| [ Total Views: 8798 | Total Replies: 196 | Thread Id: 519 ] |
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 Buggy Boyz
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| posted on January 19th, 2003 at 10:44 PM |
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I have no idea
I dunno it didn't have anything on it but the stroke from memory. I know it came from the US if that makes any difference. |
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 12:30 PM |
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Maybe you need to read my post again, I have listed the "3J record" for Dapto for which I hold.
You will also see I have written " the then dominated sport of Hillclimb by Jeff Unwin", not a boast I have beaten him.
As for Joe rolling the car, I find it strange that a VW business like Hellbug did not rebuild or replace the vehicle(Not that hard when you have a
business with all the contacts) and continue to compete in the class, especially when a POBJOY 1916 powered vehicle was breaking all the records.
Instead Jeff returned in a WRX(turbo) powered Typ 3 that was not competitive in the class nor could it get close to the times of my car!
I also find it amusing that even though I have dominating the sport for 6 years at a State and National level, holding more than 10 CAMS Class
records, that Ben still thinks his one win holds any type of weight . Maybe the "Wiggles" should be singing "WAKE UP BEN"
At the end of the day I do not run a VW business nor do I make any money from the Industry. ANY engine builder could have my money, but they need to
prove their product first. I wanted the ONE motor combination to be able to dominate the sport of HILLCLIMB, therefor it had to have a broad rev range
and torque and power to handle all track configurations.(tight, long, high speed, low speed,circuit etc) Stan Pobjoy has supplied this motor to
achieve the proven result. If I wanted a engine to win Drags then Stan would then supply a motor to suit. If I wanted a VW based AIRCRAFT or GYRO
engine then Stan would also have the right combination ! and so on.
As for blowing my doors off in hillclimb, this is my SEVENTH year and I'm still waiting. More than happy for someone to beat me, that is what
healthy competition is all about!
Maybe we could go drag racing Ben, although I beat you here as well in 1999 !
For the RECORD: Ben your car posted the time of 8.95 in 1998 not the claimed 8.7?
Happy motor sport to all:thumb
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KruizinKombi
A.k.a.: Col
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 01:13 PM |
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Brad, I thought you were looking at a V6 for the manx?
As for the rest of this thread.... sounds like there's a whole lotta leg-humping going on...
Kruizin Kol
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 01:25 PM |
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I have a poodle, if anybody wants to borrow him:kiss
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amazer
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 01:50 PM |
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This topic is getting rather amusing.
I dont have anything to gain here at all. The only type 1 engine I can see myself owning in the future is a 36 horse! The only allegience I have is to
Hellbug which we all know is no longer trading.
I am only pointing out facts. Undeniable ones. You implied you were the one to take the title away from Jeff. Sure you won the title. But as far as I
know, not against Jeff/Jo. I dont know why a new beetle wasnt built after the crash. Perhaps there wasnt the time. The WRX notchback I believe came at
the right price which allowed Jeff to jump in and do some racing as he was out of the seat for a few years. Your last trip to dapto you did 27.21 yes?
I think even I did a 27.41 in the WRX notch. You can believe that you scared him away if you like. His list of credentials is longer than yours. Some
on bikes as well.
But all in all when it comes down to it there a hell of a lot more to posting a time than just an engine. If only it was that easy. This little circle
can roll around till the cows come home. Put me in either car and I'll probably be a couple of seconds slower. Its the same engine though.
*Putting on my WSCC hat*
You do not hold the record for 2E/3J/improved production/whatever they call it now at Dapto. If you believe you do hold the 3J record then perhaps you
should tell me what it is and when it was set because I have no record of it. See above for the what is currently assumed by Wollongong Sporting Car
Club.
*taking off the WSCC hat*
[Edited on 20-1-2003 by amazer]
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 02:39 PM |
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When CAMS changes the class classification Eg 2E to 3J the record is then held for the class it was set. Grant Cook has posted a faster time than
me,I agree, this was done when the class was 2E, I then set the record for 3J (which I posted) and Grant now holds the record for Improved
production.This is shown in your post with the time for the classes, pretty easy to see that really?
I have never claimed to be the fastest at Dapto, that is why I said I have come second only once on my original post. As for Jeffs achievements, well
done to him, I never said I have acheived more. My original post just replies to the original Question!
