| [ Total Views: 144205 | Total Replies: 212 | Thread Id: 62624 ] |
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 vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 11:05 AM |
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That's heartbreaking Reuben.
I hope it isn't too long till you get to smile at your VW again. 
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Gracey
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 11:24 AM |
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Dude, that's gut wrenching!!
Looks like a rod let go, or maybe a piston.
Either way it ain't pretty.
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STIDUB
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 11:43 AM |
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ouch, will be interesting to see what failed 
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member 
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 06:31 PM |
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there's a clue......it's has run a big end.
Look at the colour and thickness (or lack of) of the bearing on the left..
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JVLRacing
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 08:11 PM |
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Lack of lubrication?...Was there no strange noises from the dyno run?
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555bug
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| posted on May 15th, 2010 at 10:15 PM |
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I've done a big end before and you will be able to tell from the journal ans it will be out of round. My 2c is that you would have heard a big end
failure before it let go. I'm thinking further up the line, gudgeon pin or a lean out on a single cylinder?
Either way Reub, that blow. Lets start a collection to get this fixed?
Stephen
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mactaylor
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 06:34 AM |
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sorry to hear ruebs, i think you need a tall glass of whisky.
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71-BEETLE-SEDAN
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 09:01 AM |
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looks like the timiing was bit out cause there is marks from the valves on the piston head.
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Gracey
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 11:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71-BEETLE-SEDAN
looks like the timiing was bit out cause there is marks from the valves on the piston head.
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More likely valve float.
I'm with Craig after seeing those big end bearings (or lack thereof) it seems it started with the bigend.
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humpty
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 12:33 PM |
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Totally bummed out Reub.... Feel for you mate....
This is the fear we all have with a fresh performance engine.... It is a gamble.... You never know when something catastrophic will happen....
The heads and valve gear look salvageable, the bottom-end looks toast.... The crank and three of the rods might be ok... The rest of the gear is all
there.... Awesome work has been achieved.... Fit the 1776 of your mates, run the efi and cooling system as you have it, and get out on the road
asap...
Enjoy it....
The love will return, and you will do it again....
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2443TT
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 03:41 PM |
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Its always hard to look past the carnage to identify the cause of the problem. After seeing these new pics my thoughts are:
Seeing the camshaft was broken I'd be inclined to think the valve/piston interference happened after the engine let go. Also, the marks look fresh.
If they were old there would be traces of carbon hammered into the piston from the valves too. This isnt the case, so there was no issue with
interference before it went bang. It wont have been valve float with the valve train setup that the engine was running.
Chances are that the cam was broken by the rod when it parted company with the piston. Once that happened, it all went nasty from there.
The rod bearing isnt a good enough indicator to see if the engines oil pressure surged or not. Its been hammered to death after punching a hole
through the block, and after that al the white metal disappeared. Similarly other the rod bearing on number 2 cant be used as an indicator of oil
surge, because after the bang that journel will have lost oil pressure and you would expect depris and white metal damage to that bearing as a result.
The journels on the crank dont appear to be burnt enough either. Only the mains can tell that story properly, and even then there will be some
colateral damage.
Based on these new pics my best guess is a lean out either to incorrect mapping of the ecu, or fuel pressure issue. It appears to have happened on all
4 cylinders, so its not an injector issue (based on what has been shown).
Look at the colour of the spark plug electrodes from head 1+2. While the combustion chambers are all pretty sooty, the electrodes look bone white.
The blow up happened at full load/wide open throttle and it was shut down immediatly after that. Having a look at the plugs removed from the left
head will tell more of a story.
Chances are the lean out happend that quickly though, that the electrodes won't be melted, and only the colour can be used as a guide. Whats is
actually left of the plug from number 4 and if it got an oil bath will also be a factor.
