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posted on June 23rd, 2015 at 02:23 PM
Where do I start
After emptying my wallet on a few items and waiting and complaining about the time it took to get therm , (completely other story which compounds
things worse) started assembling the said parts and have run into no end of problems
Exhaust flanges aren't square on new muffler , blows out gasket in under 100km
Adjustable struts don't fit unless you grind a clearance angle at lower bolt hole area
1.25 :1 rockers don't fit unless you space them up 2mm - so now do I loose lift over duration?
Tail lights have issues original guard holes
Dual carbs , wrong kit supplied had to modify linkages to work under alternator
Jetting so far out it , it's fuelling a v8
Other rubber parts too long or shaped wrong
Cosmetic parts already starting to rust ( vehicle undercover , no where near ocean ,hasn't moved since starting to reassemble with above said
parts)
Other parts I bought such as a shifter and rims from another supplier can't be happier with .
It's a silly question as I think I know the answer about a certain brands quality vs others but seriously any info would be appreciated on other
peoples fixes for the above cause I'm ready to swap the lot for Jap car !!
psimitar
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posted on June 23rd, 2015 at 07:11 PM
Hmm, EMPI gear by any chance?
Exhaust flanges do have a habit of pulling into the centre from heat of welding so need to be filed flat before fitting. Hopefully no more than 0.5mm
needs filing or they'll bend again cos loss of strength.
Presume you have 2 bolt style struts on a 1303? So the mounting bracket of the strut fouls the hub knuckle?
1.25 rockers shouldn't need spacing but 1.4s can. Make sure they aren't 1.4s. You won't loose any lift so long as adjuster have enough thread to
set clearance properly but this will give pretty wonky valve geometry which could wear things out or worse fairly pronto.
What style tail lights? Ovals, tombstone or elephant foot? Is it the metal housing or lense that's the issue?
Wrong linkage kits just shows supplier either madea mistake or could give a toss.
Jetting is rarely right out of the box no matter what. What carbs ya got? Can help with single barrel but not dual barrel like IDF, IDA etc.
Rubber parts, well either the german quality stuff from Europe or Wolfsburg West gear. Brazilian stuff is shite as well as Chinese stuff.
madness is in the eye of the beholder
fish26
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posted on June 23rd, 2015 at 09:38 PM
Nothing aftermarket on vw is a straight bolt on, they even did oddball things from the factory.
It's almost expected you will need to modify most items to fit correctly and please don't get me started on rockers, geometry, pushrod length etc.
People think they can just bolt stuff on and Bob's your uncle, sooooo far from reality and the proper way to set things up.
It's a blessing and a curse as the beetle stigma allows us to tinker, upgrade, restore, bastardise, destroy......the perfect scenario for
manufacturers of aftermarket parts that rely on our gullibility and "i can do it myself, its only a beetle" mentality.
Empi ICT? Junk
Empi chrome? Junk
If you want quality you need to pay for it, both parts and labour
Not to discourage you from going Japanese, I did a Stage 2/3 upgrade on a mates MY12 Subaru WRX with all parts supplied by Hi-End aftermarket
manufacturers, every single part needed modification to fit correctly and to my liking, I'm a fussy fu#&er and just to give you an idea I spent
4hrs modifying the divorced bell mouth down pipe......
bitten by the bug..........several times
psimitar
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posted on June 23rd, 2015 at 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by fish26
Nothing aftermarket on vw is a straight bolt on, they even did oddball things from the factory.
It's almost expected you will need to modify most items to fit correctly and please don't get me started on rockers, geometry, pushrod length etc.
People think they can just bolt stuff on and Bob's your uncle, sooooo far from reality and the proper way to set things up.
It's a blessing and a curse as the beetle stigma allows us to tinker, upgrade, restore, bastardise, destroy......the perfect scenario for
manufacturers of aftermarket parts that rely on our gullibility and "i can do it myself, its only a beetle" mentality.