Its interesting your point about more than the engine for setting a time. Your exactly right ,it is also the driver /gearbox/suspension etc, so why
are we then so set on the Dapto result?Some people think it is a measure for horsepower but you have just corrected that myth ! Thankyou. A track will
not measure horsepower ,just car/driver.
My engine is just one peace of the puzzle enabling me to win, without it I would not. The same could be said for everything in my car !
The "ford" vs "Holden" debate has gone on for years, and so will probably this engine debate.
Next topic please, I'm also amused and bored of it.
[Edited on 20-1-2003 by Craig Torrens]
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amazer
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 04:00 PM |
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Kewel. 4 pages! this is getting as good as the "anyone got a ..." thread from the old forum.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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vwrallycar
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 09:58 PM |
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well getting back on the subject here, having just built my 1916 it really is a lovely motor. plenty of power especially from 60MPH on!
still very streetable and smooth too
well worth the experience
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56astro
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 10:37 PM |
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And back onto the original topic ........
94mm's and 1916's
Ben
"more power for longer"
Surely you're not suggesting that a 1776 makes more power than a 1916. This is the sort of stuff Berg was proclaiming back in the 60s and 70s,
but when he talks of blow-by and power loss he quotes "92mm/94mm sets". He doesn't distinguish between the 2. Where is your evidence
that a 1776 makes "more power for longer", all other things being equal. Or are you just referring to the P&C's. Is this merely an
attempt to rubbish a competitors product, or is it as you put it "through shear ignorance or for marketing reasons or to justify" your own
business.
Geez, how many 1916's must there be out there that are sitting on the side of the road cause they have lost all their power! The proof is in the
pudding as they say.
Now, the so-called "fundemental engineering flaws" you mentioned have already been addressed by Wes, and duly dispelled using fact and
engineering logic.
Amazer, in 1997 Craig beat both Grant Cook and Ben in Ben's car - Craig's car 2 vs Ben's car nil. In 1998 Grant beat Craig but Craig
beat Ben.
This may seem pedantic (& I admit it is to a certain extent) but it shows that the cars are quite even and in some respects it comes down to
drivers, but not in all cases.
What I have tried to do is help balance a situation where some people in the Aus VW scene over the years have rubbished one particular engine builder.
His cars have been sabotaged at race meetings, his customers cars have been sabotaged by other VW workshops, Pobjoy-powered cars are refused entry to
VW shows. The list goes on, but the VW general public don't hear of the hurdles and obstacles that are placed in his way. God, if the truth be
known he was probably even dobbed in to the local council for working from home! He has not and would not enter this sort of debate because it is
simply not in his character. He is well above that (unlike us of course). But the one statement he can make, and he does it very well, is to build
engines using 94s that according to the so-called experts are rubbish, but in actual fact are arguably the best T1 n/a engine in the country.
Have a look at at any drag or race meeting result and have a look at whose cars are the quickest normally aspirated. A good percentage will be you
know who's.
Lets not let fiction get in the way of the truth.
[Edited on 20-1-2003 by 56astro]
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on January 20th, 2003 at 11:42 PM |
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Ok then
Colin, I have 2 manx buggies, 1 which will get a V6 at this stage and one I have built the stroker for just to see how it goes. Also cause some people
( Namely Wes ) have been paying out on 92s for so long I thought I would start with a new set and see how long they last. That way I will know from my
own experience.
As for 94's the reason I didn't go with them was cause you had to cut to much case for my likeing and if the 92's fail I can always go
bigger but it is a little harder to go down to 92's from 94's. I had intended to go with 90.5 but that didn't work out due to stock
levels.
In the end I really just wanted to have a play with one of them funky new alloy cases Mick had sitting around ..
[Edited on 20-1-2003 by Buggy Boyz] |
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amazer
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 08:24 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
His cars have been sabotaged at race meetings, his customers cars have been sabotaged by other VW workshops, Pobjoy-powered cars are refused entry to
VW shows.
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Well I thought I was done with this topic because I dont have a barrow to push either way. I'm a type 4 kombi person. BUT!
I find it extremely hard to believe that a car would get sabotaged at a hillclimb. There are far too many people about and it just isnt done. There
are plenty of ideological/personality clashes for sure but I have enver heard of sabotage. Although if you are from NSWRRC I wouldnt rule out
murder.
