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 vwo60
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 06:36 PM |
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Just a quick question, have you proven that the gauge in your car is acurate, as stated the autometer temp gauge that i have tested was 25 degrees
out, you need to calibrate the gauge to determine if it is acurate as this makes every thing else an unknown.
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sander288
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 06:40 PM |
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VS will alter it for you and VVDS will import it for you. The price is better going through vintage than ordering direct. But get a quote.
I'd talk to VVDS about what size header is suitable for your engine
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 07:01 PM |
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the tinware not really that bad from the looks of it.
Its just because your got a 1600 in a 1200 place.
the early seal with the two flaps is a bit tricky to fit the 1600 tinware , but long as its there it looks OK.
once you put that back ducking on and open the engine lid to let some extra air in she be sweet.
I wouldn't pull the motor down , I would just check the compression.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 07:07 PM |
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.
.
http://67.20.55.86/viewtopic.php?tid=96229
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 07:09 PM |
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.
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Lateral
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 07:24 PM |
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Hi guys
Yep, the temp gauge has been tested but not calibrated. There was also an issue with there not being a transmission earth strap and that can
apparently cause a problem with accuracy. Are you suggesting to place it in hot water and check the gauge?
Regards
Greg
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 07:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lateral
Next question, 38mm or 42mm Header?
Regards
Greg
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Greg
You will get a lot of different answers - but it is good you are asking as you can make up your own mind from the different info
1 3/8" is 35mm and 1 1/2" is 38
"my opinion" is 1 3/8" is good for probably 90hp
I have seen a 95 true rear wheel HP with the same exhaust as mine
JC from AC Net says - "a decent guideline is to run 1 3/8" for up to 90hp, 1 1/2" from 90-140hp, and 1 5/8" from 140-175hp"
I would be surprised if yours is doing more than 80HP
the 42mm is more like 1 5/8
there is heaps of reading you can do here
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-engine-theory/
Futue te ipsum!!!
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matberry
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| posted on January 29th, 2013 at 09:50 PM |
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Here's your temperature problem
no extra vents for the bigger doghouse fan and the oil cooler shute
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Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Lateral
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:29 AM |
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Thanks Bizarre,
I'll have a read. As I'll be at the dyno next Monday, it'll be interesting to see the statistics.
Hi Matt,
Yeah, I am sure that you are correct. At this stage I am aiming to attempt to get a good starting point by correctly fitting ALL of the required
tinware and getting the tuning right so that I can then see what temperatures the motor is running under those circumstances. Once I have that done,
then I have a good baseline from which to gauge how anything I might do or add to the car such as an external oil cooler or vents affects that
baseline.
Regards
Greg
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HappyDaze
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 07:45 AM |
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Matt is right, ^ extra [COOL] air is a must.
At high RPM, the engine and the cooling fan are 'fighting' over the available cool air.....the engine, being positive displacement, will most likely
WIN.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:08 AM |
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I recon 65HP.
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matberry
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:09 AM |
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Do what you like Greg, but each minute that the engine is running with the decklid shut is doing premature engine damage. VW increased the air vent
size when they put in the big fan. Your pistons and cylinders are overheating which eventually shows with increased oil temps.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 09:42 AM |
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More air, simple job.......invest in one of these before even driving it to the dyno with that lack of oil cooler tinwear at the moment
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=96229&page=1
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vwo60
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 09:59 AM |
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it is really a matter of opinion with the vents, my 60 model beetle has all the tin and seals, no extra vents, a 2054, 8.5 to 1, big valve heads, 44
idf's, 1 5/8 exhaust, both cylinder head and oil temps are good and never over heats, oil temp never goes over 100 degrees and the head temps rearly
see 150 degrees, this engine does not run a doghouse cooler only a external one dirrectly in the air flow at the front of the car, same on my ghia,
2275, engle fk87, runs 10.8 to 1, oil temps are great and the head temp has never seen over 150 degrees also. yes i suggest you check the gauges
acuracy as it seams that the whole thread swings on wheater it is correct, as i said a new auto meter gauge was out 25 degrees.
