| [ Total Views: 28739 | Total Replies: 442 | Thread Id: 64504 ] |
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 LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 4th, 2008 at 09:54 AM |
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We have cranked the engine over quite a lot pumping oil around checking for leaks etc etc. Troy did it everyday for about 2 weeks after work just
making sure everything was all OK. Gauge was registering good pressure so that oil was then dropped out and replaced with the good stuff. cleaned the
filters and then did fuel pressure tests for leaks. Found a few minor ones so fixed them and got good pressure on the gauge on the regulator.
Guys at dyno shop are going to have Troy there when the tuning begins incase something could happen. First tune will have low boost(like 5psi) so that
Troy can put some K's on it to run it in and make sure all is good. Once it has k's on it back to the dyno to wind the boost up. The other thing is
it's not a high redline engine. Prolly set limiter at about 6500rpm from memory of cam specs.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on July 4th, 2008 at 11:42 AM |
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Not a good idea to crank it without starting it period. The camshaft and cylinder bores get splash lubricated from oil from the crankshaft. This
doesnt get effective until RPM is above 1500.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 4th, 2008 at 05:06 PM |
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We pulled the plugs out and rigged up and oil can with a long thin tube to squirt small amounts of oil down into the bores whilst cranking. As for the
amount of oil, the dry sump tank holds about 8 litres of oil plus the oil in the lins,cooler etc etc. So all up we put something like 10 odd litres
into the engine by removing the lines and filling the cooler and filling oil filter then opening the inline tap on the outlet on the tank to allow oil
to flow around. We put nearly 3 litres into sump before filling tank so that there was plenty of oil in there before cranking it over.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the privilege
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| posted on July 12th, 2008 at 10:08 AM |
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Ok this week the rest of the sensors and wiring was completed. they did a power up to see if all sensors etc were sending signal and everything was
playing the game. Bingo everything is good to go!! Boost solenoid was mounted up nicely and all checks done. Yesterday they cranked it over to get all
the timing marks sorted to get ready for start up. Autronic ECU was updated with the latest software and powered up and configured to the car.
Troy is going to get a ring folder when the car is completed with all the info for the car. It will contain the wiring diagram with all wiring colours
and what sensors are where info which could come in handy!! Also it will contain all the tuning settings printed out plus saved on a disc for future
reference. So fuel pressures, boost pressures, timing, ignition etc etc will all be saved in the folder incase we are away somewhere and need
something changed we have the info to present to a tuner if the need be.
This week they will start the car and firstly check everything over before the car goes on the dyno. So hopefully no leaks of any sort and everything
is all AOK then onto the dyno for the run in tune with next to no boost. If all goes to plan this is how it will be turning up to the dyno day next
saturday. Once we put some k's on it back to the dyno for full boost and tune. Hopefully this will all happen before Valla. Guys at the dyno are keen
to hear just what it sounds like but certainly not as keen as Troy is to actually hear it running after 6 odd years.....
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 15th, 2008 at 07:49 PM |
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Car got started today!!! All went well till what looks like the turbo drain is too restrictive and not letting enough oil drain out of turbo back to
sump. On the hunt for a scavenge pump to fit in the drain to pull oil out of turbo back to sump.
Have heard of Holley Red/blue fuel pumps being used but they are used to pumping cold fuel not highly aerated red hot oil so unsure of life span
and/or drama's associated. Have emailed Albins about the pumps on their website so have to wait and see. If you have any other suggestions speak now
as time is of the essence!!!!
Plus this car must go to Valla!!! And running!!! Cause I hate pushing it around LOL
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 15th, 2008 at 07:53 PM |
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send westi a message, he has a pump on his gearbox............and would have a reccomendation anyways
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on July 15th, 2008 at 09:21 PM |
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I have a scavenge pump I was going to use on my turbo (brand new) and little custom surge tank. I was going to send it over to Marty Staggs to offset
some of the cost of my current engine fabrication over there....but haven't committed to sending it over. I had it organised by Heath here on AVD
which was greatly appreciated, but with my turbo being over the gearbox I won't need it. Give me a call (or PM) if you are interested. I'd just want
to make back what it cost me, not in for profit of course.
