| [ Total Views: 2111 | Total Replies: 24 | Thread Id: 44826 ] |
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 oldschool64bus
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 posted on October 15th, 2005 at 06:23 PM |
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suby swap in a splitty
ok since I am still fairly new to this idea, will I need to fab up some kind of crossmember to help support the weight of the engine or will it just
hang on the trans like a VW engine does?
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subaruboxer
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 06:54 PM |
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For a subaru ej 22 you don't need to install anything, mine is just hanging on the trans like the VW engine. But I installed a cup brace, to support
the trans. But I know a few conversions here in Germany that are driven for years without any support to the engine or trans.
For a ej 20t(turbo) I would recommend a support to the engine and trans.
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oldschool64bus
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 07:34 PM |
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you guys have any suggestions, I want to run an EJ20T. Its gonna be a daily driver and every now an then suprise the ricers  lol also is the cooling setup from custome offroad for sale yet? and
if so will if fit the frame rails of a split?
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humpty
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 07:55 PM |
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Its all been covered in this forum B4....
Yes it will fit....Yes you should add some form of rear mount and yes, the underfloor cooling method will work fine....As long as you don't plan to
hit the dunes anytime soon....The simplest way to make sure the rad conversion will absolutely fit is to measure your chassis rails and compare them
to a Baywindow....As far as I know theyare the same...but best check....It would be fairly ez to fabricate your own set-up.
The only real problem you will have is the turbo to fuel tank issue....2 possible solutions are: 1. move the turbo and fab new intercooler/intake
tracts. 2. move the fuel tank.
The only other thing you have to get around is the intercooling method you use....Air-Water is the best option for you, so this means either source a
RS Liberty/Legacy intercooler and radiator for same or rig an aftermarket Air-Water systems and radiator. Air-air is NOT a good option for you, simply
because there is little in the way of accessible airflow to the intercooler.
Best of luck!
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72RSbug
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 09:07 PM |
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My EJ20 TT wasn't drivable when only hanging from the gearbox, without a crossmember it shook to hard when getting the car moving.
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71EJVan
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| posted on October 15th, 2005 at 11:18 PM |
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Oldschool,
I I'm doing a EJ20T into a 71 Bay. Moving the tank and fabbing up a new crossmember. Look for surf and swoosh project in members rides for some pics
that may help.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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boof2332
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 04:42 AM |
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A splitty ute will be my next ej20t project. You do not have to brace the engine if you dont want to. A cross member supporting the forks is a
must.
Matt
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oldschool64bus
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 07:33 AM |
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sweet thanks guys, like I said I'm still pretty new to this swap idea and lookin for all the heads up and advice I can get.
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humpty
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 10:22 AM |
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So Matt...you reckon a fork brace such ast the KAFER CUP style jobs so popualr in europe are enough?...No axle tramp issues? No fork spread under
load? Any Transaxle mount upgrades? Thats an awful lot of tourque anf weight to have flying around back there.....On both our Subi conversions we had
to run extra mounts at the rear.....But both our cars are factory IRS jobs, hence no frame horns....
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bugat5speed
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 07:48 PM |
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Hi Guys,
we never use an extra engine mount for our conversions for Beetle or T2-bus. We only use them for the T3, cause there is no other option.
We only do our conversions with other gearboxes (Porsche) and with these trannies we install our very solid amulinium cast traverse, that is mounted
under the IRS brackets. By this and by rubber mounts from the Bus instead of the soft ones from the Beetles we never have problems. We already built a
few Super Bugs with EJ20T and 915-gearboxes (upto 280 PS). As we mainly work with Porsche 915 with EJ20T, there is another 15 kg more of weight in the
back. There is no movement of the engine-gearbox-combination with these parts. But on the other hand there are also no vibrations in the chassis as if
you would drive with Polyurethane-blocks.
Have a look on my site there you find the traverse under "Angebot/Porsche-Getriebe/Umbauteile/Traverse".
But we always use cup braces as mentioned above.
Cheers Martin
[ Edited on 16-10-2005 by bugat5speed ]
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 08:01 PM |
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anyone know of the other threads for this....
so, EJ22 Liberty will go on forks as is, but brace recommended.
EJ22 will fit engine bay with tank in same spot, EJ20T won't.
EJ20T is not kind to vack end, EJ22 better.
As a newbie to Subie convertion, but dead keen NOT to put an 1600 in my split....what the verdict on the gearbox.....
1600 Lbug Gearbox plus new clutch and adaptor plate.....okay?
In my case, don't want a turbo. Just a Liberty power, not a racer or rice racer, just want to have long term raliable Subie power (as I've had Subes
as long as I've had VWs, so have a basis to make that statement). I have nothing against 1600 bug motors btw.
The custom offroad site is bay-related. Links to AVD or other split ones appreciated as I start the learning curve....
