| [ Total Views: 259389 | Total Replies: 268 | Thread Id: 36884 ] |
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 pete wood
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 03:05 PM |
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I'm really only interested in the falcon rear brakes. The brakes I have for the front are already bordering on too big. Buggies have no weight in the
front, so instant lock up is a real issue.
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MikeM
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 03:30 PM |
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Are the rear hubs custom units as well or are they machined down VW units of some sort?
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jakjones
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 06:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
This would be far better than the usual welded hubs....
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wTF wich part of the hubs is usually welded ?
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 06:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MikeM
Are the rear hubs custom units as well or are they machined down VW units of some sort?
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As with most disc rear conversion I have seen, they are Type 3 VW components that have been welded, machined and restudded. I also added a
sleeve/spigot added to the 'nose' as I wish to have the weight of the car supported by the spigot rather than the wheel studs. Although I
personally have no issue with welded and restudded hubs, I am aware of rego/engineering certification 'resistance' to hubs modified in this manner.
It is my plan/ambition to have new one-piece hubs manufactured when I am confident they will a) work and b) I can sell enough to justify my $
investment in design/tooling costs!
[Edited on 8/6/2005 by VWCOOL]
Edit: The modified hubs mentioned and pictured here, fitted to my own car, are for my own testing/development purposes only - the are NOT intended for
sale!!!
nn[ Edited on 4-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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Che Castro
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 07:11 PM |
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For the rear hubs you can turn down some drums I think.
Jon
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 7th, 2005 at 09:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jakjones
| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
This would be far better than the usual welded hubs....
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wTF wich part of the hubs is usually welded ?
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The 'old' holes for the wheel bolts. Plus, the back of the drive plate to build=up the rear surface so all five new studs (PCD change) sit at the
same height... Of course, if you retain the VW stud pattern the welding isnt required. But for Porsche, Holden or Ford, it is
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56astro
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 09:27 AM |
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OK VWCOOL,
What's the latest news?
How long before we can buy these suckers?
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 11:27 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
OK VWCOOL,
What's the latest news?
How long before we can buy these suckers?
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I am still racking up kays on the prototype (my own car) in between doing my 'real' job and doing a couple of engine installations. Last weekend I
installed my freshened 1916 engine into my own car (Oval/IRS) and am running-in, in preparation for the Eastern Creek Powercruise this weekend. I HOPE
I can get out there and punish these big vented bastards for all they are worth! Fingers crossed...
Good news for nuts Type 3 owners... I am working on making these big vented brakes fit Type 3s, too. GTMac and I did a WRX engine conversion in his
Fasty and it needs these brakes as part of his Engineering Certificate for legal rego in NSW.
However, my machinist is a little busy... As of last Friday, he can't tell me when he can have the first Type 3 front stub axles completed. But,
that's good news for any T3 owners who wish to have big horsepower and the brakes to match.
As pictured in this thread, my car is currently using 15x6-inch AU Falcon wheels. I made the choice at the time for several reasons: a) to eliminate
the need for a stud pattern change with my chosen Falcon-spec discs (saves on machining $) and b) the Falcon 114.5mm PCD allows a choice of offsets
for different cars (to suit flared guards etc) thanks to the fact that EA-EL and AU Falcons have different backspaces (approx 95mm and 125mm).
However, in practice, I have found that the AU rim with front 205/60 tyres is not quite the 'perfect' fit that I thought it would be for cars,
especially on Beetles with lots of caster and camber, such as my own. Test-mounting EA-EL rims show that although my intentions were good - and I'm
not 100% sure yet - they look to widen the track too far, even for 'wide' guards.
For standard guards, the wheels really need to be out another 10mm or so to keep the tyre from fouling the BJ beam shock tower. I do not wish to use
spacers so I am considering a change to a Commodore/BMW stud pattern that will give me another 3-5mm clearance. (which you may recall from earlier in
the thread, is what I considered in the first place!).
Since I did all my initial measurements, I have discovered that different Commodores have different offsets/backspaces depending on model. I will need
to check all this. I did my measurements with 1997-on VT series rims with a 42P offset, but other model rims with a 37P offset rims should be a better
fit under std VW guards and get me 9mm more clearance compared to the 46P rims I have now.
This is something that I wish to trial on my own car... but the machinist is busy... so I will have to wait a while longer until he can re-stud my
custom hubs. The downside to the Commodore stud pattern is that the rotors will be 'custom' with a Holden PCD and not simply off-the-shelf Falcon
items.