Email me the ecu map Reub, or have a look at it yourself. Fuel values at 7500 rpm + max load should be close too what they are where the engine is
making peak torque at 5100 rpm, or perhaps a little less as some tuners tend try to keep the AFR's constant at the top of the rev range. I tend to
make it very rich 500 rpm from the rev limitor incase a gear is missed, and to keep temps down a bit.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 04:56 PM |
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maybe if the conrod was broken, but how does a complete conrod which is attached to the crank swing around and hit the cam.....it can't.
I think you will fine the cam snapped after a chunk of metal tried to go through the straight cuts.
My opinion of the sequence : seizure to the bearing, locks the conrod for a split second, conrod then try's to spin with the crank as its locked,
conrod then smashes piston as its next in line, barrel then goes as conrod hammers it......At 7000rpm this would happen very quickly and cause this
amount of damage easily.
This motor has forged pistons, and there is no melting of the head or plugs....this canage was not caused by a "split second lean out".
Whatever we agree or disagree on though, the fact remains that Reubs now has a $10,000 pile of scap metal, so what does he do now ?
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 07:04 PM |
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I think the spark plugs look fine. Certainly not lean enough to cause sudden failure. Running too lean will erode the electrode of the plugs, the
electrodes look fine in what pics we can see.
If the cam died first then there should be a very bent valve. Part of the oil ring is up the intake port indicating the motor had turned a number of
times after eating the piston before the cam broke.
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 matberry
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 09:13 PM |
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My vote primary cause of mechanical failure; big end. Cause of big end failure???
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johny rotten
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:05 PM |
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yep burnt rod/ big end has picked up for sure
was that dodgy oil pump cover used ?
if so thats your answer
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johny rotten
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:07 PM |
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mm I see only 1 port is used
thats OK
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JVLRacing
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:08 PM |
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Does this not make people worry when engines gettin built to have them Engine dynoed?....
Wouldnt it be better for warranty value?
How many builders would garrantee there work?
I ask the question cause there is alot of money put into this motor...$$$$
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johny rotten
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:18 PM |
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the big end is burnt
This engine would have made some nasty noises long before the catastrophic failure
IMO it should have been shut down much earlier
It would have been an easy fix if it wasn't run to destruction
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matberry
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:24 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
It would have been an easy fix if it wasn't run to destruction
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Easy to say in hindsight.
What oil was in it??
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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JVLRacing
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
Lack of lubrication?...Was there no strange noises from the dyno run?
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 as above said
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:45 PM |
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Lack of lubrication would have locked the motor, via the main bearings I would have thought.
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johny rotten
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 10:58 PM |
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no
the big end is always the first to lock when lubrication oil surge happens
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matberry
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 11:05 PM |
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Yep, bigend fed from mains, so second down the line, and first to feel effects of oil pressure/volume loss.
#4 too, which is supplied by center main, which has to feed #4 and #1 bigends, where both #3 and #2 have feed from their own mains.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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johny rotten
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 11:11 PM |
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is it possible that crank flex at high rpm could cause low oil pressure or volume at that centre main ?
Then in turn Big end failure ?
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matberry
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| posted on May 16th, 2010 at 11:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
is it possible that crank flex at high rpm could cause low oil pressure or volume at that centre main ?
Then in turn Big end failure ?
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I hope not
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Mick058
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| posted on May 17th, 2010 at 07:11 AM |
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Thats crap mate - stick it on the shelf and take your time, or you'll just get frustrated and sell it all!
All the best Reub. Talk soon
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gaz58t2
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| posted on May 17th, 2010 at 07:06 PM |
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Well put Rueb
Engine is ready for pick up when you got a miniute
Gaz
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vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
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| posted on May 17th, 2010 at 07:25 PM |
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Good attitude and approach Reub.
Keep the volksy dream alive 
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humpty
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| posted on May 17th, 2010 at 09:25 PM |
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Here, here Reub.....
And have a nice time in Caribbean Gaz!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 13th, 2010 at 08:55 PM |
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whats the autopsy on the motor?
Any update on future plans ?
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