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 76bug
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 09:11 AM |
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supercharging
hi everyone
i know this is not a new topic, but i was wondering if anyone in australia has had any success supercharging their motor. i have been toying with the
idea of usin a mr2 s/c, any pics would be a big help
thanks
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56astro
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 10:13 AM |
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"The Cranky One" drag car was twin supercharged. I don't know of any street supercharged ones though.
There are some getting around in Europe. Go to ShopTalkForums and search in the forced induction forum.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 10:25 AM |
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try this link
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=439#pid5318
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This was my mate Steve's , Now he got it sorted on a Kombi
with the blower that you mentioned.
This is more difficult because Kombi's tend to run hotter - which
he found. He did this install with no special equipment
and did most work himself.
Manifold is the hardest thing - it needs to line up all the
pulleys.
There was another Guy did blower on a Type three.
(he is on this forum somewhere)
He said that he was getting lots of belt slip but that when
it didnt slip it was awsome.
Hope you do it, I have been trying for couple of years to get mine
finished but havent yet.
Regards,Glenn>
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 10:47 AM |
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CBB also did a blown type 4 in a kombi and it has been running daily on the street for close to (if not more than) two years.
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76bug
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 03:27 PM |
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would u have some pics of your progress sofar ovalglen? wot type of supercharger are you usin?
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 06:21 PM |
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what I need (as Matt would know) is a kick up the
B*m. I should have finished it all by about feb this year.
I will gladly share with you but I havent got it all together yet and I expect that sorting out the last issues will be the
most helpful.
I will get some pics.
My blower is an expensive (and now fairly old and outdated)
unit from USA - called a Magnacharger (MC80) Very popular with the
big Harley hot rodders. It looks like a minaturised GMC 671.
The blower on Mikes drag car (although he now has two ,
he used to have one) is the Toyota 2 Litre blower. The 1600
Toyota blower (although cheaper & incidently the one on the Kombi)
is smaller and would not be my choice.
The Toyota 2 L blower is a very nice unit for the money but it does have limitations.
Mike found that it can only put out so much boost and then it
will not go higher no matter how much harder you drive it.
I think that it was up at the 24lbs boost so this shouldnt be a problem for you.
I only intend to run 8lbs boost, this is not much when compared to turbos but the boost comes on at just above
idle and increases torque incredibly so that you dont need to make
high end boost like in a turbo and will still motivate Very Well.
[Edited on 18-5-2005 by OvalGlen]
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 06:35 PM |
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of course I could link you to my rides section but what the heck, I'd love to post these again.
My manifold when it was 1/2 done
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Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 06:40 PM |
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A mock up on the engine (spare in shed),
excuse the poor pic quality, I must borrow the wifes good digital and get clearer pics.
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Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 06:43 PM |
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Above pic: the carby is the traditional 45 Sidedraft Weber.
Next pic from other side
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Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 06:50 PM |
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I know you are thinking, you cant have the blower above the fan housing.!
but this is a cut down housing (well the duct section for the
heater horns has been removed) and I conceded that I wasnt
going to be able to keep it under the lid so - stuff it I'll make it fit.
Next is mock up to show just how much it hangs out.
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Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 07:04 PM |
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So basically a line straight up from the the glass face
of the tail lights and slightly higher than the bottom of the grill
Lucky its an Oval , so the rear window is higher.
The idea of spare wheel cover is pretty lame, My latest thought is some kind of metal cover.
-
Work has progressed a bit since these pics were taken,
but the big hold up is due to a design fault (mine on the manifold)
and poor welding by me, resulting in some porosity
in the manifold. I was so looking forward to finishing it
and when I pressure tested it and found the very small
leaks all over the place (at 20 lbs press.) I was very
dis-heartened and havent done much since.
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 07:37 PM |
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Ok. Mike made the pulleys up for me.
I decided that the multi Vee belt was the one to go for 5P.
As you could see if pic was clear, the fan belt is still in place
and the multi vee fits next to it.
The manifold picks up 5 bolts on top of the Engine case and
will use the standard alloy ends (although ported a bit).
I have made a brace that ties the front of the manifold (side
close to fire wall) over the top of the fan housing to a bolt
on top of the crank case close to the Flywheel.
