| [ Total Views: 167964 | Total Replies: 173 | Thread Id: 23861 ] |
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 FakeDino
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| posted on August 16th, 2006 at 03:25 PM |
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The VW ackerman appears to converge just in front of the rear axle. Either shortening the wheelbase, or widening the front would appear to
compensate, BUT, it's not really off in the first case. The arms on the spindles are positioned to compensate for the fact that the VW doesn't use
a drag link connecting them. Instead, the angle that the tie rods leave the pitman, and the subtle offset on the pitman for the two sides makes the
ackerman correct. If you use a drag link you will have excess ackerman. The steering arms on the spindles would need to be bent, and I don't want
to go that route. Using the longer tie rods in a center loaded rack, and including some tie rod angle (close, but not exactly like the original
pitman set-up) should be the closest compromise. I grew up on shortened buggies and know that feeling of flying just above the ground on the edge of
control.
I was considering a drag link, but for now I'm fabricating a second rack location. I can't go back to pitman because my beam mounts to the frame
in such a way that the pitman is limited in movement before hitting the frame. Before I buy anything, I'll toy with some 'tween rack locations. If
I buy, it will be a center loaded rack. The aftermarket ones all seem to have the pinion dead in the middle, and over complicate the steering wheel
linkage. I'm a spreadsheet guy too, and I'm busy with the work already done, modifying and adding little details like body height to the graph.
Since my project is a sports car, my suspension travel is small. I widened my beam, and while doing so, shortened the tosion bars. This reduces the
bump steer where I hope I can move the rack rearward without getting too much bump. Bad thing is.... the bump will ramp up steeply at the worst
time... in a nose dive braking situation, or severe body roll corner. Thanks for the great foundation to help describe the front end, I'll let you
know how I end up.
Gar |
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 matberry
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| posted on August 22nd, 2007 at 11:31 AM |
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Wes,
this is a fantastic thread and the work you have done is very comprehensive to say the least. :thumb
But lets get to the nitty gritty!!!
It's been over a year since the last post! Where have you ended up on this mission --- "to get R&P legal in Qld" ???
Cheers
Matt :thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 23rd, 2007 at 04:21 PM |
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We got to the stage of fabricating a jig to hold the rack in the correct place for installation, and had a rack all ready to go, but none of the
interested parties could be bothered during the final fabrication and going through with it 
I don't see a need to pull my car to bits to install it, and the other people interested ended up selling their buggy projects. The parts are still
around and may end up in something. The approval engineer didn't have any issues with it as we were using a combination of standard steering parts,
and we could prove the bumpsteer would be fine.
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matberry
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| posted on August 23rd, 2007 at 07:05 PM |
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Mate that sounds very interesting.. I am starting a baja project as we speak!!!
Rack sounds real good. How do we get started?
Matt
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Brad
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| posted on August 23rd, 2007 at 09:32 PM |
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My Iguana Buggy has Rack and pinion going into it, it is in there now for mock up.
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newoldmanx
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| posted on August 24th, 2007 at 10:07 AM |
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brad ive sent you a few (lots) of email's could you send me an email
exxhippy@hotmail.com
its just a car for f*%k sake
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matberry
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| posted on August 24th, 2007 at 02:24 PM |
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I'll check it out Brad, next time I'm in, assuming COR.
Matt.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Brad
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| posted on August 25th, 2007 at 03:36 PM |
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done
| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
brad ive sent you a few (lots) of email's could you send me an email
exxhippy@hotmail.com
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Done
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Brad
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| posted on August 25th, 2007 at 03:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
I'll check it out Brad, next time I'm in, assuming COR.
Matt.
