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 ian in sydney
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| posted on January 30th, 2003 at 07:16 PM |
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Kombi fridge question
The fridge in a 74 Kombi just purchased is an Electrolux.
It doesn't seem to do anything at all either on 12v or 240v. Are there any simple steps I can take to test the connections before having to go to
an auto electrician?
Can the electrical supply be okay and the fridge still unworking (maybe no coolant gas or something?)?
The gas operation works in that the burner lights up, but after 10 mins or so the pipes at the back didn't seem any colder, nor did the little
freezer plate inside the fridge.
Any ideas?
Ta.
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Bobbles
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| posted on January 30th, 2003 at 08:14 PM |
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Mine usually takes more than 10 mins for something to happen - try 20 or 30.
Bob
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ian in sydney
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| posted on January 30th, 2003 at 08:21 PM |
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Thanks Bob.
How long does your gas last and do you have a typical procedure?
When I saw the burner light up I tought the gas would run out pretty quickly, but I'm sure they designed it better than that so you could have it
on for a number of evenings before having to refill the gas.
I imagine you'd run the 3 way fridges on 12 volts while driving, 240v when in a campsite, then gas overnight if you ever stopped away from a
power source? Was the gas option more of a getout type clause for occasional use only?
Ian
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david
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| posted on January 30th, 2003 at 08:28 PM |
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they are moody
those old electrolux are not very flash the gas is a joke its probably had it ,i took mine in to get it looked at and the guy said it was not worth
the trouble ,buy an engel and have a good fridge they rock and dont suck much power on 12 volt like the electrolux
dave:o:o
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KOM123
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| posted on January 31st, 2003 at 12:57 AM |
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I only run our Electrolux on gas because I can't seem to get it to run on 240v. Probably something really simple but haven't taken the time
yet to have alook at it myself or by an auto electrician. I know that if you try to plug from an external source at a caravan site into the power
point on the outside of the Kombi it always shorts indicating to me that something is not earthed (by the way, hope someone can give me some
suggestions here on what to look for  )
I've certainly had no trouble with the gas and use it often including the long weekend just gone by. On a three day camping stay I usually go
through about half a 4kg gas bottle in constant use whihc I didn't think was too bad at all?
Although I haven't got the 12v to work I heard it reall y sucks up the juice.
And I'd let it run for 20 mins first then check inside the little freezer type box for a temperature change.
hope this helps
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bullyboy
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| posted on January 31st, 2003 at 07:18 AM |
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Ian,
I have the electrolux 12/240/gas - Its pretty good. The gas and 240 work really well (even ices up) but the 12V just keeps it cool.
When you fire it up it will take 20-30m to feel the cold on the inside element on gas or 240. on 12v feeling the cold can take longer.
I usually don't leave the gas on overnight coz I'm paranoid of an explosion, and if you're not opening it it will stay cold till the
morning.
good luck - get the gas going - it's the only option in you have an allergy to caravan parks!
Bullyboy!
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on January 31st, 2003 at 07:44 AM |
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If your fridge is wired like mine, it will only run on 12v when the ignition is on. As it sucks 8A this is probably not a bad idea!
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ian in sydney
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| posted on January 31st, 2003 at 09:15 AM |
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At the risk of exposing my miniscule amount of knowledge about all things motor-related in general......
So would I be correct in thinking that if the 12 volt works, it would be fine to leave it on 12 volts while we are driving down to Adelaide, because
the engine is going all the time nothing is going to get drained?
Then when we stop get it off 12v as it would drain the battery, and switch to gas or 240v?
My 240v seems to work okay in that the power sockets someone installed work fine in powering a fluro light and any other 240v item, I'm just not
sure if anything is happening with the fridge.
Great news about the gas, means we should easily get to Adelaide using gas while parked up and for cooking as well.
Is the danger of gas explosion something that is well recognised in Kombis? Mine seems to have been well looked after so I'm just assuming it
works okay and doesn't leak, but guess its worth getting tested somewhere.