This is it:
http://www.turbowerx.com/Products/Electric_Scavenge_Pumps/Electric_Scavenge_P...
Cheers
Al
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 06:22 AM |
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Pm sent Al. thanks!!
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76bug
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 09:10 AM |
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um why not run a larger diameter oil drain from the turbo to the sump?
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 09:27 AM |
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The turbo is mounted quite low.
Apparently it is the 'fall' rather than the -8 or -10 line not being big enough.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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76bug
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 10:14 AM |
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ok that makes sense, so it would be more of a flow issue rather than restrictive
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 05:53 PM |
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Thanks Al for the scavenge pump. Just got home from the dyno trying to work out where to mount it. It will be mounted off the rhs bumper bracket under
the car as that is really the only space left that it will fit. Lines will run to it easy enough and then to sump no problems at all. Troy is going
home to construct a bracket so when the car arrives home tomorrow night we can get straight onto it. Power supply through a relay that gets power once
key is on.
We asked if the car was loud at idle and the answer was a resounding "YES" from the guys that work in the workshop. Bill said "might be an idea to
get something to muffle the sound as it sounded like a very angry dak dak". So I guess once it is tuned we'll put the supertrapp on for street
use.....
Ahh the joys of creating something out of the ordinary.....
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 06:17 PM |
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There's nothing wrong with an angry sounding dak dak! Good call with the diaphram scavange pump too. Hollys wont pump oil till its hot due to the
viscosity not allowing the veins in the pump to swing out properly. The only type of pumps that do work well are gear pumps and diaphram. I went
through that same series of issues with the oil return on my first turbo engine. Started with -8 and ended up with 3/4".
Apart from the oil return issues I was having I also found out that all of the GT28R turbo's dont infact have an internal oil restrictor as some of
the "egg spurts" would tell you. And belive me ive heard it from one of the largest garret distributors in australia... The BB series turbo's are
supposed to have an internal oil flow restrictor, but MANY of the turbo's that come into the country are shipped as bolt on replacements for many of
the various jap imports around. Eg the GT25R/GT28R/GT28RS/GT2871 are bolt on low mount compatible for all the Nissan SR20DET engines, and the
GT30/GT3071 etc are bolt on compatible with all the Nissan RB20/25DET engines. All the nissan engines have a banjo fitting that screws into the
engine block that has a flow restrictor designed into it. They dont have a 4-5mm hole like a normal 12mm banjo fitting.
On three occasions ive seen seals blown on turbos and oil leaking into the compressor and exhaust housings because it cant flow down the factory 3/4"
pipe fast enough when its cold. Two of these were on jap imports too, because they did away with the factory plumbing and wanted to use fancy speedflo
hose and fittings that have a 4mm hole in them, instead of a properly sized restrictor.
The correct size hole is 0.035" and you can make your own restrictor by filling a brass or steel fitting with solder, and then drilling it. I drill
the fitting first to about 3/4 of the way through to get a clean metal surface and then fill with normal solder. It wont melt during engine operation
as the solder melting point is 375 degrees C. The fitting operates a little bit above oil temp.. perhaps 130 degrees or so.
You can also buy them from http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=A...
Having the correct size restrictor solve the oil drain problem completely for me. The oil return on my 2332 turbo engine went to the side of the vw
crankcase, not the deep sump. The turbo was still in a low mount position as you can see from the pic in my signature.
Hope that helps...
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 16th, 2008 at 09:41 PM |
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Ian will that size restrictor be ok with the turbo Troy is running? It's a T3/4 Hybrid with larger wheels etc etc fitted into it when it was built
up. Rated to 500hp by the guy who did the turbo for us.