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Nope it is in our other shed
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THUDKNUCKLE
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| posted on September 19th, 2007 at 07:30 PM |
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hi there guys ..... now i have a question that i thought kinda in a way is ok for this thread
a lil while back i was looking over to sandrail type looking buggies ( race i guess as they had numbers and stickers on them .. lol ) and what i
found was a ver ununusual steering setup ,, couldnt find an owner to ask about it either .. soo here is what i found
instead of runnign rack and pinion or a standard steerin box set up both of these buggies used twin vw steering boxes,,, however only one of the
steering boxes was linked to the steering colum..
it looked somthing like this ( sorry about the bad paint but you get the idea.. i hope )
now the only thoughts i had on this was to ... A ) instead of having one long arm there is now 2 short arms ,, and B) maybe add a lil bit more
resistance in the drive line ..
does anybody know anythign about this set up and if it actually has a purpose ?? and if so what ??
cheers guys
Love is a Rotary baja bug
Just be carefull  ,, something dangerous is lurkin in My garage
ready to burst out in a fit of Big Hp, high boost baja Rage .
http://groups.msn.com/GottaVW |
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THUDKNUCKLE
A.k.a.: James Stoodley
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| posted on September 19th, 2007 at 07:33 PM |
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hmm my paint picture didnt show up but basically there is to steering boxes side by side ( abotu 800 - 1000 apart) connected by a draglink style of
bar connected to 2 rose joints at eother end that link to the tie rods .... and ony one box is connected to the steering colum
not sure if that made sense :P
Love is a Rotary baja bug
Just be carefull ,, something dangerous is lurkin in My garage
ready to burst out in a fit of Big Hp, high boost baja Rage .
http://groups.msn.com/GottaVW |
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helmut
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| posted on October 1st, 2007 at 09:54 PM |
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i find it picture for you rack in buggy gold coast
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helmut
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| posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 12:42 PM |
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im think it is named volksmod?
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matberry
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| posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 07:55 PM |
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The twin steering box has already been discussed on this thread. 1970's technology.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 10:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
The twin steering box has already been discussed on this thread. 1970's technology.
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...so, about 40 years smarter than the rest of the design! :P
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 10:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
im think it is named volksmod?
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Yes, that is Kurt and Gunter, we know those guys. When they first installed that R&P in their buggy they put it in the wrong spot and it had huge bump
steer problems. I told them about all the info in this thread to help correct the issue.
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Brad
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| posted on October 2nd, 2007 at 11:16 PM |
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mmm
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
im think it is named volksmod?
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Yes, that is Kurt and Gunter, we know those guys. When they first installed that R&P in their buggy they put it in the wrong spot and it had huge bump
steer problems. I told them about all the info in this thread to help correct the issue.
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It has now been moved an is much better and in the correct position.
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helmut
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| posted on October 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
im think it is named volksmod?
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Yes, that is Kurt and Gunter, we know those guys. When they first installed that R&P in their buggy they put it in the wrong spot and it had huge bump
steer problems. I told them about all the info in this thread to help correct the issue.
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is volksmod doing instalation for customer. buggy is best i did seen in australia. do you know the swinging open hood i never see on manx buggy
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 3rd, 2007 at 11:37 AM |
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That is their buggy, but they do also build them for customers. I think the bonnet is a custom mod.
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helmut
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| posted on October 12th, 2007 at 03:36 PM |
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why it is difficult for the rack steering in the vw
:duhdid you see it
http://www2.cip1.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D425%2D170&PhotoNumber...
 and
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D425%2D165
also many company selling beam with rack mount
the rack and pinion steering into vw it is very easy
[ Edited on 12-10-2007 by helmut ]
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MikeM
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| posted on October 12th, 2007 at 05:12 PM |
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mods are easy. Doing them practically and legally is where it gets tricky.
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helmut
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| posted on October 12th, 2007 at 07:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MikeM
mods are easy. Doing them practically and legally is where it gets tricky.