Workshops sabotaging? I dont know how. They would have to fix their sabotaging. If there is any evidence in this then it should be reported to MTA.
The show entry refusal takes the cake though. I would definitely like to know whos cars were refused and the reason given by the club. I'm
assuming they didnt say "you cant come in with a pobjoy 1916".
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Baja Wes
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 02:28 PM |
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"Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can't,
And the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it."
Robert Frost
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fullnoise
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 03:06 PM |
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My few cents because I'm feeling left out.
I haven't heard anything about sabotage.
All I've heard is that the Nambucca Spectacular race format is 3 laps so that the Hillclimb cars (namely pobjoy cars) will overheat and not be
competitive.
Perhaps the Pobjoy boys need to throw on bigger pulleys and we could have a showdown this year at Nambucca. C'mon Ben, Craig, Greg and Chris lets
see who wins in August? Jak and I will probably come along and fight for the wooden spoon.
BTW I had my 1916 tearing along the F3 on the way to Gosford and back on Saturday. It was the hottest day in 20years and I'm doing 120kmph with
94 pistons and barrels, 9.5 CR and street eliminators. I'm sure I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do that.
CYA, CT:repuke
esratrams
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 03:18 PM |
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Ct
ummm.....can i ask what your temp gauge was reading?
You do run a standoff kit dont you? alls i could see was a flush engine lid with slots on those piccies Jak posted.
By the way.......you are not getting a wooden spoon....i am taking my 1776 and Daisy the Kombi up this year hopefully. Havent told the wife i want to
have a blat around a track in the bus yet!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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amazer
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 04:43 PM |
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Baah. Even if I could somehow keep my car on the track and beat you guys you would all bitch about me cos its turbo  j/k
I dont know if I will be racing. I really need more dyno time to set up the EFI and it costs $$$. Then I'd have to re rego the trailer. Dont know
if mrs will let me spend her money on racing. Maybe I could pinch the keys of the VWRX notch. What size pistons in that? I'll try and save a few
pennies, see how I go. (cop out)
Maybe we should all have a go together in the karts. Just for fun, if thats at all possible.
Whats all this crap about hillclimb cars overheating????? My hillclimb engine is the very same engine I used to drive to work n back each day.
Circuit racing is for people who cant get it right in one go. Give em 3 laps to make up for their mistakes
[Edited on 21-1-2003 by amazer]
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 21st, 2003 at 08:47 PM |
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Chris, we finally agree on the same thing!Karts,cooling and circuit racers.
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 22nd, 2003 at 01:49 PM |
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what licencing do u need to race in all these full on hilclimbs????ill be in with the karts my record at to good with karts (crashed into a fence
knocking it down and sliding up the seats crashing my nuts into the steering pole OUCH!!!)
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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amazer
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| posted on January 22nd, 2003 at 04:37 PM |
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You need a CAMS level 2 licence to do hillclimbing. To get a CAMS licence you need to be a member of a CAMS affiliated club. After that its just a
matter fo filling out a form and signing a medical declaration. If you have any medical conditions I suggest you keep them secret. Because CAMS wont
issue a licence to you because of the ol' liablility thing. I ticked every condition there was and told em 'none of your business go
get.....' and they wouldnt give me one either. Being a smart arse dont help in this situation. Just lie.
A guy in our club had a heart bypass and now cant race. Even though he is healthier now than before the op. It seems CAMS will let you run with a
blocked heart but not a clear one. It also appears that if you have a bypass you are allowed to drive on public roads where everyone is at risk but
not on a track where only yourself is at risk.
Thats my CAMS bitch for the day. You will need a level 2 for the lap dash as well.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Jamox
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 05:56 PM |
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Bloody hell!!! I think -no, I am certain- that this has been the the most confusing and contradictory topic I have ever read!!! I was interested
in getting a new motor to quiten down some of my buddies. I have gained absolutely nothing from this thread. Was it supposed to help me? I now
don't know what to do.
I just read a few articles on Stan Pobjoy's motors and they sounded unreal and had me convinced in trying to follow some of his theories. One
article was in "Hot 4s and Rotaries; Red Hot Volkswagens No 1." the other was in Australia's "Best Volkswagens No1". What
Ben and others have said have wiped that away. I don't know much about performance for engines so how can I trust my VW mechanic for advice?