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matberry
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:18 AM |
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Shayne, you said your '60 has no dog house cooler, so one would suggest it has a narrow fan that matches the non-dog-house style fan housing that
makes it ok with standard early vents. And your Ghia has a Ghia deck-lid with larger designed vents. I don't believe it's just opinion based. I
still believe there re many inacurate gauges out there, no question, but oil temps are so far 'down-the-line' from the actual problem IMO.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60yes i suggest you check the gauges acuracy as it seams that the whole thread swings on wheater it is correct.
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It is missing dog house tinwear.
If the original post said "Hey, my engine is missing vital pieces of tinwear and I have NO GUAGE to check.....should I worry about engine
temperature???"
Could we all hold hands and give a unanimous YES then?
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
with any modified engine if you increase the power output you will increase the heat generated,
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A true statement.
VW engineers increased the vent size on not only the engine lid, but also the vents below the rear window as the factory motor's HP increased. To
make the statement that extra vents are 'a matter of opinion' clearly shows that someone may need to revisit the evolution of the cooling to the vw
motor.
Regardless of gauge accuracy (and no the whole thread doesn't swing on this issue), this car and motor will greatly benefit from correctly installed
tinware and INCREASED airflow in and out of the engine bay........its a no brainer
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matberry
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 AM |
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You have to use the L-O-U-D pedal to make power....... which ultimately makes heat. (but we digress, this is not the question at hand....do we need
air for our air-cooled engines.....heck yeah!)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Lateral
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 01:06 PM |
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Hi guys
This issue has generated some spirted discussion which is great!
Just to clarify, I am not currently driving the car around as I am spending a lot of time on researching a number of issues. The trip to the dyno is
NOT to have the car thrashed but to speak with experts on EFI and the ATOM G4 ECU that the car has installed with the view of them testing things such
as the Injectors, sensors, timing etc and telling me if they think that I should have any additional sensors installed such as an Oxygen Sensor or
make any mods to the system. When the car is on the dyno, the engine lid will be removed (I installed a set of quick release pins) so that any cooling
fans can be placed correctly.
I understand and agree with the fact that there probably needs to be some more air brought into the engine bay. I have contacted Craig via PM to get a
hold of his standoff. I will also "test" the temp sender to ensure that it is calibrated correctly. I am very keen to see how the various changes
affect the oil temp so that is why I am doing things in stages.
Thanks again guys for the great input!
Regards
Greg
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 01:50 PM |
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No pm at my end 
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Lateral
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 04:07 PM |
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Hi CRaig,
I just sent another PM and photo. I checked and it is in my outbox...the first PM did not appear in the Outbox for some reason.
Regards
Greg
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vwo60
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:48 PM |
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Only make one change at a time so you can document its affect.
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matberry
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 06:52 PM |
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So Shayne, what fan is in your '60?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Lateral
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| posted on January 30th, 2013 at 08:32 PM |
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That's the plan VWo60!
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vwo60
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 07:36 AM |
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As you make each change to the engine, ie, install the oil cooler tin, do the test you have been doing on your spread sheet and record the resalts, ie
go to the dyno, do the same road test after and record the resalt, this way you can see clearly the improvment that are occuring, if there are no
improvemnets with the changes you can prove that, i am not saying that there will not be the improvements, this just lets you confirm what is
happening, i do this all the time in my job aboard the floating oil processing ship, fault find on a lot of complicated equipment, all recorded so you
can work out what has made the improvement so you can keep looking in that direction, my 2054 has the wide fan fitted to the engine Matt. i still
suggest that you test the gauge to detremine the base line, if it is out you can add or subtract the difference to give you the accurate reading.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 11:10 AM |
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Its not to hard,
people have been modding vw for
the past 60 years , Its all been done before.
correct tinware, etc etc ,hoodjaks , boot stand offs, extra holes in lid.
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Lateral
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 11:23 AM |
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I agree guys.
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69bug
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 11:32 AM |
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I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
1969 1500
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 11:48 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 69bug
I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
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You bought one from me, and I'm glad you're happy with it (Although I knew you would be !)
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mactaylor
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| posted on January 31st, 2013 at 08:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 69bug
I have one of the boot props at the bottom that I bought of somebody on here,
Great product as my 69 has no holes or vents in the deck lid and it works amazingly
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You bought one from me, and I'm glad you're happy with it (Although I knew you would be !)
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modest too!
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