| [ Total Views: 710 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 38983 ] |
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 wizardroadster
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 posted on May 11th, 2005 at 06:06 PM |
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fuel - unleaded with or without additive?
I know this been talked about already, I have read those posts.
I have a 1.5 litre air cooled engine. Some people have said using shell optimax or premium unleaded you wont need that additive stuff... is that true
or will you need the additive regardless of the type of unleaded fuel. I talked to the mechanic at this VW workshop for older VW's he said you can
use it but eventually the engine/valves will get damaged,wont be right away but its a gradual process.... any further ideas would be good.
Thanks
Nick 
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dusto81
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| posted on May 11th, 2005 at 06:18 PM |
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I've been told because of the steel inserts in the valve seats on VW's you can run normal unleaded without an additive and it's fine. I've ben
running both premium and normal in my kombi and it runs fine on either. My engine is a 2 litre but I think the earlier VW engines have steel inserts
too. There tends to be a lot of different views but going from my experience it's been fine. Although an additive might be a nice extra measure...
Cheers,
Dustin
[Edited on 11-5-2005 by dusto81]
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Oasis
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| posted on May 11th, 2005 at 06:19 PM |
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No additive necessary, even on normal octane fuel, but it doesn't hurt to add it if you're worried. Also only use premium if you need the higher
octane (to stop pinging), or if your car is noticeably more economical on it, otherwise it's a waste of money.
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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type3lover
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| posted on May 11th, 2005 at 07:23 PM |
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So which VW engines have the hardened valve seats from the factory?
Is it only the valve seats that will benefit from the additive? I generally use the flashlube brand additive which describes itself as an "upper
cylinder lubricant. When I use the Shell LRP I don't bother with the additive. I'm also keen to hear what ppl have to say on this topic...
Cheers!
Toby
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lauzboy
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| posted on May 11th, 2005 at 10:07 PM |
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What you said about heads wearing out eventually is spot on. unless you have hardened valve seats in which case dont bother with the additive
I use 98 octane fuel with additive. My uncle used to be an engineer for a famous aussie aircraft company. They did testing on the additive and how it
affected their engines. The result was that the heads ran cooler.
Also from my own university engineering studies i know that using a higher octane fuel means increased efficiency in extracting energy. For the same
volume of fuel you will get higher energy out, or to put it another way, the same power out for less volume of fuel
If you were going to be racing your engine, or running the tits off it everyday to work, then you will notice the power increase. But for the rest of
us daily drivers you'll notice smoother running, possible quieter engine noise, lower engine temps and most importantly, better fuel economy
Dont believe me? Just do 1 full tank of 98 octane (with additive if you dont have hardened valve seats) and see. It'll cost ya probably about $5
extra but its worth it
Lastly as for Shell Optimax, my mechanic Andrew Dodd, reckons hes extensively used it but found it leaves a residue on spark plugs and generally
doesnt burn that well. Dunno how true this is but ill take his word for it. Been using Mobile 8000 or BP Ultimate
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64vwmark
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 05:55 AM |
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I use ultimate 98 and upper cylinder lubricant. I bought a 1 litre bottle of the upper cyl lubricant for about 14 bucks and this will last me for
months, which is much cheaper than getting my heads re-done.
Beach Buggy
74 L Beetle
Mk4 Golf |
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squizy
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 10:17 AM |
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I've been using Caltex 98 ron for the past 3 years. My test for increased power is the Mooney Mooney hill, for which I am 10-15 kmph faster going up.
No additives needed. and no rebuild.....touch wood.