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:duh this is the page 8 of "how to", "akerman", "where to put it rack is most important" etc
you are make it not easy if want
here is it you buy for $260us is about $290au bolt out bolt in
then what??
is not a-arm
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Dero
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| posted on October 12th, 2007 at 07:47 PM |
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The Key to what MikeM said though is Legal. Bolt out Bolt in does not mean it is legal for the roads in Aus. I guess even with those new beams you
gotta go through all the crap. But I have no experience with this sorta thing.
But I see your point there are stacks of products where perhaps allot of the hard work is already done in the US that can be suitable. Oh yeah and
some real nice gear 
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MikeM
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| posted on October 13th, 2007 at 01:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
the rack and pinion steering into vw it is very easy
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So I guess you have already got a blue plated and registered car on Australian roads with a rack and pinion in it and no bump steer?
The rack and pinion setups they use in the offroad race cars in the US are not legal for street use in AUS. If it was that easy we wouldn't have even
started this thread.
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helmut
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| posted on October 13th, 2007 at 02:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MikeM
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
the rack and pinion steering into vw it is very easy
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So I guess you have already got a blue plated and registered car on Australian roads with a rack and pinion in it and no bump steer?
The rack and pinion setups they use in the offroad race cars in the US are not legal for street use in AUS. If it was that easy we wouldn't have even
started this thread.
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you guess is wrong im not having car in Australia
also did you see it this car:thumb
is registered in Australia on the road yes?
:duh is same position for rack:duh
did you see it you have it also off the road race car in aust for very long with rack
[ Edited on 13-10-2007 by helmut ]
[ Edited on 13-10-2007 by helmut ]
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helmut
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| posted on October 21st, 2007 at 12:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MikeM
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
the rack and pinion steering into vw it is very easy
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The rack and pinion setups they use in the offroad race cars in the US are not legal for street use in AUS.
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for off the road racing in Australia it is here http://www.offroadracing.com.au/ many racers have been using the rack for very long in Australia too not just the U.S.A
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 21st, 2007 at 12:45 PM |
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1. A photograph of a car with something fitted to it does not mean it's legal.
2. The R&P boxes fitted to "race cars" are not legal for use on registered vehicles in Australia. They are easy to fit etc...but NOT legal. An
"Offroad race car" is NOT a registered vehicle. Isn't this discussion dead in the water yet or are people just going to go around in circles
repeating themselves??
tssnq.com.au
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helmut
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| posted on October 21st, 2007 at 07:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MickH
1. A photograph of a car with something fitted to it does not mean it's legal.
2. The R&P boxes fitted to "race cars" are not legal for use on registered vehicles in Australia. They are easy to fit etc...but NOT legal. An
"Offroad race car" is NOT a registered vehicle. Isn't this discussion dead in the water yet or are people just going to go around in
circlesrepeating themselves??
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1. " A photograph of a car with something fitted to it does not mean it's legal."
is also not mean is not legal too !!!!! car has it number plate and sticker tags !! are you say this car is not legal???
2. i am think it is more position akerman angle bump steer...was being talked in this section talk
3. i am not knowing you have car registerd for offroad in Australia you laws are very bad is this mean motor limit for registered offroad vw is same
as on the road
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helmut
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| posted on October 21st, 2007 at 07:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
My Iguana Buggy has Rack and pinion going into it, it is in there now for mock up.
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is car register for on road or off road
if is on road did you know what r&p it is legal to use it in Australia
A cockroach will live nine days without its head
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 21st, 2007 at 08:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helmut
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
My Iguana Buggy has Rack and pinion going into it, it is in there now for mock up.
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is car register for on road or off road
if is on road did you know what r&p it is legal to use it in Australia
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Whatever unit is fitted would require engineer approval to enable it to be legally registered,which Brad's will be . A "registered"car can be used
both on and off road so when you see Brads Iguana it is registered as a road vehicle but is very capable as an "offroad" car...
"Offroad race cars" are a different kettle of fish...you also can't drive them down the street....legally as they are not registered......gets confusing doesn't it.... 
tssnq.com.au
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