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 Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 3rd, 2009 at 11:38 AM |
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Chris how would you do another turbo Kombi install now, knowing what you know from the last time? Looking to make it both as reliable, and strong, as
possible (not a 'grenade')?
Do you think it would work out easier and cheaper than a Subaru conversion? And what about performance?
I wonder if people aren't aware of what can be done with a Type 4 VW engine.
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amazeer
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| posted on June 3rd, 2009 at 02:03 PM |
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geez thats a loaded question.
If I had my dream kombi in the state of mind I am in now, it would be a green/white 77on microbus. It would be type 4. It would be a mild 2 litre with
a small turbo running around 7psi boost. I'd have the turbo and water to air intercooler in the fuel tank area, and a long range alloy fuel tank
under the rear seat. The turbo would feed into the orignal fuel injection throttle body. This way the engine bay would look original apart from
missing an air filter. It's not a drag strip runner, but respectable. I guess it has the same amount of get up go as a 6 cylinder falcadore. It pulls
hills in top gear easily.
This is all an evolutions of what I had on the ill fated valla trip where I melted the heads. That wasnt due to any fault of the engine design, that
was due to some dubious carb jetting and possibly the ignition retard not working, bolted to an unknown stock 2 litr engine that I found lying out the
back of hellbug. There are plenty of witnesses to that trip to attest to its durability. It started pinging its head off before I left Wollonong,
towing my 400kg trailer with fastback on top, pretty much every tool I own, trolley jack, ramps, stands etc, and a family's worth of contents in the
van Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on
to Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done
that.
For me aI wouldnt use a replacement engine unti I wanted MORE power than an ej20 turbo. If I wanted more than that, I would modify the subaru Its not
just a matter of bolting a turbo onto your kombi. You have to fab your intake and exhaust, you need to buy a counterweighted crank else you'll flog
centre main. Type 4 heads shit me with their exhaust ports. Radiators on the front of kombis arent attractive. I dunno.
Could never do a rotary conversion because they are rotaries. Tripe and testicles are meat, by I dont want to eat them.
 
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 matberry
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| posted on June 3rd, 2009 at 09:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by amazeer
Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on to
Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done
that.
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This is the part that I love, an air cooled Volksy has to be the worst treated bit of machinery on the planet. All manner of backyard mechanics, done
a million miles with ill fitting excuses for replacement parts, backpackers continually taking them around Australia with a VERY limited budget, and
they still seem to keep on plodding to get you there. It's the LACK of water that allows this to happen, do that with your Superglue. (Not that I'm
canning the Jap flat four or even the wbxr or any pumper for that matter as they all have thier pro's and con's)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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coletrickle
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| posted on June 3rd, 2009 at 09:43 PM |
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I've gotta agree matt nothing take abuse like a vw air cooled engine although i am currently one and a half years into a study on the abuse and
concequences of no maintance on a wasser boxer i'm pretty impressed so far.But back to the subies vs aircooled vw's whatever floats your boat'but
don't call me on a sunday looking for some bit that you need for your subie but i've got plenty of shit for air cooled beetles!
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 helbus
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| posted on June 14th, 2009 at 11:40 PM |
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I like the look of my 1993 Subaru Liberty. It looks like a 1975 VW Microbus. Pretty cool eh?
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pete wood
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 12:51 PM |
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I've been away for a while, but I like the thrust of most the discussion here. If I can make a couple of points.
first up, if you want an engine that produces more than 120hp the subaru is less $$$ and lasts longer.
secondly, aircooled motors are lighter so that helps them with less hp. however the EJ20t totally outclasses all but the highest $$$ aircooled motors
for usuable power and torque
thirdly, re racing and aircooled VS subaru; it always comes down to the driver. we have some very talented drivers driving aircooled cars. i'd
suggest they'd be fast no matter whether they drove a groupA commodore or goggomobile so I don't think the argument is valid. I raced on the weekend
against another buggy with an aircooled motor. Both VWs, different engines, who will win? The better driver of course... Hope that was me, but I'm
not holding my breath. 
fourthly, most people fitted subarus because they LIKED their aircooled motors but couldn't afford a hipo aircooled motor or saw the
subaru as similar but an easy modern package. Like someone else compared it to putting an LS1 in an early holden. so again, in their minds it was
never aircooled VS subaru. it was "I upgrade my aircooled".
I personally looked into a supercharged type4 engine for my buggy and the cost of the engine (without managment and supercharger) was outside my
affordable range. I bought an EJ25 when they were uncommon and expensive and I still think it was cheaper than a serious aircooled engine. Do I hate
aircooled motors? NO WAY. My plan is to build an aircooled rally car with my kids in years to come. So I'd finish by saying that the VW scene in
Sydney has been ruined at various points by an "US and THEM" mentality. This is just another version of this. If you don't like subarus, don't buy
one, but don't exclude, put down, abuse or question people's loyalty for choosing a subaru engine (I've suffered all of the previous). Try walking
a mile in their shoes first and you might understand why they decided as they did.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 01:45 PM |
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For the cost arguement, this is what my V6 conversion cost (scroll to bottom);
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/V6_baja/january.html
It turned out way cheaper than even modifying the 1916 type 1 VW engine that I had in there, and it is a lot more powerful and refined.
