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 pfillery
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| posted on May 7th, 2013 at 05:20 PM |
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Seatbelts in beetles - what year was the first?
Can someone tell me definitively what year Australian sold or produced bugs started coming out with seat belts? The official rule in Qld says 1969
however the inspector also told me that some cars were brought out with them sooner and if that is the case, they need to have them by law. The
earlier cars seem to have fitting points but what was the actual year they started factory fitting them to all vehicles? Not as an optional accessory.
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 helbus
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| posted on May 7th, 2013 at 09:15 PM |
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1/1/69 all front seats must have belts
1/1/71 all rear seats must have seatbelts
If the fitting points are there, which most manufacturers had from early 60's, then just put them in
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ragged
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| posted on May 7th, 2013 at 09:46 PM |
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1962 was when the mounts were installed in the factory for sash seat belts.
These are the current regulations in South Australia which I am pretty sure is now a nationalised system.
Under the Road Traffic Act and Regulations seat belts are required in the driver's and front outboard seating positions from 1 July 1967.
Seat belts for all front seating positions became mandatory from the 1 January 1969 and for all seating positions from 1 January 1971.
Cheers Dave
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pfillery
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| posted on May 8th, 2013 at 07:07 AM |
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My quibble is that there appear to be the upper mounts in the front, just above the front seat backrest height, however on the floor they appear to
have been mounted through holes. Quite safe if done right but as it is not "factory" would need to be mod plated and in the case of seatbelts,
engineered as well in Qld, particularly where they were not previously fitted from new. Where should the lower mounting point be for front belts?
It's a resto project but I may decide to keep it, obviously if it is being done up to sell on, the extra expense of buying and fitting and
engineering seatbelts is one I can do without. If they never came out with them, at least you can sell the car without someone asking why it has none,
I've seen a lot of 60s bugs and busses which don't have them. I'm no fool though, if it is to be kept it will definitely have them.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on May 9th, 2013 at 08:05 PM |
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a general rule if the car was a Australia model and it didn't come with seat belts , you don't need them for rego.
If you wanted to put some seat belts in you would most likely need it done proper and approved
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AA003
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| posted on May 10th, 2013 at 06:56 AM |
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If the car is modified it must have seatbelts for all seats. It's on the RTA website.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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pfillery
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| posted on May 10th, 2013 at 10:59 AM |
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From what they told me (this is Qld of course) if it didn't come out with them, you can leave them out, you can fit them if the points are there
without any mod plate or engineering because the points are already approved and there is no requirement for an inspection. If it originally came out
without belts, and someone has installed them and registered it, you can also remove the belts to return it to it's correct state of having no belts.
If you want to change the number ie from 4 to 5 then that requires a mod plate.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
a general rule if the car was a Australia model and it didn't come with seat belts , you don't need them for rego.
If you wanted to put some seat belts in you would most likely need it done proper and approved
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pfillery
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| posted on May 13th, 2013 at 12:48 PM |
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So there are no bottom mounts for seatbelts anywhere on the body. Why would there be factory points on the tunnel for the stalks and above the
shoulder on both sides for the upper mounting, but nothing proper for the lower mount?
There is a hole through the pan in the right spot but that doesn't cut it as far as inspection standards go, just wondered why they would make
factory points in only half the required spots? Same in the back, there are mid points for the stalks and upper points but no lower points.
Any ideas?
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Joel
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| posted on May 13th, 2013 at 04:17 PM |
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That was because Sash belts were common in the 60s.
They didn't have the lap part, just a belt from the pillar down to the clip on the tunnel.
A mates original granny spec bug still had them, they felt like they would do nothing in an accident.
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helbus
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| posted on May 13th, 2013 at 07:36 PM |
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If you fit lap sash belts and use the factory mounting points, it will pass. The hole that you speak of in the floor would have had a seat belt nut
plate. When you buy new seat belts the nut plates come with them usually. The original nut plate often was like a big 50mm round washer, but they are
different now, being 75 x 50 mm instead of round. They must have no sharp edges or corners etc.
So buy the belts and nut plates and fit them is an easy way to do it.
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pfillery
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| posted on May 14th, 2013 at 07:50 AM |
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But my understanding of the modification rules is that if you use factory points, no mod plate or inspection is needed, if you intend to fit anywhere
else ie with a plate through the floorpan, you need it engineered in Qld. As there is no factory point down there for a lap sash it is either use no
seatbelts (suicide) or use sash only (almost as bad) or potentially spend a lot getting a plate which is probably 100 times safer than either of the
first options inspected and certified.
Or does that rule not apply if fitting to a car that was made before belts were mandatory?
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AA003
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| posted on May 14th, 2013 at 09:27 AM |
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If you used the sash points and a plate for the lap mounting, would anyone ever notice?
Of the thousands of 6V Beetles running around how many would have had their seat belt mountings checked by an engineer?
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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Joel
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| posted on May 14th, 2013 at 09:42 AM |
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Normally very rarely, but its the people that have just finished a restoration and the blueslip/RWC to get the bug reregistered is when they get
checked
Blueslips tend to be a lot more thorough than the average apprentice mechanic taking it around the block for a brake test and making sure the tyres
arent on the wear blocks for a pinkslip.
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zeppelin-vwwe
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| posted on May 14th, 2013 at 03:36 PM |
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January 1st 1965
I've got a '62 and taken them out. The mounting points were factory, but Australian imports didn't come with them
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AA003
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| posted on May 14th, 2013 at 04:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Normally very rarely, but its the people that have just finished a restoration and the blueslip/RWC to get the bug reregistered is when they get
checked
Blueslips tend to be a lot more thorough than the average apprentice mechanic taking it around the block for a brake test and making sure the tyres
arent on the wear blocks for a pinkslip.
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If you used the two original mounting points and just put an approved style of plate, do you think he would notice?
My 1990 Doka had a pre sale roadworthy inspection in Melbourne. Then a blue slip in Sydney for transfer of the registration to NSW. A few months later
I noticed that half of the centre front seat belt was missing.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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viiking
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| posted on May 23rd, 2013 at 08:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
1962 was when the mounts were installed in the factory for sash seat belts.
These are the current regulations in South Australia which I am pretty sure is now a nationalised system.
Under the Road Traffic Act and Regulations seat belts are required in the driver's and front outboard seating positions from 1 July 1967.
Seat belts for all front seating positions became mandatory from the 1 January 1969 and for all seating positions from 1 January 1971.
Cheers Dave
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Yes this is pretty right. My Dad's 68 beetle (which I am currently trying to restore) was bought 30th October 68. It came with sash only belts i.e.
there was NO lap part.
Some time soon after (which must have been around January 69), we were contacted by VW and advised that we had to change the front seat belts to
lap/sash. This was accomplished by installing a side by side buckle tongue connector over the tunnel. That is there was no individual stalk, but the
tongues of both new lap/sash belts clipped into the connector. It was always a laugh when you leant forward and thinking you have pressed the button
to unclip your belt only to find yourself stuck solid while the passenger became released.
The unit is still installed today. But I can't now remember if we had to pay for the belts or whether they came gratis from VW. I guess Dad paid as I
can't see any car companies giving away anything for nothing.
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