| [ Total Views: 818 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 40475 ] |
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 squidlys
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 posted on June 13th, 2005 at 11:07 AM |
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removing cooling tin
i'am rebilding a 2liter vw aircold for my kombi need to now if i can remove some of the cooling tin when i put the motor back together if so what
ones cen be removed from the motor |
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 Bizarre
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 11:57 AM |
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No.
It all has a reason for being there. Important reasons, like - you will cook the motor if it ALL doesnt go back on
Futue te ipsum!!!
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PurpleT3
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 12:42 PM |
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Why do you want to remove some of the tin ware?
Like Bizarre said, every single piece is necessary to ensure the engine does not overheat. Furthermore, each piece must be in good nick and securely
screwed down. Also make sure that the foam engine bay seal is properly installed and doesn't leak anywhere.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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76camper
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 02:29 PM |
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The WORST thing you can do when rebuilding a air cooled engine is not putting ALL of the tin back properly! Its like not putting radiator hoses in a
watercooled.... STUPID. Also spending an extra 2 hours getting all the tin to sit perfectly will mean you engine will run ALOT cooler and last longer
between rebuilds. DONT LEAVE ANY TIN OFF ITS THERE FOR A REASON!
[Edited on 13-6-2005 by 76camper] |
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greedy51
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 03:33 PM |
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no no no no no no
Pimp my Hide
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 helbus
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 04:20 PM |
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Especially don't leave out the fiddly little ones that sit between the bores an the head. They are important to deflect the air where it is needed.
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 13th, 2005 at 10:53 PM |
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Don't forget the ones under the pushrod tubes either. They are easy to neglect.
Helbus, I hate those little fiddly ones you mentioned! The thread for the screw that holds them in place on one side was stripped. Took me hours to
get that to stay.
OH! Make sure all bungs, plugs etc are in the tinware too. Especially for the heads. And get sparky leads with the rubber gaskets that stop
airflow.
most importantly, check that the air thermostat assembly vanes can move freely.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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squidlys
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 posted on June 15th, 2005 at 09:11 AM |
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well thanks i gess i will be puting all the tin back this motor its cost a lot off cash now to keep this one going . |
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76camper
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| posted on June 15th, 2005 at 10:04 PM |
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If you dont have all the tin it would be money VERY VERY well spent on getting that piece or pieces!!!! Get the cooling right, if you dont rubber
seals etc will start to stiffen and lose their ability to seal, then you start to get oil leaks then your engine geats filthy then starts to get
REALLY hot. get it right! |
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toplessbug
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 08:46 AM |
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one more thing,,inside the fan cover there is a flap to direct air over the oil cooler-- if you dont have a thermostat make sure you glue and screw
the flap down or it will blow up and divert some oil cooler air away from it and also cause it to run hotter than it should |
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Dub-Buggier
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 09:05 AM |
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For the off-road use where the engine is blowing in the wind .... do you still need all the tinware? ??
it would be good if it was like Tupperware (lifetime warranty)
cheers all
dub
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 09:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by toplessbug
one more thing,,inside the fan cover there is a flap to direct air over the oil cooler-- if you dont have a thermostat make sure you glue and screw
the flap down or it will blow up and divert some oil cooler air away from it and also cause it to run hotter than it should
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The jury is still out on that one. I have read conflicting reports on the value of this flap depending on the driving speed and ambient air temp.
Personally, I would wonder why VW would put the part in if they didn't believe it was necessary.
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76camper
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 06:12 PM |
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you definantly need those flaps. If you dont have a thermostat the just put the spring on and leave the flaps on the "hot" setting (gives the engine
more cooling air) until you get a thermostat! Using a thermostat it takes my engine to get to running temp in winter in only 5 mins MAX. The longer
your engine takes to warm up the more wear at startup. Just remember that even though your car was made 30 years ago doesnt mean the engineers were
stupid. they did everything for a reason!! Get your engine to be as close to factory condition as possible and there is no reason why it cant run for
another 30 years! |
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68AutoBug
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 06:58 PM |
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I remember reading an article many years ago written by the now famous racing car driver Larry Perkins, who used to build & drive Beetles
in Car Rallies....