I am also investigating having rear hubs manufactured for the Falcon-based rear discs that I wish to supply to match the vented fronts. I am aware
there are 'blank' hubs available elsewhere, but there is a considerable wait for supply and I wish, if possible, to use a hub design with the wheel
located 'hub centric' using the centre hole of the rim for centricity, rather than being 'stud centric' relying on the wheel studs for location of
the wheel.
My own car is running a prototype of this 'spigot' type of hub based on a Type 3 drive flange. My machinist is sourcing a quote from one of his
suppliers and I have another shop in Sydney that I need to check with. Doing the hub centre splines is a specialised process not usually undertaken by
most machinists.
In the meantime, investigations AND testing continues...
It's a bit frustrating isn't it!
nn[ Edited on 4-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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56astro
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 11:49 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
It's a bit frustrating isn't it!
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Nowhere near as much for me as it would be for you.
:thumb
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 12:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Che Castro
For the rear hubs you can turn down some drums I think.
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Yes, that is agood way to do it, but you still have the original four holes that must be welded shut if you want a stud pattern change..
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Che Castro
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 12:55 PM |
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you can get blanks that have no webbing on the back but are thicker overall than the webbed factory ones.
Jon
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rose
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 07:41 PM |
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I think they use the same brakes on VN commodore and they never stopped any good. And also I think the front brakes are also used on 1979 Sigma this
is not good.
:jesus
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 08:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rose
I think they use the same brakes on VN commodore and they never stopped any good. And also I think the front brakes are also used on 1979 Sigma this
is not good.
:jesus
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You think... uh, yes, as you read in the thread, they're VN-VS Commodore (or Corvette) callipers, designed by PBR for a 1500kg car fitted with a
250hp V8. They should be easily capable of stopping a 850kg Beetle with 150hp, wouldn't you agree?
nn[ Edited on 4-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 4th, 2005 at 11:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
I'm really only interested in the falcon rear brakes. The brakes I have for the front are already bordering on too big. Buggies have no weight in the
front, so instant lock up is a real issue.
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If your front brakes are too big, fitting discs to the rear will - technically - not assist you, per se. Think about it this way: Adding bigger brakes
to the rear without reducing effort at the front will unload the fronts... resulting in even earlier lock-up...
Let me guess... Buggy... you have larger-diameter tyres on the front than the rear? I reckon you need to adjust the bias by installing a bias valve.
Cheaper than rear discs and probably a better result
nn[ Edited on 4-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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malcolm
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| posted on August 5th, 2005 at 12:48 AM |
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vwcool if you weld the orignal holes on the hub it is illegal in vic and maybe in other states
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 5th, 2005 at 09:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by malcolm
vwcool if you weld the orignal holes on the hub it is illegal in vic and maybe in other states
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Yes, as mentioned in this thread, welded hubs are not accepted for legal rego, even though it is a practice that has been going on for eons. Any
welded suspension/steering/etc component is a big no-no. That is why I am attempting to source brand-new blank rear hubs
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 23rd, 2005 at 01:30 PM |
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For all those that have been following this thread, I will have my Oval with these prototype brakes fitted at Sawtell this weekend. Some components
are still under development etc, but come and take a look if you want. Ask me nicely, and I'll be happy to take a wheel off for a closer look. Jeez,
I might even take you for a drive...!nn[ Edited on 23-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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PrettyBlueBug
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| posted on August 23rd, 2005 at 07:14 PM |
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I don't even have a racing Beetle and I want these brakes! Poor 'lil Bug loves to lock up. 
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pete wood
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| posted on August 23rd, 2005 at 09:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
If your front brakes are too big, fitting discs to the rear will - technically - not assist you, per se. Think about it this way: Adding bigger brakes
to the rear without reducing effort at the front will unload the fronts... resulting in even earlier lock-up...
Let me guess... Buggy... you have larger-diameter tyres on the front than the rear? I reckon you need to adjust the bias by installing a bias valve.
Cheaper than rear discs and probably a better result
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I think you mean larger tyres on the fron than the back. I have already gone to a slightly smaller bore caliper on the front, (same size pad) and it
helped. Having said that, I still want rear discs at some stage.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 23rd, 2005 at 09:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Pretty_Blue_Bug
I don't even have a racing Beetle and I want these brakes! Poor 'lil Bug loves to lock up.
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I assume you mean in normal conditions...? It shouldn't do that. Some of us on here have doen track time/racing successfully with standard Beetle and
Type 3 brakes with nothing more than a front pad change. No lockup pulling a Beetle up from 140km/h+ when all is perfect...