Ian
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on January 31st, 2003 at 04:34 PM |
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Ive got an electrolux too. gotta admit, it does suck a lot of power, but ive had it almost to freezing point on 240v, seems pretty damn good to me.
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool
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Bobbles
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| posted on February 2nd, 2003 at 07:17 PM |
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This is the second Electrolux fridge I've had in a Kombi. My '82 aircooled had the same (Sopru) conversion as my current '84
watercooled. The fridge appears to be the same model.
All 3 modes seem to take 20 - 30 mins to ice up the cold plate.
12v keeps the cold plate icy when driving, all day. (The one in the earlier van just kept it cold).
In the '82, it would flatten a battery in minutes if accidentally left on 12v with the motor not running. The '84 hasn't done this,
however, and a couple of times I have accidentally left it switched on for 15 minutes or so without apparently flattening the battery.
In both cars, a switch has been fitted so that you can just reach down from the driver's seat and cut the 12v power to the fridge. (In my
'84, it's just an ordinary domestic 240v wall switch!). I try to make this a standard procedure when stopping and turning the engine
off.
I always switch from both to one battery when stopping for the night, start on the other one in the morning then switch to both to charge both (taking
care not to blow the alternator diodes by switching past 'off' with the motor running - that is, always rotate from 1-2-both not
1-off-both. I learned that the hard way in my boat, and had to crank a diesel to start it for a week when away cruising, and rely on solar panels to
charge batteries enough for radio and lights).
If 240v is available, I use it. It keeps the cold plate icy.
If not, I find gas turned on full also keeps the cold plate icy at night.
In my last trip, using gas 5 nights for fridge and 7 nights for cooking, I used over 1/2 a 4kg bottle.
I always turn off the gas at the bottle before starting up the motor and travelling.
The difference between my earlier and current fridge suggests to me it's worth having your Electrolux fridge serviced!
If your 240v shorts when connected, I would urgently seek the services of an electrician, before you fry yourself.
Finally, re Engel fridges: a bit more I learned when yarning with other boaties. Engels have a 'swing motor', where the compressor piston
is moved up and down by a coil that surrounds the cylinder. As the refrigerant heats up it expands, and the piston has less room to move unless the
compressor draws a lot more power to maintain the same temp. There are other brands of modern camping fridge (e.g., Waeco) that use a Danfoss
compressor with more moving parts - conrods and crankshaft- but greater efficiency in this respect. (An Engel dealer I asked about this got angry
) Engels have a good reputation for reliability, but do chew a lot of
juice.
Hope that all helps someone!
Cheers,
Bob
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david
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| posted on February 2nd, 2003 at 09:07 PM |
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beg to differ
we have a 60 litre (big) engel fridge set up with dual batteries and have left it on battery only for 3 days and still going strong we have the
insulated bag for it ,it can be turned up to freeze if you want and when you have finished going in and out of it in the evening you turn it right
down ,so i can understand why the engel man got huffy with you
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Bobbles
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| posted on February 3rd, 2003 at 07:31 AM |
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Didn't mean to upset another Engel person! 
I guess the difference might be marginal, but more important in yachts where you may only want to run the motor for 10 or 20 mins. a day. Most of us
used ice in a built in insulated box, and the discussion was about the least power-hungry way of converting this to 12v.
Anyway, so far (touch wood) I am pleased with the old Electrolux in my Kombi!
Bob
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aussiebug
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| posted on February 3rd, 2003 at 04:27 PM |
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There are two types of fridge being discussed here, so it's apples and oranges.
The 3-way fridges (gas, 12v and 240v) all work on the absorbtion system - they have no motor driven compressor.
Then there is the Engle type which is usually just 12v/240v (no gas) which has a compressor - just like a miniature version of your domestic fridge.
You can hear the compressor when it is running - just like a domestic fridge.
The compressor type fridges will cool down faster than the absorbtion types and are a little more efficient too. And with some you can set the
temperature so they even become a freezer.
