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 Jenny
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| posted on November 25th, 2004 at 12:41 PM |
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Vehicle Speed Sensors
I know this topic has been discussed a few times before,
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18813
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=20690
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24025
but I just saw your post Brad where you said you are using a VDO sender, Part No 412.009 to derive the VSS signal from the stock VW mechanical cable.
I had a look at the data sheet for the sender and VDO says it produces 8 pulses per revolution. The Subaru manual says their sensor produces 4 pulses
per revolution. So does the VW cable only turn once every two wheel revolutions (to produce 4 pulses from the VDO sender), or are you using a
frequency divider to reduce the 8 pulses down to 4 or are you just supplying the Subaru ECU twice the number of pulses per rev (eg. 8 instead of 4)?
Will this sender still work for speed limit version Subarus or will it bring the limiting function in at half the speed?
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Brad
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| posted on November 25th, 2004 at 04:53 PM |
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Hi,
VDO 412.009 is 6 pulses. I know what it says but I have pulled it apart and measured it severl times and it is only 6.
The VSS on the EJ series engines doesn't care about the difference in rotation. The VSS is only to sense the speed change and not the speed. At least
this is the case on the EJ 22. I am aware there is speed limiting on some Subaru engines but from what I can find out this is not an issue with the 6
pulse VSS as the limiting is part of the dash cluster.
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Jenny
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| posted on November 26th, 2004 at 06:26 AM |
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Thanks for that Brad.
Is the VDO sensor a feed through type so you can connect your VW cable in one end and the other end to your VW speedo?
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Brad
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| posted on November 28th, 2004 at 08:42 PM |
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yep the VDO sensor screws into your speedo an then your cable screws into the sensor.
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seagull
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| posted on November 30th, 2004 at 01:57 AM |
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I have a problem ( I think ) on the left is a motor bike speedo on the right is the only thing that I can see in my subaru front cut that is the VSS ,
this was removed from the auto gear box ( diff ) .
So what do I do from here :cry
seagull
[Edited on 29-11-2004 by seagull]
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bigbaja
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| posted on November 30th, 2004 at 08:00 AM |
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not much from what I can find out. I know we used the Mazda pickup when we did Wes's but he also used the Mazda dash so didn't need his cable going
through. Can u pull the subaru sensor apart ?
[size=4] Terry - Custom Off RoadComponents[/size]
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 30th, 2004 at 12:48 PM |
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My speed sensor is connected directly to my speedo cable. I was lucky, the Mazda was 4WS so had 2 VSS's. The second one piggy-backed onto the first
one with a VW speedo cable sized fitting. Maybe madza speed sensors would be a good solution?
The mazda speed sensor was driven through the gearbox at a ratio of 21/25. Then the Baja front tyre was different OD to the mazda tyre. When I
combined those two ratio's I found the total ratio to be 1.44:1.
So my speedo was out by that ratio, I fixed that by putting a recalibrated sticker on the speedo face. The advantage was that the factory 180kph
limiter moved by 1.44x to 260kph.
My next plan is to by a digital signal multiplier from Jaycar (about $44). This will allow me to correct the ratio, remove the sticker from the speedo
face (so the backlighting and odometer will work too).
[Edited on 30-11-2004 by Baja Wes]
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ratbug
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| posted on November 30th, 2004 at 04:31 PM |
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| Quote: |
My next plan is to by a digital signal multiplier from Jaycar (about $44). This will allow me to correct the ratio, remove the sticker from the speedo
face (so the backlighting and odometer will work too).
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I've been after one of these kits since JUNE when they first advertised them.. they keep saying the release has been pushed back due to legal
issues.. They were readvertised last month so i went in again, and they said they might not get them until next year. I just bought a similar device
off ebay called the SpeedoHealer. Cost twice as much, but it comes prebuilt in a small box, the jaycar pcb looks fairly chunky.. Should receive it
this week hopefully.
