| [ Total Views: 6106 | Total Replies: 134 | Thread Id: 91614 ] |
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 Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 08:11 PM |
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This
1956cc
76 CB crank
90.5 Mahle B pistons
CB 5.5" rods
DRD 40x35 heads 55cc, single heavy springs
CB 2241 cam (110 with less lift and more duration)
1.25 rockers on CB solid shafts
manton chromoly pushrods
1.5" CB merged header with single quiet pack
44 IDF webers, match ported manifolds, CSP linkage
Bosch 019 with points, German blue coil, German bosch wires, NGK plugs
German doghouse shroud and tin, full flowed, CB thin sump
Dynamic balance by CB
or this
The engine is a 1776cc with:
Completely balanced...
40mm IDF carbs
Comp. ratio of 8.3:1
Engle 110 cam
C/W crank 69mm
90.5 mahle pistons
New Doghouse shroud, tins and oil cooler Full flow/oil filter
Kennedy stage 1 p/p & Sach disc
Port & polished stock heads
Solid shaft rockers with 1.1:1 rockers, HD lifters & springs
BMD pulley system
1.5 Berg oil sump
26mm oil pump
AEM wideband sensor
1 1/2" ceramic coated header with s/s Phatboy muffler
009 dist.
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LOWBUG
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 09:26 PM |
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Paul, go with the 1776 you can build a really grunty engine this way that will last, also go to an engine builder/vw specialist mechanic that can
instal and tune for you and warrant thier work, even I can throw an engine together
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 09:30 PM |
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Either could be great little engines.
Whichever has been built by someone who knows what they're doing and cares about the result is the engine to buy.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 09:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LOWBUG
Paul, go with the 1776 you can build a really grunty engine this way that will last, also go to an engine builder/vw specialist mechanic that can
instal and tune for you and warrant thier work, even I can throw an engine together
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Funny you should suggest the 1776 Adam from RAW said the same to me today. Adam and mick are probably who will build it for me when I eventually
decide to replace mine.
So whats the difference between a 1776 and 1916? Does it mean the block is bored further therefore increasing the risk of cracking?
Will the 1776 be a more torque engine ?
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LOWBUG
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 09:46 PM |
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The only difference is piston size, case has to be bored regardless. 1776 for me is a personal choice, really reliable and hard to kill, the same
could be said for the 1916. I would suggest spending money on heads, if they can' breath it dosn' matter how big the engine is, cam is important
too.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 10:38 PM |
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So what is the difference between a 1776 and 1916 are there advantage and disadvantages?
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scot70wagon
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 11:23 PM |
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paul i have a 1916 in my squareback. i have been in strokers and really strong 1776. it will come down to personal choice. i,m always told the 1916
runs hotter although mine runs no hotter then my 1600 superbug. strokers versus big bore is an age old argument . out of 20 blokes standing around you
will often have 20 different engine combos which are the BEST with 20 different reasons why. small cams or big cams? 36 idfs or 45 or 48 carbs? check
who runs competitive engines at hill climbs, Two names come to mind, Ben durie with his 1904 strokers and stan with his 1916. Both behave differently
and both are equally loved by their respective owners. Jump in some ones car with an engine done. If you need to see what a stan engine is like your
more then welcome to take mine for a spin.
ALL GOOD THINGS HAPPEN IN NEWCASTLE. JUST ASK A NOVACASTRIAN :  !! |
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zayus
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| posted on July 21st, 2011 at 11:25 PM |
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Hi Paul,
The difference between a 1776cc and a 1916cc, is the diameter of the piston.
A 1776 uses a piston with a diameter of 90.5 mm
The diameter of the piston in a 1916 is larger - 94 mm.
Both engines use the same size crank - 69mm.
If it is easier, a 1776 is 1.7 litre engine, and a 1916 is a 1.9 litre engine.
The difference and advantage - a 1916 is a bigger engine.
The 94 mm barrels (cylinder) are thicker and stronger than 90.5 mm barrels.
Stan's website, has a very easy to read tech article on building a hot 1916 VW engine.
The story is over 15 years old, but it contains plenty of images, and confirms the basics of a hot VW motor.
