| [ Total Views: 637 | Total Replies: 12 | Thread Id: 41789 ] |
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 barenyisbeetle
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| posted on July 16th, 2005 at 08:51 PM |
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Adjusting camber, IRS ?
Im wondering if any one can clarify how to adjust rear camber on a bay kombi,as opposed to swing axel kombi. Everything I've got says adjust
diagonal arm and check torsion bar angle,after losening spring cover.
How is this done? :jesus
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kustomkool
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| posted on July 16th, 2005 at 10:01 PM |
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Johnny I have a chart that tells you how to achieve the desired hieght.its basic.
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barenyisbeetle
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| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 10:28 AM |
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What im after is the info on how to adjust the camber at any given height.( Well as much as possible),on the bay.
From the diagram I have It shows a pipe wrench used for setting rear toe in. Does this effect camber also?
Any info on how the rear camber is set up ?, Links etc. Thanks.
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barenyisbeetle
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 01:26 PM |
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Kustomkool you are refering to swing axle. There rear geometry adjustment set up is primitive by comparision to the bay.
Ive nutted out(through diagrams),that bays spring plates have elongated holes. by loosening trailing arms to hubs and adjusting with w160 or similar
pipe wrench toe in or out can be adjusted by moving the hub in relation to centre point. crank it back or away from torsion bar toe out. Closer
results in toe in.
The camber adjustment had me stumped. What could turning the trailing arm fore or aft with big multi grip do?.
Well.. after conversing with other like minded beings,we worked out that those same elongated holes in the y plane, in unisun with the trailing arm
bush allowed a small amount of rotational adjust of trailing arm to hub centre in the horizontal. resulting in an axiel shift of the rear wheel ie
positive/neg camber degrees.
The mystery unraveled.. No more rooted tyres.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 03:52 PM |
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I don't get it-It would appear that any camber changes on an IRS back end,are a direct result of a ride height change-the lower the adjustment,the
more negative camber(only marginally) To get a large camber change-you would need to rotate the swing arm pivot box on the torsion bar tube-rotate it
lower for more negative or the reverse.Am I on the right track??????
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barenyisbeetle
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 06:54 PM |
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Yeh, ntturbo The method which you are refering to Is the way wolfsberg west describes in their Type 1 Irs conversion for split buses. I remember an
upward adjustment of that coupling piviot resulted in neg, down positive.( Hot vws nov 2000.)
What Happens in the Bay set up so far as I can tell is that the adjustment for camber relies on what angle the diagonal arm is fastented to the spring
plate at. this is dependent that spring plate height is stock. If you raised or lowered the plates via spline adjustment Im sure diagonal arm
adjustment would be an understatment in the camber equation. However The arm on the irs would surely reign in any radical camber camber change.
The bush flex in the( parallel to torsion housing in the y plane) pivot pointand the twist in the spring plate Would govern this.
Thinking about it a bit more.. I suppose if the piviot boxes on the type 1 are set at an angle then an upward rotation at torsion bar may have the
effect of 'flaring out' the diagonal arm below hub centre point and therefore producing a neg camber result. Im not familiar with 1 irs but I know
that the fabed trailing arms bolt on and maybe the factory adjustment is at that end if any. I know there welded on . Type 3 are definately at angle.
Forming an arc unlike the kombi which is parallel as mentioned. Can anyone confirm this?
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242
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| posted on July 28th, 2005 at 11:10 PM |
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Dead on the money John. Had a read the other night after our discusion (some factory manual, no pics though) and appears the camber can be adjusted
as we discussed. Type 1 and 3 diagonal arm pivot point are at the same angle i believe, this will cause the arc described by the diagonal arm to
effect camber on suspension compression, with an adjustable pivot point you could achievecorrect camber settings on lowering. However i suspect the
camber may still be adjusted slightly in the same manner of twisting the diagonal arm. When an IRS type 1 or 3 is lowered some negative camber can be
seen. A kombi (irs) on the other hand will lower with little to no camber change.
Kustomkool the swingers are a different beast altogether. Camber adjustment is completely dependent on springplate angle. Swingaxles do not have nor
require a diagonal arm.
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pete wood
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| posted on July 29th, 2005 at 01:23 PM |
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Indian makes up eccentric bushes for the diagonal connection to the inner mounting point. By rotating the bush, you can change the height of the hole
in the mounting point and alter the camber. I believe this is best way of doing it. You could elongate holes I spose but you have to ask yourself, is
this a safe practice and when have you removed too much metal?
Kustomkool, the whole reason that VW went to IRS is that swingaxles constantly changes camber randomly as it goes up and down. IRS can be set to keep
the camber static or progressive as it moves rather than random as swingaxle is. However, you can change the overall pivot point by raising and/or
lowering the gearbox. By raising it, the car sits lower but the wheels have less negative camber than they would if the gearbox was in it's standard
position. This is the procedure for lowering as done by drag racers.
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242
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| posted on July 29th, 2005 at 07:22 PM |
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Pete, John is not talking about elongating the holes in the bushing mount, rather the elongated holes already stamped into the springplate (for toe
in/out adjustment) are used for the adjustment. This is a factory adjustment for minor amounts of camber change. Indian mounts do allow for a much
larger amount of camber adjustment in IRS.
Camber does not change randomly on a swinger. It is dictated by the angle of the axle.
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pete wood
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| posted on July 30th, 2005 at 11:08 AM |
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Yes I understand the issue of elongating the holes. But changing the camber means elongating them vertically, not horizontally like they are from the
factory. The eccentric bush is much safer idea, and allows for more effective changes in tuning. This is what the racing fraternity do for such
situations. Besides, Indian already make them expressly for this purpose.
And, yes, swingaxle camber is dictated by the angle of the axle, however, for the purposes of tuning it effectively, and the way the weight of the
engine/transmission effects suspension travel, you may as well say it is random. But if you don't like the word random lets just say that it goes
through extreme changes in camber angle in the midst of it's normal operation. The only way really to effectively tune swingaxle camber is by
severely limiting the suspension travel. This is fine for smooth roads, but it makes the chassis very toey in the wet, but I spose that can be fun if
you know the car well....
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pete wood
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| posted on July 31st, 2005 at 12:41 PM |
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mmm, lots of happy :duh
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 31st, 2005 at 08:25 PM |
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What happened to the smart arse comments??????
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on July 31st, 2005 at 09:35 PM |
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someone got moderating it seems.
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