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 simohagz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 07:56 AM |
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Street engine selection
Gents,
Just about to kick off on a ground up restoration of a '68 and need some advice on street engine combos from those that have been through it.
My main requirements are:
- Reliability
- I want to maintain the heater boxes
- I dont want to have to standoff the decklid
- Good for driving street and occasional freeway
I was thinking of possibly 1916/2007/2110/2276...
Also, at what point does the stock trans become a no no?
Not concerned with exact buld at the minute, more just want to get a feel for what would actually suit my needs.
Cheers,
Simon
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sander288
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 09:30 AM |
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IMHO your better off with a 1600 with twin carbs and a real mild cam; this would be reliable and also provide good economy and performance, I
wouldn't stroke the engine simply because of the hassle and extra cost in sourcing a quality crank
The stock trans becomes a pain when going over 100hp and heaps more torque (IMO) but with most things it depends on how you want to drive it and what
condition the stock one is in....
Hope this helps a little
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Allbones
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 10:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by simohagz
Gents,
Just about to kick off on a ground up restoration of a '68 and need some advice on street engine combos from those that have been through it.
My main requirements are:
- Reliability
- I want to maintain the heater boxes
- I dont want to have to standoff the decklid
- Good for driving street and occasional freeway
I was thinking of possibly 1916/2007/2110/2276...
Also, at what point does the stock trans become a no no?
Not concerned with exact buld at the minute, more just want to get a feel for what would actually suit my needs.
Cheers,
Simon
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If the heater boxes need to be retained dont bother with anything bigger than a 1600, the heat (especially when at sustained high revs like on the
highway) will crack the heads I believe.
Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I have heard this from a few different sources, one of which being an article from Mark Herbert.
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hellbugged
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 10:29 AM |
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Big bore heater boxes are available
There are a few ways to get extra air in the engine bay without popping the lid
You can make any size street friendly
Stock box will handle a fair dose of power with some sensible treatment, however it needs to be in good working order to begin with
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simohagz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 11:22 AM |
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Thanks for the replys so far guys.
My current engine is a 1600TP so really just looking for something with a bit more get up, without causing a bunch of technical issues with
trans/heat/cooling etc.
I was thinking a 1916 would suit as fairly mild increase with nice thick walls and should provide a bit more torque..?
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simohagz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 11:36 AM |
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Does anyone have any experience with CBBVW in Sydney.
Looking at their longblock prices and they seem quite competitive.
Also appear to warranty their work which is always nice...
Other option is a Rod Penrose engine.. thoughts?
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 01:39 PM |
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call Vintage vw sydney 
.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 03:57 PM |
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or you could buy the motor and adaptor ecm etc out of this bug for about $2490.00
.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=102786
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 Bizarre
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 04:12 PM |
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Simon
I run a 1916 with dual Dellorto and heater boxes.
I don't prop the engine lid but my lid is a 4 slot.
My engine puts out 70 HP at the wheels.
My car is daily driven and lives outside 24-7
I have heard good things about both the suppliers you have mentioned.
Bang for buck it is hard to go past Rod.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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simohagz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 04:26 PM |
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Thanks Bizarre.
Good to hear that a 1916 can be done with pretty much an otherwise stock setup.
Are you running a stock transmission?
At this stage leaning toward Rod as he seems to have a more significant following of users who can attest to the reliability of his engines.
Havent found anybody yet with a CBB engine..though they are significantly cheaper than Rods longblock...
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Joel
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 06:10 PM |
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THere's no text book answer on the gearbox, it depends on the driver more than the engine.
You can break a gearbox with a stock 1600 or like many of us run big HP through them for years with no problems.
My stock gearbox has survived for 13 years and over 100K now with modded engines right up to the 180HP subi in it now and I know of others with more
than that without breaking stock gearboxes.
I won't say I go easy on mine but I do drive with *some* mechanical sympathy.
I know I could break it without too much effort.
But on the other hand if you have the chance to get a stronger one built do it.
prevention is better than cure as they say
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gordysbeetle
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 07:38 PM |
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I went for a Rod Penrose 2276 with a rebuilt gearbox. Best value for money I could find. Also the cheapest bolt on bits around.
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 vw54
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 07:47 PM |
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I run a 1916 fuel injected wit ha C65 cam plenty of grunt when you want nice to cruise and have some fun on the track / drags as well
The injection helps smooth things out as well
running Vintage speed exhaust with big J pipes and heater boxes nice in Sydney on way to work each morning
this question you will get dozens of different answers as well
Where are you located ???