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 08:00 AM |
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You might as well go the 1916cc as the cost difference will be nil or negligible.
I had a 1776 and it was a great motor too. So you won't be disappointed.
Spend money on heads is a good call. This is where the power/performance lies.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 08:13 AM |
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Thanks guys this has been such a good thread for myself in learning about engine selection. from what i can tell the difference between a 1776 and
1916 is piston size.
Will a 1776 run cooler? and what would be a good set of heads to get?
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 09:30 AM |
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Yeah 1776's are great...really happy I went that way for what I do with the car
As far as heads and cam combos, it all has to relate to each other, no point having a big lift and duration cam if the porting and valve size won't
flow the air to use it....vice verser etc etc....this is where the careful selection of matching parts gets tricky and somewhat more for experienced
builders or WELL researched enthusiast
Then the spring selection, carb size, Venturi selection, jets, air correctors etc etc to optimize fuel delivery in the rpm range the cam and head
performance combination "performs" in
Confused again lol ?
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 02:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Yeah 1776's are great...really happy I went that way for what I do with the car
As far as heads and cam combos, it all has to relate to each other, no point having a big lift and duration cam if the porting and valve size won't
flow the air to use it....vice verser etc etc....this is where the careful selection of matching parts gets tricky and somewhat more for experienced
builders or WELL researched enthusiast
Then the spring selection, carb size, Venturi selection, jets, air correctors etc etc to optimize fuel delivery in the rpm range the cam and head
performance combination "performs" in
Confused again lol ?
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Well it is starting to make sense I have spoken to two engine builders and both had recommended a 1776 but both said spend the money on a good set of
heads.
What are a good set of heads?
Carb size i have secured some italian delortos ida 40
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 06:17 PM |
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I'm still pretty keen on getting a 1776cc.
Think that'll be the maximum I'll go.
I don't want anything that can be used for dragging and so forth,
I am after an efficient engine but can still give people a fright at the lights.
That is what I see a 1776cc to be anyway.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 06:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SebastienPeek
I'm still pretty keen on getting a 1776cc.
Think that'll be the maximum I'll go.
I don't want anything that can be used for dragging and so forth,
I am after an efficient engine but can still give people a fright at the lights.
That is what I see a 1776cc to be anyway.
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looks like we are both after the same outcome I still have a lot of research to do but heading in the right direction
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 06:29 PM |
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Me and you both Paul, lots of research to do before diving into it!
Going to talk to a couple of the VW mechanics around here and see what they recommend,
will post up here what they say some time next week.
Until then, I shall dream of my nice and new 1776cc when it comes 
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LOWBUG
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 10:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Paulc1964au
| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Yeah 1776's are great...really happy I went that way for what I do with the car
As far as heads and cam combos, it all has to relate to each other, no point having a big lift and duration cam if the porting and valve size won't
flow the air to use it....vice verser etc etc....this is where the careful selection of matching parts gets tricky and somewhat more for experienced
builders or WELL researched enthusiast
Then the spring selection, carb size, Venturi selection, jets, air correctors etc etc to optimize fuel delivery in the rpm range the cam and head
performance combination "performs" in
Confused again lol ?
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Well it is starting to make sense I have spoken to two engine builders and both had recommended a 1776 but both said spend the money on a good set of
heads.
What are a good set of heads?
Carb size i have secured some italian delortos ida 40
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Funny, I'm starting to hear things that have been said before
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 PM |
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^^^
 .......oops
soooooo now i've read the thread i didn't open for a couple of days......can we agree to be in agreeance then? 
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QuikBug
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 PM |
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Good reading this post. After months of changing my mind many of times I have decided to go with a 1776 engine for my next project.
I have ordered a custom 1776 from CBB to be built for my 71 low light. I have decided to spend the extra and go efi rather than bigger capacity as the
low light will eventually be my daily driver.
The main reason I choose CBB is I have had two motors from them for different projects in the past and never had a problem. Mike and Ryan have always
had time for my sometimes stupid questions.
Only made the mistake once in trying to set on up myself, I will never go there again cost me twice as much as it should have.
Go the 1776 you will be happy !!