Empi ICT? Junk
Empi chrome? Junk
If you want quality you need to pay for it, both parts and labour
Not to discourage you from going Japanese, I did a Stage 2/3 upgrade on a mates MY12 Subaru WRX with all parts supplied by Hi-End aftermarket
manufacturers, every single part needed modification to fit correctly and to my liking, I'm a fussy fu#&er and just to give you an idea I spent
4hrs modifying the divorced bell mouth down pipe......
Oh I dunno, if you've got some technical aptitude you'd be surprised what you can achieve with good results
madness is in the eye of the beholder
fish26
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posted on June 23rd, 2015 at 10:59 PM
Correct, i have some technical aptitude but i'm not surprised what I can achieve with excellent results....
bitten by the bug..........several times
BoogieRider
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posted on June 24th, 2015 at 04:37 PM
Thanks guys , I'm under the impression it's all empi (white box syndrome) being a master tech for Audi I'm actually embarrassed after 30 years plus
in the game , parts have got worse , supplier doesnt give a rats arse , worst dealing I've had in 35 years in the trade,I can repair and recalibrate
just about anything , and don't mind tinkering here and there , but this is ridiculous , parts are just not really up to scratch , the worst part was
when buying I was assured straight bolt on , a couple of adjustments , and everything is hunky dory , by more than 1 person , preferring to do my
research without the internet with people who have used these products , when you spend over 2 k with a supplier that you assures you everything is
good to go and it turns out to be no more than 50 bucks of scrap metal and child labour ??, a weekend of work has turned to 4 and it's not right , I
just need solutions or solutions to case scenarios , 34 Ict carbs , that are balanced but have a over rich progression ,exhaust flanges that blow out
extractor gaskets that are 2mm thick , rockers that are supposed to be 1.25 but need heaving spacing and machining of adjusting screw pedestal etc
Wondering how much more I need to spend to get this bug out of my driveway ,
vlad01
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posted on June 24th, 2015 at 08:47 PM
whats new? this is VWs today. only going to get worse lol.
yeah I know the frustration very well.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
modnrod
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posted on June 25th, 2015 at 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by BoogieRider......... being a master tech for Audi I'm actually embarrassed after 30 years plus in the game , parts have got worse ,
supplier doesnt give a rats arse , worst dealing I've had in 35 years in the trade,
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. A bloke who cares about his stuff shaking his head in frustration.
You can console yourself in the knowledge that you have the skills and experience to pick this shit up and see it for what it is, most guys just put
it together and never wonder why they only do 40K then they're cactus.
I'm currently assembling an engine with genuine OEM parts from Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Ford and of course VW, to make something that is at least original
quality throughout. It's sorta fun, and it's become a bit of a game to match it all up perfectly as a whole, but just being able to rely on ANY
aftermarket manufacturer (even the 30 yr old famous ones.........) for ANY quality parts is no longer viable.
BoogieRider
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posted on June 25th, 2015 at 07:29 AM
Modnrod I totally agree it's coming down to looking at other manufacturer parts and modifying them , I have access to some high quality parts , that
obviously require mods to work , however the project was thought out to keep it period and to teach my son skills , but when parts just don't work or
suppliers don't answer calls (I swear to god my number is blocked ) ,its frustrating to say the least so getting back to original rant
File flat exhaust flanges
Source German only parts
Add a hotter coil,and advance timing from 7 degrees to combat progression between idle and main circuit in carbs
Machine rockers add shims or cut down pushrods
Machine / grind lower legs of struts
Any tricks I've missed will be appreciated , every thing turned up in white boxes that were unlabelled so it's hard to tell if I got the right parts
cheers Lee
Ps - will post up a few pics in members rides later in the week
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posted on June 25th, 2015 at 07:36 AM
Parts are the least of the problem,they can be made to fit correctly, it's the poor service from some (not all) Australian suppliers that's the most
frustrating.
Mosy my early career was spent working on high performance vehicles and modifying them for rallying and racing, so making things fit and thinking
outside the square is normal.
I'm lucky in that my small workshop is well equipped with lathe and milling machine, welders, etc. So even the odd EMPI part poses little problems.
It's the suppliers attitudes that gets me.