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seagull
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 08:39 AM |
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VWCOOL
I have the jig to hold the ford backing plate in the lathe > this allows you to hold and machine the center out and thickness >allowing direct bolt up
to vw .
I also have two jigs ( hardend quality steel ) for the pcd holes for Australian & over seas cars ( no can do wide 5 ) the hole jigs fit the ford disk
or ( type three flange ) allowing you to drill the disk or blank hub to your PCD required .
Let me know if your interested as I no longer are making my kits in the west , seagull
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Special Air Service
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| posted on December 20th, 2005 at 09:57 PM |
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Any updates
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VWCOOL
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| posted on December 21st, 2005 at 08:56 AM |
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Type 3 kit will be finished real soon! I will be installed on a WRX-powered Fastback that I have been involved with.
As for the Beetle versions of these brakes - I have now racked up close to 4000km on the street and couldn't be happier with thier faultless
performance
The only thing that disappoints me is the time that it has taken to get this far with the kits' development... but almost there!
[ Edited on 20-12-2005 by VWCOOL ]
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DIY-DUB
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| posted on December 21st, 2005 at 10:27 AM |
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im gettin more interested in your project vwcool, my plans will be needing big brakes, waiting in anticipation for results info on the completed
package etc
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VWCOOL
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| posted on December 21st, 2005 at 08:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1stcarbug
im gettin more interested in your project vwcool, my plans will be needing big brakes, waiting in anticipation for results info on the completed
package etc
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Lemme guess.. you have a Super, right? Means I gotta make another kit to suit...
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56astro
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| posted on December 21st, 2005 at 08:39 PM |
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Just get the std kit done first :P 
Any ideas on where I can source Ford wheels to suit the volksie? Or maybe Porsche bolt pattern is a better option.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 18th, 2006 at 09:12 AM |
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Another update:
(wow...another four months has disappeared...)
For all those that are interested in the V-Force wheels. I saw Richard and Alex Holzl at the Nats and we determined that my big brakes DO FIT inside
the 15x6-inch V-Force wheels which makes fitting these big brakes even easier (and less expensive) as there is no stud pattern change required.
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Special Air Service
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 10:17 PM |
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VWCOOL,
How are these suckers travelling, how did you get on with engineering ?
Is everything go or did you have issues that had to be sorted ie. F+R bias adjuster etc ?
Cheers
Brendan
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 10:48 PM |
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I have driven this car hard for over 1000kms, the brakes are 
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 31st, 2006 at 10:49 PM |
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I have done close to 5000km on these and I am still shocked at how well they pull up. My doors now pop open with full braking on the flat...
However, for a number of reasons (too much work, basically...) I still haven't:
a) cooked them at a track
b) been successful with having rear 'core' hubs manufactured for legal stud conversions, and
c) determined a RRP for the front brake package
These are three things that I wish to do before I begin supply.
Bias - an aftermarket prop valve is fitted to the front line under the fuel tank on my car (Oval, IRS, 1916, 205/60/15 Falkens all round) so no dramas
with premature front or rear lockup (yes, it will be legal as it is not 'driver adjustable').
There is also a second set recently installed in a WRX-transplant Type 3 (GTMac's car). Apart from the fact I personally love omifukkengoawd braking
effort, this is the main reason I have put the effort into these V8-spec brakes - to supply legal, ventilated front disc brakes for the increasing
number of VWs with engines transplanted from cars (usually Subies) that have vented front brakes from the factory. This is a requirement of most
states' Code of Practice: brakes that meet or exceed the OE fitment must be fitted when transplanting engines. ie vented/vented etc.
I am also in the early stages of another rear disc brake design that will be smaller and lighter than the commonly-used Falcon brakes, and hopefully
offer better size, appearance and performance compatability with std Beetle front discs as a 'rear only' upgrade. If I go ahead with this kit - only
playing at this stage - it will be 4-stud only to keep costs down and be a perfect match for std Beetle/Type 3 front discs. It will offer a
worthwhile, budget-priced increase in braking for hottie air-cooled-powered cars used hard on the street and only ocassionally on the track.
Oh, yeah, and I'm also investigating getting the cost - but not quality or effectiveness - of the front brakes down to under the $2K+ I have spent
(just on front hardware - not R&D!) so far.
A lot of stuff and I can only devote about an hour a week to it all!
Thanks for the interest - U2U me if you want to know more
[ Edited on 31-5-2006 by VWCOOL ]
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