He said that Volkswagenwerk spent millions making sure that the engine worked correctly and cooled correctly, so make sure You leave the thermostat
and all tinware ON....
If it wasn't needed, VW would have left it off.......
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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toplessbug
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| posted on June 16th, 2005 at 07:38 PM |
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mns there can be no doubt about the flap im talking about ,it directs cooling air over the oil cooler and if its left out or loose the enginge will
not cool correctly period. 76 you are quite correct you should run a t/stat but they are hard to find and a lot of people dont and if you dont you
should screw the flap open so it doesnt rely on the spring alone |
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76camper
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| posted on June 17th, 2005 at 07:47 AM |
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the spring pressure on mine is huge. If you got no thermostat (GET ONE!!) otherwise make sure you have the flaps in the hot position how ever u do it |
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vw54
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| posted on June 17th, 2005 at 08:52 AM |
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nO
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 17th, 2005 at 06:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 76camper
you definantly need those flaps. If you dont have a thermostat the just put the spring on and leave the flaps on the "hot" setting (gives the engine
more cooling air) until you get a thermostat! Using a thermostat it takes my engine to get to running temp in winter in only 5 mins MAX. The longer
your engine takes to warm up the more wear at startup. Just remember that even though your car was made 30 years ago doesnt mean the engineers were
stupid. they did everything for a reason!! Get your engine to be as close to factory condition as possible and there is no reason why it cant run for
another 30 years!
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Can I have some more info on this? We are talking about the one operated by the shaft running horizontally across the motor aren't we?
If we are, when missing a thermostat (like mine) should the flap stay in its default position or be moved to the opposite extreme. I though default
position, because the thermostat expands when heated loosening the tension on the cable and making the thermostat tend toward its default springloaded
position. Therefore default = normal operating temp position.
Am I correct in this assumption?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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helbus
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| posted on June 17th, 2005 at 09:41 PM |
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Correct
The only complication can be if it is assembled incorrectly and the shaft is jammed.
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76camper
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| posted on June 17th, 2005 at 11:01 PM |
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Spot on. Its a pretty important part of the engine. Pretty tricky to fix aswell. You should be able to push the little tab around. The little tab the
wire from the thermostat would connect to. The tab should be as close to the fan housing as possible... |
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 18th, 2005 at 11:43 PM |
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Mine moves freely and has a pile of spring tension, It sits nicely where it's meant to. I checked when I had the motor out that the flaps were
sitting right. They can be a pain to get sitting correctly when putting the tinware back on, squidlys. make sure the little plastic bushes are sitting
in the right place. And make sure the rubber seal that the flaps can push up against near the oil cooler is intact. Leaky seal means incorrect
cooling.
My motor has always ran a bit hot for some reason that I can't find, so I never bothered replacing the thermostat. Everything is clean(ish),
including the oil cooler.
One other consideration. Unfortunately it is too too easy to have the exhaust pressing on the body. I always have problems with this. Especially after
some offroading. If the exhaust touches the body anywhere, your cooling will go down the drain. It can heat the whole back of the car so hot that you
can't touch it.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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76camper
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 10:00 AM |
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Dunno how you manage that my exhaust is nowhere near the body! If your engine is running hot then there is alot you can do!
make sure the air scoops dont have plumbing in them to try and ram the air over the engine, this isnt how it works. There is a huge fan that blows the
air over the engine, anything in the air scoops will just block up and reduce air flow to the engine bay.
Make sure ALL!!! of your tinware is there and all the little bolts are in place.
If you dont want to spend a few hours manipulating the tin so it fits snug and there are minimal gaps between each peice you could go an buy a tube of
silicone and fill the gaps.
Another big one is the alternator adjustment hole, we couldnt find anyone who sold the bungs to block this hole so we just cut our own out of foam.
This gap is huge and is right near the outlet of all the cooling air (which is hot when its sucked back through)
All the bungs around the, oil pressure switch, spark plug leads, heat exchanger booster pipes and the alternator one need to be in place.
And most importantly the main engine seal needs to be intact all the way around with no gaps.
If you did half of these things your bus would run ALOT cooler! Its all pretty easy stuff to do aswell. My engine oil temp is about 80-100 degrees,
but i havent driven it on a hot day in summer yet. Just remember that everything put on the engine at the factory was there for a reason, if you
didnt need it vw wouldnt have put it in there!