I'm fairly new into the world of mucking around with turbos so this has been a huge learning curve after doing nothing but N/A motors of all sorts
for years. Certainly appreciate the info you give and I research everything you've suggested which has helped us a fair bit in getting this car to
where it is. Last night I was reading about restrictors in the feed line to the turbo but the context I was reading it was used on a 400 cu V8 with
one hell of a big oil pump with a dry sump set up. I summarised that because of the size and the volume that this pump could pump it needed the
restrictor. The Peterson pump Troy has on the engine can pump some serious oil pressure as you'd know and it did cross my mind under the back of the
car this arvo whether the pump pressure was too much for the turbo and whether this would in turn blow the seals and we get a rather large smoke
screen happening!!
thanks again for the input! Appreciate it!!
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 20th, 2008 at 04:39 PM |
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Wel the drain problem is now solved and no more leaks lol but it looks like the turbo also might have a seal leaking. Fitting a new drain line and
scavenge pump made it a whole lot better but it still has oil in the pipe so turbo is now out and getting sent away to be repaired/ rectified.
I'm beginning to think that this car doesn't want to leave the comfort of Troy's garage.........
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 20th, 2008 at 07:33 PM |
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Troy's Type 3 has hit another big hurdle. He just called and told me that the turbo has totally shit itself. After mucking around getting the drain
and scavenge pump right he tried it and still oil coming out the pipe. So turbo off means pulling 2/3 of the pipes and stuff in the back off to
remove. He did this then Pulled the exhuast housing and the worst was seen. Metal everywhere!! Something has failed even without the turbo being
spooled up. Shit you to tears to be honest. He isn't happy at all. Luckily when we designed the oil system all oil goes through the coolers etc then
the last thing is through the Shawn geers oil filter before it hits the engine. Pulled the filter off and filings in it. So basically remove all oil
system and flush everything. We'll drop the oil and remove the strainer plate and check to see if any has got to the engine at all. Prolly the saving
grace is that the engine hasn't been revved or run for very long at all. So a lot of cleaning and flushing then checking everything for any traces.
The thing is that the guy who did the turbo was Troy's neighbour who at the time worked for a turbo mob here in Brissy and built it up after hours on
the side. Troy moved house and the other guy has moved as well so can't really take any course of action plus he did it over 6 years ago. So sitting
in a box in a nice sealed plastic bag isn't good or he just stuffed up.
Fingers crossed the engine is all ok. So yet again no Type 3 for Valla!! So time now for my van to undergo a quick freshen up and get on the road in
the next 2 weeks!!
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on July 20th, 2008 at 08:33 PM |
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Dam that sounds pretty serious. I really recommend doing a stipdown and check the engine over just to be on the safe side. You'd be surprised just
how much metal a filter does let through. Remember most filters have a bypass valve so they arent necessarily filtering oil at all when its cold due
to the viscosity being thicker and it not being able to flow all through the filter.
From personal experience when the cam and the lifters decided to eat eachother in my 2332 turbo engine, having a filter there actually did diddly
squat to saving the oil pump and the bearings. Fortunatly the crank was nitrided though even the surface of that was not what it was when it was
assembled.
For the cost of a set of bearings, oil and a gasket kit it will be the smartest thing you can do. Especially considering the coin already invested.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on July 20th, 2008 at 10:08 PM |
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Man, so sorry to hear that, but I think Ian is right. If you are pulling off 2/3s, may as well do everything, rebuild it and know that there is no
metal in the motor.
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Turbo54
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| posted on July 21st, 2008 at 09:57 AM |
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Hi, sounds like dramas but it will all be worth it in the long run. Can you please post some pics of the pump and tank. I got the tanks designed so
one fitting was from turbo, one was a breather and one down the bottom was the pickup for the pump.
You can also mount the pump anywhere you want as it can suck oil from anywhere but the breather is so it doesn't suck the oil out of the turbo. It
can also run dry and not harm it. Did you end up running water through the turbo or just block it off or run oil through the water galleries?