I made a tensioner L bracket that accepts the Commodore
belt tensioner.
-
What I noticed is that the Toyota Blower needs a different
type of mount as its sealing face studs are not as strong as on mine. It uses two wide braces on its sides to hold the unit down.
The Toyota blower is especially suited to dry air with fuel injection closer to heads.
It would be really trick to incorporate the bypass system and
clutch that these Toyota blowers have on the cars but
would be complex.
My brother is starting to set up a 2 L one up on a circuit car
and he got me to redo the Toyota blower pulley with the
clutch removed, in aid of reducing the turning weight.
It was a lot of work and didnt remove all that much weight
but I guess every bit helps.
Brother is using a Commodore (water pulley I think) on his crank pulley and will drive his
generator with same belt but his will run fair bit of boost so
dont think this would be good for you.
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 07:54 PM |
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One burning issue is How Much boost do I want and what
speed do I turn blower to achieve this?
I did not have any other set ups to go by Except in a Magazine
that showed a 2L Toyota Pick up with my blower on it.
My is a 1916cc , Article said that he ran 1.3 : 1
thats 30 % over driven & this gave 14 lbs boost coming
in at 10lbs just above idle, this would be too much for me.
And mine is only 1.9L , so after doing some comparitive
calcs I decided that 1.2 : 1 should do mine.
I could only find pulley to make 1.18 : 1 so thats what I will
start with. I tried to find how to accurately calc boost but
it is Really Difficult and still not Guaranteed, so a try and see will
have to do.
Your blower has had a few more applications and so you
should be able to get better info for your best Guess.
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 08:12 PM |
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In determining how much boost you will run,
you need to be conservative for on the street if you are
to run Premium ULP.
I have a rough calc for comparing boosted dynamic
compression to static compression ratio to get approximation.
You start of with say my static comp of 7.8 :1 and with the boost of 7 lbs I think it is equivalent to 9.2 : 1.
From memory the highest comp used on PULP for
the Volksy is around 9.0:1 with out pinging when using
34 deg advance (is that right? 34 deg) so I will have to retard ignition (from memory) 4 deg when on boost to avoid
detonation.
I am doing this with a crude - boost pushing diaphram to
retard the advance mechanism plate in the dizy.
I have most of this sorted but may need to refine the
spring tension to allow slower rate of retard if I can.
Any questions?
I really should dig up the calcs and edit this post when I get a chance.
But you can see its a bit hit and miss untill you've done it
then do you give away all that hard fought knowledge?
I prob will and am glad that people like Ratty in the Aftermarket EFI thread are sharing but some work shops
need to make a living from all their work.
-
What is your aim?
What size motor?
Regards,Glenn>
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MUD BASHING ANYONE ??
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 08:18 PM |
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I have been doing a bit of thinking about supers and ringing people such as importers and such and ill sare the info i got. Starting with yatala auto
wreakers have lots of them and are rather cheap they have the 1600mr2 4agze + one of a 1300 somthing and a 2lt one and he said they would work great i
was looking at the little one as he said they could be over driven by150% without a worrie in the world and could run up to a 2.5lt and are small and
compact with a electric clutch. Then there was rollin imports and he told me that they can't be run without a computer that tells it to turn off and
by pass the blower on over run like going down a hill with your foot off as your motor would cause such a great vacum that it would suck the seals out
and fill it with oil, I think that is bulls%$# i have seen many suck throught systems work for years with out failure and if the seals didn't blow
out on boost why would they suck out under vacum and how much vac would there be when its still spining pumping boost plase share your thoughts
Tim
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 08:58 PM |
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The 1300 one can just about fit behind the fan housing and can be
hidden under the deck lid. Hopefully some one who has more experience can tell what the seals are like.
I know Mike ran one of these with out bypass but he did do some mods
to it so that may need to be checked out. I believe they do
have some issues when running fuel mixture through rotors
but not sure what.
I would not be keen to over drive them too much, I know they will take the revs but dont think the efficiency would be
good from what Mike found.
But proof is in the doing - might be fine at low boost so why not?
Regards,Glenn>
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MUD BASHING ANYONE ??
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| posted on May 19th, 2005 at 12:38 PM |
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I spose there is only one way to find out
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on May 19th, 2005 at 01:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by OvalGlen
I believe they do
have some issues when running fuel mixture through rotors
but not sure what.