Poor service at the highest possible price. The other day I needed a cam plug $3, was told by supplier that it would cost $22 freight. Would only
put it into a courier bag. When suggested he go to the post office and put it into an envelope, I was met with total disbelief. Far too much trouble.
Probably cost him Thousands of dollars in future orders.
Part of the fun in this hobby is making those parts fit and at least you can still get most parts here or from overseas.
Try buying parts for a lot of other makes of classic cars? I know because I am often asked to make the parts for them.
modnrod
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posted on June 25th, 2015 at 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by BoogieRider
Any tricks I've missed will be appreciated , every thing turned up in white boxes that were unlabelled so it's hard to tell if I got the right parts
cheers Lee
The heads and compooooonents are the worst I've found.
Check all of these before assembly, just to see if they fit at all.........
Collets touching around the valve stem.
Collet "ledges" bigger than valve stem grooves.
Hardened rocker post studs that aren't (some of them even have sharp edges from cutting the threads sticking out through the "black paint"
hardening process).
Valves that aren't straight, I've seen runout of damn near a whole millimeter on the head.
In one set of single HD valve springs, I measured from 101lbs up to 123lbs at 1.55" installed height. AFTER I shimmed them to be equal, I then
measured as much as 40lbs difference over the nose at .429" at the stem.
Heavy duty retainers that are heavy duty because they weigh in at nearly 30g each!?!?!?!? WTF!?!?!?!
Fuck me I think I need a Valium..........
PS: I'm better now, thanks.
PPS: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I'm not a mechanic, I'm an electronics tech, currently working in the satellite industry because electronics is a
dead trade. I can ASSEMBLE engines, and test them, yes, I've done dozens, but if I can see this shit and easily measure it then it must be pretty
awful generally I think.
psimitar
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posted on June 25th, 2015 at 08:38 PM
I've struggled finding reasonably priced, good quality suppliers over here, not that I'm saying there aren't, compared to the ease I had in the UK
to the point I still prefer using my old UK suppliers as I know what I'll get is good. That, plus I've been doing it long enough to know what is
going to be a quality brand and what isn't.
For the ICT's the main thing is finding the right emulsion tube. Now it's been a while so I may have the codes the wrong way round but they normally
come supplied with an F6 but a better fuel profile is achieved with an F9 tube. If you have an AFR meter in the exhaust then this will greatly help in
fine tuning the emulsion tube even more. Basically the tube is an upside down rev range of the engine so just off idle is at the top and high revs are
at the bottom. If an area of the rev range needs leaning out then you need a tube without a hole approximatng the area of rev range. Need more fuel
then you need to add a hole.
I tuned my old 1641 with 009 this way, and along with changing springs in the dizzy, removed the 009 flatspot and had a nice peppy engine that could
do nearly 40MPG on long runs and mid to low 30's for town. Was pretty happy with that
madness is in the eye of the beholder
BoogieRider
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posted on June 26th, 2015 at 10:17 AM
Psimitar your right with the tubes f7-9 can pretty much run most motors crammed or stock but without looking I would bet the way it feels is like f2
very heavy on progression , I've contemplated going to single 40 idf ( as that was originally ordered and after 4 months still could not supply) as
even the linkage kit on the ict start to heavily flex ,which is only going to lead to premature carb wear, another 1000 dollars ?? As it stands you
can't change front plugs with carbs in situ , the non vacuum advance distributor I have looks to be an original 009 with no shaft play and
electronic conversion if I had the DP manifold elbows I think the 40 would be a better option as it is easier to work on and allows simple servicing
modnrod
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posted on June 26th, 2015 at 06:02 PM
Maybe I'm lucky having small hands cos I could drop me long extension down the back of the carbs and use me ickle hands to pop the socket over the
plug
madness is in the eye of the beholder
BoogieRider
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posted on June 26th, 2015 at 06:48 PM
Umm my bad not ICT , they are EPC will get stuck into it this
weekend and see what happens
psimitar
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posted on June 27th, 2015 at 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by BoogieRider
Umm my bad not ICT , they are EPC will get stuck into it this
weekend and see what happens
Well EMPI weren't allowed to use ICT due to copyright/trademark thingy. I wonder what EPC stands for? Extra Poop Carburettor?
madness is in the eye of the beholder
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posted on June 28th, 2015 at 11:30 AM
Extremely pathetic craperators?