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 22nd, 2011 at 11:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LOWBUG
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Paulc1964au
| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
Yeah 1776's are great...really happy I went that way for what I do with the car
As far as heads and cam combos, it all has to relate to each other, no point having a big lift and duration cam if the porting and valve size won't
flow the air to use it....vice verser etc etc....this is where the careful selection of matching parts gets tricky and somewhat more for experienced
builders or WELL researched enthusiast
Then the spring selection, carb size, Venturi selection, jets, air correctors etc etc to optimize fuel delivery in the rpm range the cam and head
performance combination "performs" in
Confused again lol ?
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Well it is starting to make sense I have spoken to two engine builders and both had recommended a 1776 but both said spend the money on a good set of
heads.
What are a good set of heads?
Carb size i have secured some italian delortos ida 40
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Funny, I'm starting to hear things that have been said before
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Chris,
you are so right you pointed me in that direction now i need to go into detail of what i should build based on a 1776
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 01:01 AM |
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okay, i will have a go.....
budget build
lightened flywheel
1700pd kep plate, springless disc
counterweighted 69mm crank
new standard VW rods
90.5 pistons with ring gaps SET, berg circlip gudgeon retainers
helical cam gears
....all above balanced as set
new mag crankcase..8mm berg head studs....machined by Stan
26mm plugged/oringed pump, berg pressure relief cover, full flowed filter and cooler
engle 120 and matching lifter set
los panchito heads....... finished/cleaned chambers by hand and 3 angle valve job with at least one shimm under springs for chaffing.......dual
springs and manifolds matched and doweled.....run in with only single spring
solid shaft vw rockers with swivel feet
berg push rods
7.5;1 compression with 1.5mm deck height
berg or pobjoy mini sump with welded pick up extension
009 dizzy 5800rpm limiter rotor with electronic ignition and bosch transformer electronic coil
magnacore plug wires from thundercords aus
1 1/2 berg heater box exhaust system (cause i'm cold right now)
34 or 35mm vents in those 40mm dells
berg linkage and breather box with vented rocker covers and air cleaner tops
mechanical fuel pump checked to 2.5psi
NOW...anyone can order the parts but a good builder will do/outsource/check all the extras i mentioned above to give it the 5HP here 3 hp there extra
AND allow it to make RELIABLE power via proper tollerances and as such getting longevity
big budget?.....as per mine and make 100HP @ the wheels, proven!
you mentioned taking the missus for a spin....if you want to impress her and a friend in the car at the same time, step up to a 1916.....bigger
capacity will carry the extra people better IMHO.
loads of great builders nearby you.....CBB for sure Mike is thorough, experienced and will go the extra mile to get YOUR engine to produce and live
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 07:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by QuikBug
Good reading this post. After months of changing my mind many of times I have decided to go with a 1776 engine for my next project.
I have ordered a custom 1776 from CBB to be built for my 71 low light. I have decided to spend the extra and go efi rather than bigger capacity as the
low light will eventually be my daily driver.
The main reason I choose CBB is I have had two motors from them for different projects in the past and never had a problem. Mike and Ryan have always
had time for my sometimes stupid questions.
Only made the mistake once in trying to set on up myself, I will never go there again cost me twice as much as it should have.
Go the 1776 you will be happy !!
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thanks for your input I'd be interested to see how you go, what budget do you have for this new engine? What are the specs of the CBB engine? New
case? crank, pistons etc?
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 07:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hellbugged
okay, i will have a go.....
budget build
lightened flywheel
1700pd kep plate, springless disc
counterweighted 69mm crank
new standard VW rods
90.5 pistons with ring gaps SET, berg circlip gudgeon retainers
helical cam gears
....all above balanced as set
new mag crankcase..8mm berg head studs....machined by Stan
26mm plugged/oringed pump, berg pressure relief cover, full flowed filter and cooler
engle 120 and matching lifter set
los panchito heads....... finished/cleaned chambers by hand and 3 angle valve job with at least one shimm under springs for chaffing.......dual
springs and manifolds matched and doweled.....run in with only single spring
solid shaft vw rockers with swivel feet
berg push rods
7.5;1 compression with 1.5mm deck height
berg or pobjoy mini sump with welded pick up extension
009 dizzy 5800rpm limiter rotor with electronic ignition and bosch transformer electronic coil
magnacore plug wires from thundercords aus
1 1/2 berg heater box exhaust system (cause i'm cold right now)
34 or 35mm vents in those 40mm dells
berg linkage and breather box with vented rocker covers and air cleaner tops
mechanical fuel pump checked to 2.5psi
NOW...anyone can order the parts but a good builder will do/outsource/check all the extras i mentioned above to give it the 5HP here 3 hp there extra
AND allow it to make RELIABLE power via proper tollerances and as such getting longevity
big budget?.....as per mine and make 100HP @ the wheels, proven!