I would not be keen to over drive them too much, I know they will take the revs
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From a Toyota specialist...
The blowers are better run dry and can be substantially overdriven dry. If they are run wet, they shouldn't carry the entire fuel load (ie, most of
the fuel should be injected after the blower) espcially if being overdriven.
The blower will cavitate when run wet at more than 1.3:1 at revs over 3000.
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 19th, 2005 at 07:11 PM |
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Hey Matt , wouldnt a blower look the part on a Hot Rodded
chop top Beetle ?
Regards,Glenn>
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on May 19th, 2005 at 08:31 PM |
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Would Glen but for the $.
And it's heading more kustom than rod now... but who knows, by the time it is re-chopped the kids mightn't be kids anymore and might be able to
adding some serious moomba to the mill.
I'd rather actually spend some time tooking at the belt driven turbo type thingies... you knw the ones I mean.
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on May 20th, 2005 at 09:10 AM |
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As in centrifugal superchargers?
Kruizin Kol
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Mad Manx
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| posted on May 26th, 2005 at 08:16 PM |
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i did a s/c set up on my manx (blow through) not many pics as i had only a web cam then, using a mr2 s/c, its off now being converted to suck through
using a 44mm SU.
[imghttp://users.tpg.com.au/travin/blower.jpg[/img]
im not sure how it will go as suck through, im worryed the ceremic coating may be affected by the fuel.
this is the pully i had machined to accept v and ribbed belts.
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05  ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable) |
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Mad Manx
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| posted on May 26th, 2005 at 08:27 PM |
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heres one i missed- will have to find the rest
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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pete wood
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| posted on May 31st, 2005 at 03:37 PM |
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Man, love it.
Can I make a suggestion?
About a decade ago I saw an article on a sigma turbo conversion. They advised adapting an EA falcon throttle body with the injectors on it, onto the
inlet manifold after the turbo, or in this case the blower. Using it in conjunction with a basic fuel/ignition ECU from say, microtech, they reckoned
it would work really well.
Now I know you'd have to sort an electronic distributor and a surgetank/fuel pump, but that would get rid of the issue of wet charge in the blower
and allow you to intercool it down the track if you wish.
Just a thought. 
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MUD BASHING ANYONE ??
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on June 2nd, 2005 at 06:11 PM |
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What carb did you run on the blow through?
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on June 2nd, 2005 at 06:34 PM |
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The early camiras were throttle body injection too, these parts are cheap and easily found, and I believe that the computers are very similar to the
Delco 808, thus are able to be recalibrated via the Kalmaker system.
Alternatively you could probablt run TBI with a full Delco / Kalmaker system. Would have to ask the experts on that one. Would certainly be a very
simple and neat setup - no modifying dual port end castings etc etc.
But it does beg the question if you are going TBI then why not go full multi point injection ?
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pete wood
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| posted on June 2nd, 2005 at 06:53 PM |
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Doug you're stealing my thoughts again 
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on June 2nd, 2005 at 09:36 PM |
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Pete I was thinking along the same lines but using a mr2 throttle body and then drill and taping my twin port manifolds with injectors. Also
considering mechanical injectors to do away with $1100 electronics. My compufire and 009 can be used as a crank angle sensor though if I do win the
lotto and do this properly. But im the cheap arse weld it up and make it for nothing type.... the set up I had cost me $300 ($250 for the s/c, six
pack for the pulley and the rest on materials) one day tho... I'm having too much fun breaking what I made at the moment:thumb http://aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39903
Mudbasher i used my holley bugspray to blow through, some small air leaks that I missed but it went ok apart from gaskets
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
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pete wood
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| posted on June 3rd, 2005 at 10:22 AM |
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fair enuf, break and build up better each time. :thumb
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boof2332
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| posted on June 10th, 2005 at 12:17 AM |
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We had another thread on supercharging a while back....I will have a look.
Another really good, compact blower is the eaton m45 from the slk mercedes. There are slight differences depending on what capacity the merc
was...come where 2.3 and some 2 litre...the slk2.3 is the best. Can get them on ebay in the states and land them for about $420(total).
You have all seen Moggy's car...its an m62 because he has a big t4 motor....
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