| [ Total Views: 1614 | Total Replies: 23 | Thread Id: 44734 ] |
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 subaruboxer
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 05:27 AM |
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Dyno run part 2 (new clutch) beetle/subaru ej 22
Hit the dyno again on friday, had the check engine light on while doing the dyno run. But it still made 140 HP at the wheels. Have to check for fault
code. But it was running so good on the Autobahn, wanted to drive as much as possible. I did 1000 Kilometers in 3 days, but was working on the car a
lot, like getting a few little things out of the way (fuel gauge didn't work for example).
It is so much fun to drive it, it is worth all the work. All those guys in there modern cars can't believe it when they get passed so quick by my old
beetle. I never got the chance to test the top speed, because there was to much traffic, but did 190 kph many times. The acceleration up to 190 kph is
amazing. This is the best car I ever had!!!! It is soooo much fun!!
[ Edited on 12-10-2005 by subaruboxer ]
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subaruboxer
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 05:44 AM |
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A few more pictures for you.
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71superbug
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 06:05 AM |
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good to hear of a successful conversion. and it looks so stock from the outside.
Let us know when you do decide to max it out.
had any contenders for a race yet?
Anthony
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greenjeff
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 06:23 AM |
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Fantastic!
I have been following your build up with great interest, love the look and the set up.
Well done
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koolkarmakombi
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 07:09 AM |
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looks great mate,
Tell us all more about your car, Im really keen to read your story!
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't
quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons,
living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer
upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this
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pete wood
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 04:15 PM |
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man that is such a sleeper 
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1303
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 04:36 PM |
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That looks great...all very neat and tidy
Cheers Paul
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 13th, 2005 at 08:07 PM |
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Nice work.
that is one weird dyno graph though. Why do you add 87kW+18kW to get your total?
Isn't it reading 87kW for you car, which would be 117HP at the rear wheels?
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seagull
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| posted on October 14th, 2005 at 01:03 AM |
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adding in drive train loss ?
I would not think that a ej22 n/a makes more than 90 kw , all the ones I have seen have not .
I am sending my new toy for dyno so I put up what a ej22 quad cam does .I just hope I dont blow the converter off again !
good work mate :beer
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subaruboxer
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 05:32 AM |
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Thanks for the flowers,
the diagram is a bit different that is right. There are two different ways to measure the performance on the dyno here. The more common one is adding
the tire slip into the curve ( a certain percentage), and the dyno I had my beetle on this time, is measuring the real power at the wheels (figure 1)
and measuring the power loss caused by tire slip and adding this amount (figure 2). They say it is more accurate.
I am not to happy with this diagram, not because it might be more accurate, but because it is not that common and therefore more difficult to compare
with other diagrams. This was the only dyno I was able to get a test done at. And I didn't know about the different measuring method.
As my beetle is off the street again (wintertime), and I have some ideas for changes, I will go for a new dyno run in spring next year. I'd like to
have one showing the torque, too. The wavelike curve (figure 3) could be caused by the oxygen sensor. I will change the oxygen sensor and check for a
fault code this weekend.
koolkarmakombi, check this forum for more info of my beetle !
Jörg
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 08:52 AM |
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perhaps some things are being info is being lost in the translation here, but...
If you have 87kW at the wheels, you have 87kW at the wheels. An 87kW car is not powerful enough to get wheel spin on the dyno rollers.
Adding a certain power figure for drivetrain losses is also not correct. The drivetrain does not use a certain amount of power (like
18kW), it uses a certain percentage of power like 17% (a typical figure).
They should have done 87kW / 83% = 104.8kW at the crankshaft. Althought this got to a similar point, the other way you have shown is incorrect. It
only turned out very similar because 17% of 104.8kW is almost 18kW (17.8kW).
So you have 87kW or 117HP at the wheels.
Assuming 17% driveline losses,
you have 105kW or 140HP estimated at the crankshaft. This is what a standard EJ22 produces.
[ Edited on 15-10-2005 by Baja Wes ]
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subaruboxer
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 07:11 PM |
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Hi Baja Wes,
you may be right or not. This is just what they told me at the dyno. I am not an expert for dyno runs. But it is not driveline loss, it is just what
is lost because of the tires.
However I will get it on a different and new age dyno next year. And my engine is bonestock other than the exhaust and the airfilter and no
powersteering pump.