What if his recommendations are different again? If I am forking out money, I don't really want to just accept that everyone has different
opinions. I want to know.
I have a baja too, so it doesn't need to drag race, just be good at the lights and be reliable .
I dread to ask: "Recommendations?" |
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 06:53 PM |
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Righto then
If my buggy makes it to Valla I will happily race you all...... Just don't think many of you will be out there on the gynkana circuit with me
Oh well should still be a hoot, just need to find tht damn license thingy ... |
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 07:09 PM |
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went to the CAMS site and had a read of the liucencing deal im oldenough to get mine and there is a club here that is CAMS affiliated but i dont know
iof its worth it!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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Baja Wes
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 07:12 PM |
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Jamox, any high performance VW motor from a respectable VW engine builder will be fine. Since you have a Baja, you will like the torque of the
1915.
Ben, I am happy to race you, the only problem is we like different cars that are made for different purposes. I would happily race you from one side
of Fraser Island to the other (if they closed it off for us of course), and I am sure I would kick your ass as you'd be bogged. Similar if we
race on the road you will kick my arse as I have 300mm of ground clearance, no sway bars, and mud tyres. So really as much as I would like to, we
can't race. And if we did it would only show the difference between car and driver and only a small % engine. I am sure you build great engines
that would be fantastic to drive, but I wouldn't pay your asking price. I wouldn't pay the asking price for a Pobjoy motor either. And that
is why my car has a V6.
PS - Brad doesn't have anything against 94's, as he bought my old 1915. He is just going to use 92's to stir up some shit because
everyone hates them, and he got them at the right price.
[Edited on 26-1-2003 by Baja Wes]
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 07:25 PM |
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mmmmm,
So if you want to race with a 1943cc just make sure Ben is available to "jet and trim" your car before every run !!!!!
Also invest in a gas analyser and spend a small fortune on programmable injection!
Now I'm REALLY happy with my 1916 with 44IDF's ,if this is what's needed to make the other perform.
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 vw54
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 07:46 PM |
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maybe everyone should SWAP cars and drive at the different events
I think the times represent how crazy or Game some drives may be.
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2003 at 07:54 PM |
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heh heh heh so Dave - you offering me a drive in Smoothie of the super charged?
Futue te ipsum!!!
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lugnuts
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| posted on January 27th, 2003 at 09:54 AM |
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I think you should all take a cold shower,chill out relax and have a cold one,this thread will hopefully die soon before we all turn into yanks and
have a bitch fight like they do on STF.:P |
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vw54
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| posted on January 28th, 2003 at 06:39 AM |
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Barry anytime you find how Smoothee is goes...
No i was refering to size of some peoples sacks. Some r bigger than mine....
i dont like being out of control .. :puke:puke around corners... but in a straight line no worries.
[Edited on 27-1-2003 by vw54]
[Edited on 27-1-2003 by vw54]
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Pat
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| posted on January 28th, 2003 at 12:37 PM |
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AAAHHH, so that's what this thread is REALLY about, comparing "sack" size, now it all makes sense.:P
Ooh, suits you sir!
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OvalGlen
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| posted on February 5th, 2003 at 07:45 PM |
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What do I think of 1916cc ???
I say that it really makes a difference who machines your 1916cc engine.
The one who machined my 1916 is reputed as one of the best in the bussiness.
I have had a couple of them and " I think that they are
Great motors."
It just seems to be a big Torquey motor that is still able to rev hard and just keeps going and going. I thrash it often.
This current one is awaiting a blower, but even with the mild cam it has now it
is a fun grunty motor.
If you're thinking of going 1916 , I thoroughly recommend them but make sure you get someone who Konws what he is doing (done 100's and
100's) to machine it.
Also helps to get a good combination of Cam/Carb/Heads/exhaust..ask the Man.
Regards,Glenn>
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Peter Leonard
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 posted on April 18th, 2003 at 08:42 PM |
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so far so good
I've been driving my 'non steroidically enhanced' 1916 Pobjoy engine for about five years or so. Lets clarify 'driving' for a
sec. Driving could be anything from getting a litre of milk at the shops, to redlining and doing burnouts every day. In the time I've owned the
engine I've made maybe 3- 400 'just the litre of milk' missions, done about 350 burnouts and blown away about 7 million showy
hatchbacks and baseball cap wearing tracksuited doofing nutbags (mebbe not 7mil, but you get my point). I redline every so often, but more as a
mistake than anything else, you soon get to feel where the power is sweetest - and valve bounce sounds kinda funny...