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Bizarre
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 08:03 PM |
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If you are getting heater boxes make sure you get the joints flanged
Soooooo....much nicer
The differences in prices would be for a reason.
Rod is pretty competitive with pricing and Mike builds great stuff.
It will be new Vs old case or heads or crank or something not included
and yes - my transmission is stock
Futue te ipsum!!!
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vw54
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 08:33 PM |
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yes flanged exhausts for sure
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on July 22nd, 2013 at 11:02 PM |
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1916 is nice - I have been running them for the last 390,000 km with very few problems.
The first problem I did have was cutting costs by using a used case, and the compression was a little high I think, because I couldn't stop it
pinging when it warmed up. The case cracked after 30,000 km.
The next 2 engines got 120,000 km & 135,000 km respectively, and both times it was the 040 heads that went, but I had a new engine (mainly case
etc.) built each time.
My current engine has an aluminium case & 044 heads and is running fine at the moment with over 105,000 km on it.
I am a builder and tow a trailer full of tools (and often building materials as well), and drive it fairly hard. It runs twin Kadrons and has an
external oil cooler (as well as the stock one) - mainly for when towing the trailer on the highway in summer. I also run stock heater boxes (love them
in winter) and Thunderbird (I think) extractors.
I have mainly run a standard transaxle, often 2nd hand, and after doing a diff when trying to tow a bogged truck load of scaffold, I have been running
a super diff. Except for losing 2nd gear early on (I think it may have been with my 1600), my main transaxle failures have been reverse, from backing
heavy trailers around building sites. :-) I have since had Dangerous build me a transaxle with an early Kombi reverse in it - he reckoned it was the
strongest he could do.
For a few years recently I was working away, at one stage in Parkes, and driving home (to Port Macquarie) and back each weekend was about 1,400 km -
didn't have a problem - even at times when I brought my tool box trailer home.
I think as long as you choose good quality parts, keep it a little conservative and not overstressed, don't treat it too harshly (I know - I should
talk. lol), and most importantly, get it build by a good engine builder who really knows how to make them live, most combinations could do something
along the lines of what you want.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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Paulc1964au
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| posted on July 23rd, 2013 at 07:48 AM |
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I am happy with the 1776 I am having built hopefully installed in the next few weeks. I chose this size as a nice street engine that is reliable and
hopefully a little torque
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1916baja
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| posted on July 23rd, 2013 at 06:52 PM |
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Just call rod and be done with it, you can't beat him for the money.... Best value in Australia.
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simohagz
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| posted on July 23rd, 2013 at 08:32 PM |
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It seems the difference in Rods to CBBs prices are down to the:
- New case vs used
- ported heads vs standard
- CBB do it on an exchange basis
Only thing is that CBB offer a 12 month 20k warranty on the engine whereas not sure if Rod does similar?
I have spoken with both guys and both were extremely helpful, recommending the 1916 and keep the stock trans.
Will be heading down to the gong to check out Rods builds for sure!
Have to discuss with my old man (build partner) and decide which way to go!
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Allbones
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 09:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by simohagz
It seems the difference in Rods to CBBs prices are down to the:
- New case vs used
- ported heads vs standard
- CBB do it on an exchange basis
Only thing is that CBB offer a 12 month 20k warranty on the engine whereas not sure if Rod does similar?
I have spoken with both guys and both were extremely helpful, recommending the 1916 and keep the stock trans.
Will be heading down to the gong to check out Rods builds for sure!
Have to discuss with my old man (build partner) and decide which way to go!
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If Warrenty is an issue buy Australian. The hassel involved with sending something back to the states for warrenty would be astronimical.
If you require that peace of mind, go with Rod, I would assume that he would offer some sort of warrenty or the like with his engines. He doesnt seem
like the sort of bloke who wouldnt stand by his builds.
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Gracey
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 01:35 PM |
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Stan Pobjoy: http://www.stanpobjoy.com.au/#!
Stan gives warrenty on his street engines. I've used Pobjoy engines for years and have no problem recommending his engines.
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simohagz
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 04:57 PM |
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VW54 - located on Northern Beaches Sydney.
Bit confused on exhaust options, wanting to run a stock looking twin peashooter type exhaust on the 1916 with the heat boxes...