Jörg
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seagull
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| posted on October 17th, 2005 at 12:56 AM |
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Wes , what if the car weight is light ( over the rolers , the car would spin the wheels on the dyno ?
any way after reading Wes reply I needs a :beer
my mind is playing up:duh 
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Baja Wes
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| posted on October 17th, 2005 at 08:24 AM |
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even if it did spin the wheels (which I really doubt as Jak and others have heaps more power and didn't have the problem) the dyno operator wouldn't
have been able to quantify how much power was lost due to wheel spin.
Wheelspin is also easy to spot on a dyno curve.
I think the dyno operator was just calculating the transmission loss and adding it back on to give estimated power at the crankshaft. The way he did
it and probably described it was just confusing.
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VDubya
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| posted on November 4th, 2005 at 02:11 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
even if it did spin the wheels (which I really doubt
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The dyno operator was probably wrong but is anyone else tired of doubting baja thomas being the expert?
Have you ever actually ever operated a dyno or just a read a book or listened to someone talking about it?
I was going to join the Democrats to keep the bastards honest, but joined the forum instead.
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pete wood
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| posted on November 4th, 2005 at 03:34 PM |
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no but we're all tired of your unneeded comments, get the hint...be nice or SHUT UP! :cussing
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bug68
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| posted on November 4th, 2005 at 05:09 PM |
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:thumb |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 6th, 2005 at 12:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VDubya
Have you ever actually ever operated a dyno or just a read a book or listened to someone talking about it?
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Yes actually I have operated dyno's, but none of the newer fancy electronic ones. Only older torque and water brake style units which required more
effort to operate. Even used an optical shaft deflection dyno on a gas turbine.
Please keep this thread on topic, which is Subaruboxer's car.
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seagull
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| posted on November 6th, 2005 at 12:34 AM |
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Is power drop further with an auto box ? Wes
what would you expect from the ej20 quad cam ?
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subaruboxer
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| posted on November 13th, 2005 at 02:19 AM |
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If you have 87kW at the wheels, you have 87kW at the wheels. An 87kW car is not powerful enough to get wheel spin on the dyno rollers.
So you have 87kW or 117HP at the wheels.
Assuming 17% driveline losses,
you have 105kW or 140HP estimated at the crankshaft. This is what a standard EJ22 produces.
Hi Wes,
you were right with that. What the guy told me at the dyno was wrong. Talked to someone knowing all the old and new dyno typs. He said it is 87 kW at
the wheels, or 103 kW at the flywheel.
But it is not bad for an engine with 184 000 km on it, what do you think how much a tuned aircooled engine would produce with that amount of
Kilometers on it.
Jörg
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 13th, 2005 at 12:11 PM |
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Glad you believe me now 
Seagull, typically dyno operators will use 15-17% power loss for manual gearboxes. Of course it's always an estimate as it depends on the gearbox /
diff combination and what condition it's in. The only way to know is to test an engine on an engine dyno, then test it again on a chassis dyno in the
car, and see what the difference is. I haven't done this before myself.
I think raised off-road vw's are worse because running the CV's at an angle losses more efficiency. Unfortunately you have to dyno test an engine,
then put it in a car and test it again to find out what the driveline efficiency really is. I don't know of anyone that has tried that with an
offroad vw.
AWD cars are less efficient than 2wd cars. I have seen 20-25% quoted for cars like WRX's.
Auto's are generally worse again, but it all depends on the auto. Some older auto's lose over 30% of the power through the driveline.
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pete wood
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| posted on November 13th, 2005 at 01:35 PM |
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Course the upside of that powerloss in an auto is the progressive delivery of torque loads onto stress bearing members rather than the extra stress
caused by shock loading.
Saegull was reading about a twin turbo V6 dunnydore in Zoom a while back. The guy lost 25kw at the wheels initially, but was able to wind up the boost
a heap more and launch harder coz of the auto. Also, the C&V boys old impreza AWD drag car used an auto to avoid blowing CVs all the time. Was fastest
in Oz at the time.
But then I spose for other types of racing the auto could be a pain. All swings and roundabouts really I spose in the end though.
Sorry I got off topic there. Subaru Boxer, are there lots of Dynos in Germany? Is it expensive to use one over there? They seem quite exy out here.
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 helbus
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| posted on November 13th, 2005 at 03:13 PM |
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I suppose our bus with EJ22 will produce a very similar dyno sheet. It is just good to have a sheet printed with figures that are far above what a
normal Beetle or Bus would have.
Good luck with it all. Have fun
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subaruboxer
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| posted on November 13th, 2005 at 07:21 PM |
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Hi Pete,
there are quite a few dynos here in Germany, non here in my hometown. The prices for a dyno run range form € 35 to € 80.
Jörg
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