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Kombi_Rescue
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 12:04 PM |
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vw cyl heads are designed to use unleaded fuel as the us market was vw biggest. unleaded fuel eg california is all you could use ...think there are
still a lot of aircooleds running over there? vw valve seats are pretty tough! over heating due to poor fuel quality is the major killer......be
careful on reco heads as they usually bump up the CR ...higher compression=higher headvtemps on regular fuel = increased oil consumption=more deposits
in cyl head chambers and sparkplugs=a short lived aircooled experience?.......most valve failure other than burnt valves are loose valve
seats..overheated heads that crack thru the exhaust port to the exhaust seat which in turn beome loose...try and keep it cool..run quality fuel
sensible compression and a correctly tuned engine will give good service..cheers DSK steve
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wizardroadster
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 12:41 PM |
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still no 100% sure answer though lol
I guess its just up to the individual to decide what they want to do based upon the info given here.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 12:56 PM |
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Standard motor - standard unleaded.
Compression ratio higher than 8:1 use Premium.
Hardened valve seats dont need additives.
Use additives if it makes you feel better
Futue te ipsum!!!
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lugnuts
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 04:54 PM |
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And i quote: First,"ALL"factory VW air cooled heads from 1967 and later with the hard chromed stem valves can run unleaded fuelsw just the way they
come from the factory."ALL"VW heads have steel intake seats,hardened steel alloy exhaust seats,brass guides and tri-metal exhaust valves,which have
hard chromed stems.GB may he rest in peace.:thumb |
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Tnate
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 05:03 PM |
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Just read the little plate near your fuel tank, or the owners manual.
It clearly states that the minimum requirement is 91 RON (standard uleaded). You can go as far above this number as you want, but just dont go below
it (which is hard to do, as Australian standard is 91 RON for unleaded fuel.)
Regular unleaded is absolutely fine.
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Oasis
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 05:17 PM |
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^^^^ unless your CR is higher, i.e. your heads aren't stock, as Barry (Bizarre) said. I read somewhere that Germany had only unleaded fuel from the
60s. Can anyone confirm this?? I can't remember where I read it... maybe on this forum?
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 06:00 PM |
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I know Californication has not had leaded for about that time
Futue te ipsum!!!
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type3lover
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 06:30 PM |
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Sorry guys but since I butted in on the post I'm gonna run with it. I still don't feel 100% confident that I can run unleaded in my stock kombi
based on a quote from God (GB).
The PO always ran flashlube additive with unleaded. Also, what does this stuff do to the RON of the fuel used, if anything? I know that my 68 notch
has hardened seats, but that's beacuse I had them fitted when the heads were semihemi'd and had the 3 angle cut done. Don't want to be a pessimist
on this, just want to be sure!
Cheers!
Toby
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 07:26 PM |
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hey.... that is fine ....... it just means there is a whole lot of bugs in Cali... USA..... Europe........ not to mention mine that HAVENT been using
additives.
:thumb
not bagging at all here....... just confirming (sorry stating) that they are a feel good product for bugs.
Since 1967 ALL VW heads had hardened seats
If you want more back up read here
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/search.php?mode=results
Look in particular from a person called Marc.... fairly knowledgable(sp?? i'm tired)
I would save the pennies for something else... better oil and plugs??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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kroozzn63
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 09:14 PM |
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i asked vintage veedubb supplies they said definately yes "valvemaster "
plus unleaded , i use that with optimax in a 1600 unknown of whatengine setup and she runs awesome with optimax
show us your gates
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 barls
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 09:20 PM |
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i use flash lube in both of my bugs no problems oh and premium unleaded ether the 98 if im on the highway or just the 95-6 around town. cause i found
my bug pings and carries on on unleaded.
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 09:24 PM |
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what compression and advance are you at Barls??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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barls
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| posted on May 12th, 2005 at 09:27 PM |
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stock compression but not sure what advance as my old man set it initially and i havent changed it. it will run on unleaded but not as well as it did
on the old super.
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aggri1
A.k.a.: Aurel Griesser
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| posted on May 13th, 2005 at 05:34 PM |
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I notice some pinging in certain situations (eg - uphill, before I change down - don't lug it!) even on Premium. I use BP Ultimate whenever
possible, but have never used valve lube. I think I will after the impending engine rebuild, but eh, probably not necessary is it?
Cheers!
Aurel.
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 13th, 2005 at 08:43 PM |
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are you certain what your timing is???
Futue te ipsum!!!
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