you mentioned taking the missus for a spin....if you want to impress her and a friend in the car at the same time, step up to a 1916.....bigger
capacity will carry the extra people better IMHO.
loads of great builders nearby you.....CBB for sure Mike is thorough, experienced and will go the extra mile to get YOUR engine to produce and live
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Thanks Damien thats a really good start I shudder about price though lol
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LOWBUG
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 12:53 PM |
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You have to work out what your boundries are ie: what do you want out of an engine and whats your budget. It can get out of hand really quick, this I
know. We always want a little more. What ever you budget is, it will always cost more for what you want.
The big question is what you out of an engine, what type of driving your going to do, do you want economy or bastard like horse power, lots of torque,
do you want smooth trouble free driving, have you thought about investing in EFI which much nicer that carbs and will find more available power and
economy.
Alot of the combos seggested above may well suit the owners of them but not you, I can give you the specs on my engine and take you for a drive and
impress you by scaring the shit out of you, but Ive gone to the extremes of turbo charging and EFI and a shit load on money over a period of time.
All the internal deatails aren't that important, what is, is finding and trusting your engine builder to build you an engine to do what you want it
to do. You know who I use and would recomend, and I used to build my own engines.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 01:08 PM |
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thanks Chris really appreciate your advice i guess what i want is the following
1. Reliability is the main requirement therefore i will go for electronic ignition.
2. something that is nice but zippy
3. enough power just to raise the eyebrows of the guy sitting in his commodore or ford lol.
So to me a 1776 with delortos, electronic ignition, mild cam, good set of heads and a few finishing touches like powder coated tinware etc is what
i'd like
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 01:11 PM |
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What I find hilarious is that Paul and I both want the exact same thing, especially the ford and commodore remark 
We will find the power to destroy a V6.
EFI, 44IDAs, 110 Engle Cam (maybe even 120).
Should be very nice.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 01:24 PM |
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In terms of aesthetics here are a few examples.
Micks 56 is an absolute show piece but for me i'd never have the patience to keep it so shiny but it certainly is a benchmark
Camo's 61 has a 2300 engine but looks very clean and modern
I do like the looks of this engine from CBB
I would probably like a compromise between kev's and CBB
If you have a photo of your engine would love to see it posted here
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LOWBUG
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| posted on July 23rd, 2011 at 02:53 PM |
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Important to get advice on a good head and cam combo, if don't breath it won't go. Ive had a couple of 1776's and one in particular use to go like
a scolded cat, but that was over 20 years ago and there are better parts available now and cheaper, like CNC ported heads with matched manifolds an
absolute must in my opinion.
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vwkg
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| posted on July 27th, 2011 at 02:45 PM |
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Can anyone outline rough costs for a turnkey 1916? (I know prices will vary hugely based on individual components)
Am looking for a reliable (and more powerful than my current) engine for a daily driven 56, just trying to do a bit of research. Planning to make some
phone calls in the next few days as well.
Would like to know what to expect though.
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 27th, 2011 at 06:46 PM |
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From my research I think around $6K for a brand new engine
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Joel
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| posted on July 27th, 2011 at 08:42 PM |
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I was more than pleased with my 1776, it was just going to cost more than my entire subi conversion to fuel inject it which is only reason i'm not
running it now.
Thing I dont like about 94s is the bore cuts into the case savers, not really an issue on a mild engine but most of mine seem to end up boosted and I
can see that leading to problems.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by zayus
The 94 mm barrels (cylinder) are thicker and stronger than 90.5 mm barrels.
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Who the hell told you that?
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