But since they can not run on LPG, they are less flexible (for a camper) than the 3-way fridges. They will work well on 12v with the engine running,
but if you plan on camping away from power sources, you can't run them for any lenght of time unless you keep the engine running to charge the
battery.
The 3-way (absorbtion cycle) fridges are completely quiet in operation, and slow to get cooled down, so it's hard to tell that they are
working.
One thing not appreciated by many folks is that for an absorbtion (3 way) fridge to work at it's best - it needs to be completely still and
upright, since it relies on gases turning to liquid inside the tubes at the back and tricking down to the bottom through the shallow-angle tubes, to
be heated again (remember there is no motor to DRIVE the fluids around the system). When driving, the constant movement of the vehicle disturbs this
trickle down process so the fridge is less efficient. THAT'S why it usually works better on 240v or gas - since the camper is stationary when
using these fuels.
So the best technique for using the 3-way fridges is to use 240v or gas to get them cold first (overnight for example), and then fill it up with
already cold food before turning it to 12v when you start out on the road, and converting back to 240 or gas when stopped, both for efficiency and to
save your battery.
The 12v system will quickly flatten a battery - at say 8 amps, a fresh 50 amp-hour battery (your average sized auto battery) will be flat in about 6
hours, and probably won't have enough left to start the engine after about 4 hours. A high capacity camper battery will last longer of
course.
The fridges don't use a LOT of gas, but since it might be running continuously for hours or days when camped, and the normal bottle fitted to
campers is only about 4kg, it will use up gas faster than just cooking for example. So you will need to experiment to determine how many hours you
can get out of a gas bottle, then you'll know how long you can stay out in the bush and still get a cool beer.
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aussiebug
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| posted on February 3rd, 2003 at 04:33 PM |
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Oh - and Ian, where will you be in Adelaide (I'm in Gawler).
And when?
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ian in sydney
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| posted on February 3rd, 2003 at 11:33 PM |
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We are leaving Wed night and taking til Sunday to drive down, haven't decided yet whehter to leave sydney via the coast route or head inland
until M'bourne.
If we arrive unscathed we have no idea as yet where we're going to live in adelaide, we've got 4 weeks courtesy of the company in a hotel so
we can check the locations out.
Cheers for fridge advice, enuf to write a book
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on February 4th, 2003 at 08:58 AM |
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To people with Electrolux 3-way absorbtion fridges - you can 'soup them up' to cool faster and better.
All you have to do is mount a small 12V electric fan - say an old one from a PC, or a complete 10cm one from Dick Smith - at the bottom rear of the
fridge below all the rear pipes. Wire it up so you can switch it on or off independently of the fridge.
When you turn on the fan, it blows air over the heat exchanger coils, which improves their operation.
If the cooling is still a bit sus, you can still buy replacement heating elements from Electrolux. You will have to take the zinc box at the back
apart to get to it (it's full of fibreglass insulation). It looks like a thick metal pencil with two wires coming out the bottom.
I was quoted $550 to regas mine, but luckily mine doesn't need that.
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aussiebug
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| posted on February 4th, 2003 at 12:22 PM |
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Phil, the fan trick is a good one. The fridges work due to the difference in temp between the gas flowing through the coiling coils and the heated
gas near the burner, so better cooling for the coils can certainly improve the cooling inside the box. In fact that goes for the compressor fridges
too - get rid of the heat in the coils faster and the fridge cools better.
Anyone tried one of the Peltier Device fridges? They have a solid state semi conductor which gets hot on one side and cold on the other when you pass
a current through it. So the device sirts in the wall or roof of the box with the cold side inside and the hot side outside.
They are not very (electrically) efficient, but can work well with good insulation. And the best part is that the device itself has no moving parts,
so it will work in any position/attitude. With a tiny fan both inside and out to circulate the cool and and blow away the hot air, they would
probably make quite good camper fridges.
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