Not exactly sure what parts I should be looking at?
Where abouts in Sydney are you?
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Bizarre
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 06:26 PM |
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having had a custom made exhaust and all the effort there is only one answer, especially if you want a stock looking one.
Vintage Speed
http://www.vintagespeed.com.tw/Exhaustsystem/Exhaustsystem-main.html
VVDS, Classic Vee Dub and other places sell them
Futue te ipsum!!!
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matberry
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 07:31 PM |
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As said above, for original cutouts to be used, the exhaust has to be a Vintage Speed
As a VW engine builder I have to say, remember there is always some truth to the comment 'you get what you pay for'. I'm not denying that both Rod
and Mike offer a very affordable and value for money package, but there are a few engine builders in Oz that go the extra mile. Some of us put a lot
of extra time into our builds including many hours massaging and modifying the new and/or old components to get them to a point where we are happy to
assemble them to then sell them to our customers. Out of the box components will work, but engines with tighter decks, set up compression ratios,
blue-printed bottom ends, balanced rotating assemblies and improved cooling systems will last longer, also details like extra machining work to
improve the off-the-shelf parts like cases, heads and valve train all add to the longevety of the product. How many suppliers measure the life of
their engines in 100's of thousands of kilometers, and of the recomendations above, how many actually use their engines daily intheir own vehicles
There are also some parts that are superior to others so not all direct price comparisons are created equal, I know I even go to the extra effort of
initial start-up using a pressurised oiling system, breaking in the cam and tuning the engine prior to delivery.
my 2c
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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sander288
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 07:37 PM |
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^^^ true words, a good engine is more than the sum of it's parts for sure!
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DakDak67
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 07:38 PM |
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You can rebuild my 2276 then Matt 
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vassy66T1
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 07:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
As said above, for original cutouts to be used, the exhaust has to be a Vintage Speed
As a VW engine builder I have to say, remember there is always some truth to the comment 'you get what you pay for'. I'm not denying that both Rod
and Mike offer a very affordable and value for money package, but there are a few engine builders in Oz that go the extra mile. Some of us put a lot
of extra time into our builds including many hours massaging and modifying the new and/or old components to get them to a point where we are happy to
assemble them to then sell them to our customers. Out of the box components will work, but engines with tighter decks, set up compression ratios,
blue-printed bottom ends, balanced rotating assemblies and improved cooling systems will last longer, also details like extra machining work to
improve the off-the-shelf parts like cases, heads and valve train all add to the longevety of the product. How many suppliers measure the life of
their engines in 100's of thousands of kilometers, and of the recomendations above, how many actually use their engines daily intheir own vehicles
There are also some parts that are superior to others so not all direct price comparisons are created equal, I know I even go to the extra effort of
initial start-up using a pressurised oiling system, breaking in the cam and tuning the engine prior to delivery.
my 2c
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The little stroker in my Single Cab is now heading towards 80,000kms and is sweet as a nut. Matt built it for me and went the extra mile (and the
extra $) to make it right.
Matt's engines last in the real world.
My real experience. 
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simohagz
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 08:32 PM |
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I really appreciate everyone's opinions.
Realistically I am limited by budget, and even stretching from an imported turnkey to an Aussie built engine means something else on the build has to
suffer unfortunately.
It would appear there are dozens of people getting around with Rods engines and have run them for many years, and from what I hear he runs his own
builds in his cars?
Again, I'm only a new dubber so all the advice is great!
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1916baja
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| posted on July 24th, 2013 at 09:25 PM |
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Yes the imported turn key engines are cheap, but in the long run, by the time you factor in shipping and import duties it would probably cost less to
get one of rods motors. Plus he's in Australia for warranty purposes. From what Ive heard you need to be careful what you buy from the states...
There has been some disastrous engines come from there.
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benny_acko
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| posted on July 25th, 2013 at 10:38 AM |
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Simohagz - I too am on the Beaches and in a similar boat as I explore my options and research as a relatively new owner of my first bug. This thread
is a great source of opinions and info so thanks to all.
As for a stock looking exhaust the Vintagespeed looks amazing and sounds great. matberry has one on his Bluey - I saw and heard it at the VW Nationals
and it sounds awesome! There are some videos on youtube of VWs with these exhausts fitted...
1967 VW Beetle Deluxe
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