom Title Time!
"Bolt-on Master"
Posts: 1404
Threads: 183
Registered: August 26th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Norman Park, QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: This is my bug. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 02:46 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
I have a print out from the penrite site and the HPR 30 is listed with a zinc content of 1217PPM, the highest in the penrite range is the running in
oil at 1600PPM.
|
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/0HPR%2030.pdf
This is what I got off Penrite's site
|
|
|
sander288
Custom Title Time!
"Bolt-on Master"
Posts: 1404
Threads: 183
Registered: August 26th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Norman Park, QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: This is my bug. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 02:48 PM |
|
|
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/HPR%2030%20September%202012.pdf
here is one I just got off the website again; using the website not google - Sept 2012 up to date the zinc content is actually less than the other
data sheet
|
|
|
tar76
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1622
Threads: 95
Registered: December 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Ningi Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Rollin with The Dub Collective
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 05:45 PM |
|
|
Ive been using Penrite in the bus and ACE30 in the bug. Not really sure which i like the best yet. I haven't been using ACE for that long as i
always used Penrite 30 non syn before i was put onto ACE. I'd be ineterested in trying that DT150
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 06:19 PM |
|
|
I've had customers comment on the improved engine quietness and oil life when they have switched from Penrite to ACE, similarly Castrol to ACE. I've
been using ACE for around 5 years now, even pulled down a few engines that have been on it, one of which exclusively used ACE and bearing, cam and
lifter condition has been superb. I don't like Penrite as I believe it to be excessively thick for it's rated viscosity which IMO impedes piston and
bearing cooling.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on September 24th, 2012 at 07:33 PM |
|
|
I'm using Brad Penn.......so far so good.
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 |