"Exempt" from "patents" in "China"?
Exceptionally Poor Copy?
Eccentric Petrol Canisters?
Epically Prone Catastrophe?
Exaggerated Piece'O Crap?
hmmm has to be one of those or all the above?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
bajachris88
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posted on June 28th, 2015 at 02:30 PM
haha,
nothing is 'ready to go - straight out of the box'. You got to have a sense of humour about it, otherwise the other option aside from laughing is
crying. (awaiting 'h' and his rainy face reminiscing )
I spent probably close to a grand having alledgedly balanced and high quality parts being rebalanced and machined to correct geometries at the machine
shop. The main seal crank runout was crazy, flywheel had to be machined for end float, all conrod big end journals had to be remachined for correct
and consistent bearing crush.
And it doesn't stop with EMPI. I have had vw OEM main bearings with inconsistent sizes, to the point i had to get the crank main bearing surfaces
grinded to suit the various bearing tolerances for a consistent oil gap.
Working with rockers now (grind grind...). Out of the packet, required 3 shims to wind the adjusters out enough, cut the custom pushrods for the
appropriate geometry on the lathe, have had to grind the rockers, file em flat (for clearance to adjust em out), will need to regrind the oil holes
for alignment on the lifter feet, and then buy more end play shims to reshim the excess play. Maybe after all taht is done... they 'might' be ready
to go.
Character building... but at least you can be confident after all the work/checking/rectification that it will be suitable.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
psimitar
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posted on July 1st, 2015 at 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by bajachris88
haha,
nothing is 'ready to go - straight out of the box'. You got to have a sense of humour about it, otherwise the other option aside from laughing is
crying. (awaiting 'h' and his rainy face reminiscing )
I spent probably close to a grand having alledgedly balanced and high quality parts being rebalanced and machined to correct geometries at the machine
shop. The main seal crank runout was crazy, flywheel had to be machined for end float, all conrod big end journals had to be remachined for correct
and consistent bearing crush.
And it doesn't stop with EMPI. I have had vw OEM main bearings with inconsistent sizes, to the point i had to get the crank main bearing surfaces
grinded to suit the various bearing tolerances for a consistent oil gap.
Working with rockers now (grind grind...). Out of the packet, required 3 shims to wind the adjusters out enough, cut the custom pushrods for the
appropriate geometry on the lathe, have had to grind the rockers, file em flat (for clearance to adjust em out), will need to regrind the oil holes
for alignment on the lifter feet, and then buy more end play shims to reshim the excess play. Maybe after all taht is done... they 'might' be ready
to go.
Character building... but at least you can be confident after all the work/checking/rectification that it will be suitable.
Yea, trying to find 'quality' these days is hard. Brand new Wolfsburg West 36HP bearings have more clearance than the original worn ones so having
to pay to have everything 'professionally' measured to either get better tolerance or a refund. It's sickening.
madness is in the eye of the beholder
BoogieRider
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posted on July 4th, 2015 at 06:59 PM
Ok update , machine rockers ,then adjust clearances , rocker covers leak due to rockers hitting covers , surely these cant be 1.25 to 1 rockers ??
AAAARRRGGGHH !!!
psimitar
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posted on July 4th, 2015 at 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by BoogieRider
Ok update , machine rockers ,then adjust clearances , rocker covers leak due to rockers hitting covers , surely these cant be 1.25 to 1 rockers ??
AAAARRRGGGHH !!!
Yea, from your orig description they sounds more like 1.4 than 1.25 Easy way to check is place rocker shaft on upright on a bit of card so you can
mark how much the vallve tip moves compared to the pushrod end. Do a few different angles of movement to double check calculations.
madness is in the eye of the beholder
BoogieRider
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posted on July 5th, 2015 at 09:06 AM
Yes it's time for a cuppa , read the paper, walk the dog , say hello to the neighbours ,rake up leaves ,even go with the better half op shopping ,
anything but that damn green dub, lol