The engine has taken me around Australia, Kadrons fitted with Unifilter filter socks to get thru 400 kms of corrugated dirt roads in Central
Australia, taken me to Melbourne six times (including the trip to Canterbury? hillclimb made just three hours after dropping said engine in back of 71
superbug) done about five trips to central coast, two to Brisbane, etc etc.. it's done some serious touring. It's now in it's second
body (after defining where the crumple zone ends on a mitsubishi magna station wagon, and after having a misplaced truck wheel tear the sump offf on
the Hume Highway). It has never looked like quitting, besides one time in Darwin, where it was struck by lightning, frying the regulator in the
alternator (ironically one bit Stan 'proponent of all things stock' said I could have stuck with the old generator).
I swapped the plugs over last week (first time ever) and was rewarded with a nice little power boost. I have shown off to mates, scared girlfriends,
obliterated thousands of flying insects and still it keeps grinning at me every time I look at it. I went thru a quite a few VW mechanics before
deciding on an engineer, ex Hawker de Havilland trained and all. Every cent I spent on the 1916 was worth it. I'd like to add at this point, that
i have been known to wear baseball hats, wear shiny tracksuits, and play doof music thru the 600 watt soundsystem in my snot green Volkswagen. Just
not all at the same time.
Doing business with the Pobjoy family was straightforward, honest and a pleasure. Stan (last i heard) is the only hands on employee at Stan
Pobjoy's Racing Engineering. The other is his wife, Ruth, who tries to keep on top of a pile of paperwork while juggling her racing career at
Stan's side.
"So what?"
Every engine Stan puts together for sale, Stan puts together. Not some 12 year old hamfisted apprentice with a claw hammer and a rag in his pocket. I
hear he used to guarantee his engines for 12 months. But it became an open invitation to thrash their guts out as quickly as possible (most not
succeeding in 12 months) and as engine abuse is not the spirit of his guarantee, he dropped it to six or something.. ask him. I haven't seen him
for a while since he died again and moved to coffs harbour
I'm going to be seeing him again soon as I have the justification/money for a steroids engine. I took a ride in one with Troy once (stan's
old orange L bug). I got out of it beaming. where the 'stock' 1916 bounced valves, the steroids 1916 just sounded meaner and pushed you back
into your seat harder. Can we say 'fun?'
Sorry to have rambled for so long, but the 1916 has been a source of serious fun for me, despite the fact that I also ride a sportsbike, and that the
shell it's now housed in has wheels pointed in four different directions. As far as the 94mm cylinders go, if you know what you're doing
with a machining table horizontal to within 1/1000th" in all directions, and have an attention to detail within aircraft tolerances, love going
fast so much that you fall asleep during everyday driving, run a small business making handbuilt VW engines, can't afford to make a dud engine,
don't cut corners, don't make false promises, talk waaaaaayyyyy too much about VWs, and constantly grin about being the best in the
business, you're probably stan, so I'd probably trust you to shoehorn a set of four cardboard boxes into my case if you told me it'd
work. Colling on my engine is stock. stock stock. hottest it's ever been is 120 degrees for four hours in 40 degree heat at 80MpH on the way to
Darwin. *shrugs*
94's are stronger than crappy slip in 92's. you have to machine the case to fit them,
(so you can't be a mechanic with a file to do it) but you remove a lot less important material than doing something wacky like clearancing an
oversized stroker crank (in the process weakening a case at the very points it needs reinforcement). The longer the stroke, the lower the revs before
your engine tries to tear itself into 'a three piece case'. Wanna hear what 9000 rpm sounds like on a VW? listen to the 1916 open-wheeler
Stan's been fiddling (and winning) with for years. And stay clear of slow revving stroker cranks. mmm... nasty...
*gets off soapbox*
have fun destroying the spirits of v6 owners, and remember, double demerits. mucho cash for police. (if they were serious they'd drop the fines
at easter, and double the demerits.)
:puke
let sleeping dubs lie
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