With the sensor issue, my post in one of the above threads explained how i made my own sensor.. It was lef tin the open and ended up eventually having
some reliability issue. I got an XF falcon sensor for next to nothing, however accoridng to the manual it gies 16pulses/rev.. i need about 5pulses/rev
and then finetune with the speedohealer.. I might upgrade the sensor to an optical like i did originally but house it in the XF falcon sensor so its
more protected.. The other thing good about the XF sensor is the gear comes off easly, leaving a sline matching that of the vw cable.
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seagull
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| posted on November 30th, 2004 at 10:09 PM |
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Thank you Wes
how lucky can you be with your set up
I have found a off the shelf unit that has many adapters to fit cables and I post some photos on the 31 .
I am following this up now .
One question that bugs me : if the motor can run on one spot , and you can rev it up say max rpm , why is it that when you drive the thing down the
road the motor cuts out ( fuel ) ?
my vss unit was in the gear box , not moving ( car in park ) motor ran fine
Wes ideas mate :beer
cheers seagull
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seagull
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| posted on December 2nd, 2004 at 12:04 AM |
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these are some of the aftermarket units I found to day
the cost is around $70.00 >$80.00
This unit has 8 pulses
[Edited on 1-12-2004 by seagull]
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seagull
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| posted on December 2nd, 2004 at 12:08 AM |
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this one is made for a speedo cable cut and place it inline , it comes with many different adapters to suit cables , the only problem is the number of
pulses this has two , and no adapter for the vw speedo male fitting .
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pete wood
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| posted on December 2nd, 2004 at 01:28 PM |
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I got one of those in my speedo cable
| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
these are some of the aftermarket units I found to day
the cost is around $70.00 >$80.00
This unit has 8 pulses
[Edited on 1-12-2004 by seagull]
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There's a guy local to me that installs them in cables, cost me about $120 from memory and it's all good. I just told him what motor it was and he
got the right one. 
The company is called M.I.S (mobile instrument services, but he's not mobile anymore) and he is in Marayong in Sydney's west. I am sure if you sent
him a new cable with the engine model and a cheque or whatever, He could install it and send it back.
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seagull
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| posted on July 26th, 2005 at 10:45 PM |
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Jenny , the top link . this would be the easy way for me to do the VSS
how many pulses for a ej20 non turbo guys ?????nn[ Edited on 26-7-2005 by seagull ]
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Jenny
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 08:38 AM |
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As far as I know the ECU pin gets connected to ground 4 times per wheel revolution.nn[ Edited on 26-7-2005 by Jenny ]
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pete wood
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 08:44 AM |
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I was told four as well, see my last post too, if you rang that dude he could tell you.
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ratbug
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 01:01 PM |
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4 sounds about right using stock subaru wheels, I have 6 pulses/rev on mine (which is spot on according to the subaru diagnostic machine, but have
bigger wheels, so need more pulses/rev to give the same speed.
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gull
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 02:04 PM |
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silly ? would the ecu fault light come on if the speed unit was disconected ? I dont have one to try this keep in mind .
how does the ecu pick up a signal if the car is parked , my motor is running odd revs up & down on the spot and fault 39 ?
seagull
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VWCOOL
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 05:58 PM |
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It won't go looking for VSS all the time; maybe - and I don't know for sure - until it's seen conditions of boost or WOT, or steady-state revs or
MAP at say 2000rpm. Yours hasn't done that yet as it hasn't been on-road. so I doubt its VSS related...
Mine ran up and down too... try holding throttle open at around 3000rpm for 10 seconds then gradually closing it. This MAY put the PCM into its own
'learn mode' and assist the IAC valve to learn its threshholds (ie limits of movement - 100% closed to 100% open) and give you a steady idle. My
fingers are crossed for you...
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Brad
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 06:15 PM |
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The EJ22 ECU isn't real sensitive to the number of sigs it gets a rev. It just needs to know that you are lowing down so it can adjust to the idle
map and actually idle. If you don't have one you will get firstly an Error on the ECU (Code 33).
If you don't have a VSS hooked up your ECU will give you the code BUT it doesn't seem to do it untill you go for a bit of a drive.