Thanks
Heath
Turbo54
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 22nd, 2008 at 08:26 PM |
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Will post some pics when i get a chance. Engine is coming out and getting stripped. Troy pulled the turbo apart and found absolutely no evidence of
where the metal came from. Everything looked good. So engine is all of a sudden not looking so good. After spending so much money for this to happen
is pretty much gut wrenching for Troy. so many thoughts and reasons fly around your head just looking for a reason as to why. One that does spring to
mind is the car got started with the oil tap turned off and run for a period of time. We have started the car and run it for approx 30 secs to look at
the original turbo issue. Oil tap was turned on before it got started as Troy turned it on while I turned the key. The only other people to have
started the car is the guys at the dyno and I'm guessing they'll prolly not own to it anytime soon.
So back to square one stripping the engine and everything out and starting again. We are getting very good at removing and replacing this set up
that's for sure.
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westi
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what the
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| posted on July 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 PM |
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sorry to hear the news,
hopefully it's a small problem, nothing major.
is that an ali pully and ali case,if so ,i think that the problem will only be minor. pully grabbed is my guess.
don't let it get on top of you.head down arse up,before you know it your back on track again.if you know what i mean.
down sharon.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 24th, 2008 at 07:03 AM |
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Engine is nearly stripped of all accessories apart from a few oil lines etc. should be out of car and possibly stripped down to see what the hell
happened. Stay tuned.....
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on July 27th, 2008 at 01:56 PM |
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Engine stripped down today and thankfully no signs of an internal failure of any sorts. Better to be safe than sorry. Turbo wil be sent away for
inspection by the Turbo experts to see if they find something....
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fangdangle
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| posted on July 31st, 2008 at 05:44 PM |
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soo unreal, long live t3s
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on August 9th, 2008 at 10:32 PM |
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Well turbo will be back this week all ready to go. Engine will be back together not too far after. Turbo was checked out and all is ok. Looks like
when the turbo was originally built it wasn't cleaned out properly and the oil problem was simply the drain and pressure related. The metal in the
housing has been there since day dot but if you didn't pull it apart you could see a thing. Even trying to blow it out with an airline wouldn't have
shifted it.
Something so simple and ridiculous all because someone didn't pay enough attention to detail and clean things out properly. As turbo guy said you'll
only find it once it has oil pressure and circulation. PITA. Also apon looking at the turbo and the work done to it he says he has seen the exact same
turbo on a VL push 440hp on 25 psi.
So some happy news at last and hasn't worked out to be too damm an expensive to check out.
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westi
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what the
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| posted on August 10th, 2008 at 10:47 AM |
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so hurry up and put it back together then.
we need some vid's of the baby in action.
i rang you the other day but your phone was of.
i will give you a call again soon,if you have a spot in a marque i will put in for it,
keep us all posted ,can't wait to hear it running.
down sharon.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on August 10th, 2008 at 10:49 AM |
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yeah, i'll be in on a marquee too!......
hurry up boys, not long till Warrick, hanging to see it tuned and out there
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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Location: Murrumba Downs - Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Orange
Mood: What Kombi wants vs what Kombi gets are nowhere near the same...
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| posted on August 10th, 2008 at 10:24 PM |
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Net alone Troy waiting and working on it for the last 6 odd years to get it to this stage and then me working on it days here and there i can tell you
we both are busting our chops to sit in it and go for a drive. Just hearing it idle albeit roughly before we pulled it down I think we both had a
smile from ear to ear even though we knew it was coming out and being pulled down.
Westi got your missed call I think the other day when optus network was playing up again....
Damo will see what I can do as far as a marquee spot goes....
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the privilege
Posts: 2534
Threads: 53
Registered: March 11th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Murrumba Downs - Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Orange
Mood: What Kombi wants vs what Kombi gets are nowhere near the same...
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| posted on August 11th, 2008 at 01:01 PM |
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Engine is back together and Troy picked it up yesterday. So this week is engine back in car and put the jigsaw puzzle back together. will hopefully
have it running inside a week or so. Then back to the dyno for rest of tune.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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westi
Custom Title Time!
what the
Posts: 1610
Threads: 28
Registered: August 30th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: milperra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: not blue, pink
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| posted on August 11th, 2008 at 06:48 PM |
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sweet.hurry up.
down sharon.
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