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trickysimon
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 06:50 PM |
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Certainly alot cheaper than aircooled. I'm not long off the 5k mark on the 1915 I'm building and I'm still not even finished.
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pete wood
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 08:53 PM |
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you don't want to overplay the cheap angle of subarus though. a basic 1600/1641 is a much cheaper proposition than converting over to an EJ. and
there's 1916s and 1916s. an hillclimb champion spec 1916 is going to be a STACK more $$$ than a stockish kadron fed 1916.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 09:54 PM |
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You can do both cheap, and both expensive.
Pay only for parts with a 1916 and it will be a lot less than if you pay someone to do everything.
Same with an engine conversion. Do it all yourself like me and it will be cheap, pay someone else and it will cost a lot.
Having said that, doing everything yourself the engine conversion ends up cheaper. My 1916 had twin webers, 044 heads, high ratio rockers, parts that
add up even when you do all the labour yourself.
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matberry
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| posted on June 15th, 2009 at 10:09 PM |
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This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one
of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 08:09 AM |
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The $25k subi would want to make way more power than any VW engine would.
There was a modified version of my 2.5L V6 for sale that had a lot of work including twin turbos. It was for sale for $25-30k but it made 800HP and
was reliable enough for circuit racing not just a dyno queen.
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 09:13 AM |
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She aint no dyno queen, built for street and race, with quite a few more ponies than std. Still a sh1t load of $$$ tho. As for more power than 'ANY'
VW...come on Wes, do you really think so....
I have seen a few examples of more power from a vw than subi when compared pound for pound of boost pressure, I've even driven some, but I do like
the equation when talking stock and $$$'s for replacement, it's just all the other crap that is needed to fit one, it soon takes the edge off the
performance with all the extra weight added.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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pete wood
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 09:15 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one
of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
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I'd like to hear more about that conversion. he must have one heck of a trans to go behind it. 
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 09:20 AM |
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Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and
air....
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 09:34 AM |
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I sold my turn key 2275cc engine, did my conversion & came out $3200 in front. I went from 117hp @ the wheels to 201hp @ the wheels in 5 weeks.
But it doesn't matter.
As long as u enjoy your vw each time u turn the key, thats all that matters.
Jak
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pete wood
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 11:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and
air....
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pics pics pics. is it gonna be street regoed?! 
BTW, Jak, your car is awesome and a great advert for driving your VW no matter what engine it may or may not have.
p.s. love the new wheels too. it looks horn! 
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 12:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Jak Rizzo
But it doesn't matter.
As long as u enjoy your vw each time u turn the key, thats all that matters.
Jak
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Couldn't agree more^^^.
Cars above aren't mine and the owners are shy.
Might find some teasers tho
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 12:59 PM |
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I grafted the dash in from a 996 ...should look cool
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Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Mick058
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 01:06 PM |
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wow, i like the gauge idea - awesome!
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pete wood
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 02:53 PM |
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so is it getting rego? or is it a play only machine?
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 03:15 PM |
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Can u get ADR approval for those brakes? or is it just for the track.
Also, what is inside a $25'000 subaru engine?
I had my WRX engine rebuilt back in 2005 for about $2200. 20thou oversize pistons, ACL race bearings, balanced bottom end, ARP head studs, new water
pump, timing belt etc. Was also picked up delivered to my house. It has 201hp & 205ft of torque @ the wheels on 8psi boost. by turning the boost
controller up to 13psi I can get 250hp@ the wheels. I've done over 113'000ks after the rebuild. It scares me daily. Has done over 18 track days too.
I just don't kow how I could spend 25k on my engine. This is meant to be of no offence Matt, purely curiosity. it's great to hear of other peoples
big budget build ups
regards
Jak
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 03:33 PM |
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I dont know all the details as I wasn't commisioned for the engine build. It goes something like....2.5 liter, new sti crank and block, bigger
injectors, big turbo, probably flash pistons...guaranteed over 500 rwhp :-) . Then the cooling system and intercoolers are extra. I think one reason
the big tag is due to building the first version to 300hp then giving it back to the engine shop still in the same shrink wrap and saying "I need
more power".....nice to be some hey
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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ibmoknegawsklov
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 06:01 PM |
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just an intersting side note. I have yet to see a vw motor transplanted into a subaru.............mmmmmmmmmmm
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 06:06 PM |
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because it wouldn't have enough power to move a subaru 
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pete wood
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 06:15 PM |
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I dunno, the veyron has a motor built by vw.
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ibmoknegawsklov
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 06:27 PM |
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lol, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Veyron powerd mid engined baja
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 06:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ibmoknegawsklov
lol, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Veyron powerd mid engined baja
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Now ya talkin, sorta an offroad version of this from another thread here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chreIG-6NXo
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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pete wood
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 07:54 PM |
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look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with
them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here
are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they
seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. 
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matberry
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| posted on June 16th, 2009 at 08:01 PM |
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I think boxer is the most important component, then comes modern ....l then ohc efi and a bit of h2o can't be all that bad....or maybe turbo the
wbxr......
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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