I have tried a few different signals now to test the theory and I can use 4 - 8 without any issues, fault codes or diagnostic problems. That is why I
picked the VDO unit as it was simple, easy to install and very robust.
The weird thing about VSS issues is that it is not constant. Sometimes it will idle, other times it will not. It is a bugger .. but the VDO sensor
fix's it so does any of the other methods mentioned.
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seagull
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 09:32 PM |
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Ok cheers guys .For my set up to fit the VDO unit is a very big job motor bike speedo with no room to move .
So my options are
1 ) fit the hall unit with magnets to the CV
2) fit the hall unit with magnets to the main crank pully ie insert the magnets in the ally pully I have .
can proximity be used ??? is so what type ?
seagull
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 11:11 PM |
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jeez, I've got a lot to learn.....
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seagull
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 11:23 PM |
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I would just like to learn what the hell fault code 39 is , its getting to me ( ! )
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Jenny
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| posted on July 28th, 2005 at 07:47 AM |
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I've checked all my fault code listings and can't find a 39.
Maybe the guy who got you the wiring diagram can help or speak to someone at Suabru about the fault code?
Re VSS, plenty of the newer bikes use them. I know Suzuki SV650 does and Harley Davidson (or was it Buell?) has one that counts the holes/slots in the
brake disc rotor, so maybe you could run it like that? What is your bike speedo from? Is it mechanically driven or does it want a VSS signal?
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 barls
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| posted on July 28th, 2005 at 08:22 AM |
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i wonder if its like some of the stuff at work where if you get a fault code that doesnt exsist its a combination of 2. so maybe a fault of 3 and 9 or
30 and 9. hope this helps peoples
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gull
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| posted on July 28th, 2005 at 11:00 AM |
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Jenny the speedo is cable driven .I did ask about the fault 39 they had no idea .
I going to check a few more ground pionts .
Good news I sent WES the diagrams for the group , so I hope some one can find a section there where I may be wrong . seagull
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Jenny
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| posted on July 29th, 2005 at 09:24 AM |
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Hmm you might be on to something there Barls... worth checking Neil.
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Transparu
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| posted on August 4th, 2005 at 10:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
The EJ22 ECU isn't real sensitive to the number of sigs it gets a rev. . .. . . . . .
I have tried a few different signals now to test the theory and I can use 4 - 8 without any issues, fault codes or diagnostic problems.
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Brad, do you know if the Subaru will accept 2 only pulses? I have a Cruise Control unit that will handle 2 pulses only and I was hoping to use the
same two magnets for both devices. Using 4 confuses the CC unit - I don't think it can think fast enough. Comments?
Thanks,
Dave
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axel77
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| posted on August 31st, 2006 at 10:25 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
this one is made for a speedo cable cut and place it inline , it comes with many different adapters to suit cables , the only problem is the number of
pulses this has two , and no adapter for the vw speedo male fitting .
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G'day everyone, this topic is constantly being discussed but I thought I"d bring it up again as there seems to be a lot more experience out there
now with the EJ22 in VeeDub bus thing. Pete, did you end up finding an adapter for your cable from this guy in Sydney? If so, how did the ECU cope
with only 2 pulses? There seem to be so many different solutions to the Vss problem from CV mounted units (both homemade and commercial) there is a
guy in UK that sells them for 90 pounds (including shipping), VDO units from COR at about 250AUD (I think). This option from seems to be a fair bit
cheaper at 120AUD. Also I have been told many different things about 2, 4, 6 pulses. Some say there is no problem with the number of pulses, the ECU
just wants to know whether the car is speeding up or slowing down to change its Map. Any comments from people would be appreciated.
Cheers, Axel.
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subaruboxer
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| posted on September 2nd, 2006 at 02:59 AM |
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I am using a unit with two pulses without any problems.
I think the ecu needs just to know if the car is moving or standing at idle!?
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flat_iv
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| posted on September 2nd, 2006 at 06:02 AM |
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Subaruboxer, type of unit are you using?
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