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 12:23 PM |
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Truer words never spoken.
I'm not missing anything (apart from the air thermostat) as far as I can tell. Still have all the bungs etc. Even have the alternator hole plug.
There's the fuel vapour cooling tubes in the air scoops. Surely they aren't all that bad...right?
Everything fits snug. I will admit I am missing a couple of little bolts though. I need to go to supercheap or whatever and by another packet. I'm
always losing the things.
The towbar inteferes severely with my exhaust.
When I got the van it _always_ overheated. Found out the reasons about a year ago. clogged barrel vanes, most of the rings were broken, an ezcessive
amount of crud under the tinware. It looked like the motor had been left to sit in a paddock under trees for about 10 years. Oddly enough it had been
rebuilt not too long before I got it.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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76camper
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 12:46 PM |
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yea those fuel vapour tubes are fine, one of the previous owners of my bus thought he was doing good by putting the pipes in.
A month after we got my bus we pulled the engine for a rebuild. couldnt see much metal at all on the engine! The thing was so filthy. It had been
rebuilt previously (buy a shop i suspect) because the case had been spray painted silver, they didnt even clean the case before they did that. Both
crank shaft seals were F****D, the bell housing was full of oil and since the rear end seal was gone oil was sucked into the air by the big fan and
the oily air blown over the engine along with dust. Worst oil leak possible i think.
Anyways its all sorted now, cooling system is shmick but the oil cooler was leaking, we took it off and replaced it and hasnt dripped a drop of oil
since (touch wood). enough dribbling, im going to sort this immobalizer
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 01:00 PM |
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Wow. Sounds like one of the worst rebuilds ever.
I feel so ignorant. What pipes did the previous owner put in? I'm just curious what you mean. Did they lead into the tinware somehow?
edit: I just looked under my van for an unrelated reason. I saw something taht jogged my memory which I have been meaning to ask about.
On the back of the motor (the end closest to the front of the van), the tinware over the barrels. I have a square hole that looks like something was
meant to bolt onto it. This never seemed right to me. I totally forgot about it.
Was something meant to go there? and if so, what was it?
[Edited on 19/6/2005 by General_Failure]
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 02:42 PM |
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Pipe: They were agricultural pipes somehow bolted to the side of car (interior pannel)... was pretty good plumbing work. Anyways i think what he
thought he was doing was using the air scoops to blow air over the crankcase. It was pvc pipe about 10cm diameter.
Sqaure hole: If the hole is on the flywheel side of the fuel pump the answer is yes there is meant to be something in there. I cant find in my manual
wat its called. But its got something to do with cold starts, its a duct that takes the warm air that has passed over the engine and sucks it through
your intake when your engine is cold. You would probably notice that on your intake manifold (big black pastic thing connecting the carbs) there is on
the RHS a circular tube that goes into a hole. On the otherside of the tinware there is a joining duct that the air travels through. If this is
confusing tell me and i will give it another go and try and take some pic's for ya. But yea, its probably not that essential in terms of cooling but
more important for cold starts etc.
Anyone else correct me if im wrong (this is just what i think its for from my knowledge).
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General_Failure
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 06:30 PM |
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I know what you are referring to.
-a few hours later-
Hey, I thought I finished this post!
Yeah, I see all that you said, in the engine bay anyway. It was too dark to see underneath. The sun had set. I know I'm missing the bit, which is
unknown to me, from the square hole. Should i seal the hole with some sheetmetal, or leave it open? I guess I could get the right part too, but that
would make too much sense.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 06:43 PM |
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just leave it till you get the bit, its probably working like an air ram and ramming cool air over the pushrod tubes. Never the less get the bit when
you can. If i were in your shoes i would get the thing runing first before you worry about cooling issues lol. good luck
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 06:51 PM |
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True. i plan on it. When I get it started it'll probably be down a few more bits of tinware too. not the most important ducting ones though. I have a
suspicion when it starts it'll still go squeak and it'll be engine out time. Which means pulling off half the tinware, the cursed oil filler and
dipstick etc. Then there's the inevitable getting jammed in the engine bay. EVERY TIME!!! YAAARRRGGHGHHHHH!!!!!!!
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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