Loves a lolcat
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humpty
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 08:23 PM |
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CCC...most of what applys to a bay conversion applys to the splitty...
The obvious differences being the suspension....Upgrade to baywindow IRS rear and either bay BJ frontend or upgraded LP frontend. Then you can
consider brake upgrades pefrmance upgrades a you like.
As for the engine choice...Thats up to you....EJ20T will go with work, EJ22/25 will go with less work. Both are good conversions.
As for transaxles....Bus or Bug will go and are farely staright forward....porsche is better, but a LOT more expensive....We have a very modified IRS
TI based box in a TIII (EJ20T powered) and standard T25 094 5speed in the Transporter (EG33 powered)....So far no problems....
One thing I would recommend it the clutch...Go with the best you can afford....We have a very heavy KEP 2300lb 200mm job in the TIII with BERG disc
and a modified 225mm job in the Bus.
Both of these conversions needed extra mounting to the engine and transaxle.
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 08:33 PM |
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thanks for that. I've got the front end and IRS from Indian, so figure I was in a good starting position. Main fear was the need to move the fuel
tank or start cutting out what has just been all put back in...wife will have me strung up if I come home with an EJ22 and it won't fit....lol.
Wanted to go the 1600 Lbug box too.
Not into turbos...leave that fer the young guns....
If this works out then the Bay and T3 will untimately follow....it's all that 'first step' jitters....guess just ahve to go and buy a
motor/loom/computer - get all 3 in the deal ya think????
Thanks Humpty
Loves a lolcat
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humpty
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| posted on October 16th, 2005 at 10:23 PM |
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Absolutely.....Get an entire front cut and make sure you have everything....You must get it all.... sensors, diodes, relays, rectifier, charcoal
canister and all harness'...Everything! A lot of the dash harness is used, all the engine loom is used and some of the engine bay harness is
used....If you decide on the EJ22 or 25, there is plenty of info as what stays in and what comes out of the harness'. While you are there see if you
can get a good external rotary vane fuel pump of a late model EFI engine and all the radiator clamps and fuel line clamps you can. Make sure you get
to see and hear the engine running B4 you pay up...And get a warranty too...Most of the good Jap importers offer them.
One thing to remember....the EJ25 engines are much more sensitive when it comes to sensors, so therefore need to have more developmwnt put into
getting them running...There are plenty of EJ22 and 25 engines in Bus' these days...So plenty of info too.
The LBug box will be ok....But a stock one may not last too long...Just depends on how hard you drive, who built it and what they used
inside....Again...get the best you can afford....I usually get my transaxles built in the US and ship them...It has proved cheaper and I have much
better service....I can order the box on a Saturday morning and have the new box with all the good bits at my door within a couple of weeks...Nobody
here in Oz has been able do that for me....Given that you are on the east coast, you could get better service. But unfortunately I only know one good
HiPo trans builders in Oz... he live in the 'Gong....Shimo is the man...
Just go for the newest engine you can get....get the front cut and ask if the vendor will take the transmission back for a discount in your
purchase....Maybe exchange them for parts for your disc brake upgrade!
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 helbus
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| posted on October 17th, 2005 at 01:02 PM |
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You could always do the T3 or bay first and then with that experience it will get easier.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by crewcabconnection
thanks for that. I've got the front end and IRS from Indian, so figure I was in a good starting position. Main fear was the need to move the fuel
tank or start cutting out what has just been all put back in...wife will have me strung up if I come home with an EJ22 and it won't fit....lol.
Wanted to go the 1600 Lbug box too.
Not into turbos...leave that fer the young guns....
If this works out then the Bay and T3 will untimately follow....it's all that 'first step' jitters....guess just ahve to go and buy a
motor/loom/computer - get all 3 in the deal ya think????
Thanks Humpty
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boof2332
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| posted on October 18th, 2005 at 06:26 AM |
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Humpty,
I have a steel cross brace that is bolted between the rear arches that has a trapeeze type support which supports under the forks at the rear. the
hard mount connects the box at the front. I then have a gearbox strap holding the box to the forks. I will look at supporting the engine also although
at present there is no tramp and with the sway bars and rear suspension it either launches or spins.
Matt
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on October 18th, 2005 at 08:46 PM |
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Spoke to the nice folks at Custom Off Road, so it looks like another Daffy Duck ideas is GO. They tell me the EJ22 will fit with no body mods - esp
the fuel tank. Will have to make engine brace, but have a good friend with some trick bending gear for his wheel clamp business, so should come up
neat.
If it all turns to crap, then it will all be Mr Woods fault, and I'll go back to the 1600 bug motor. Still not found anything on the samba - apart
from yanks freaking out about the idea - or the UK. Surely someone has done it...
The issue of window demister for NSW rego is the concern...or maybe I don't need to as there aint no fan in the first place....had grief with the RTA
before with my 72 Crew - as I got an engineers for the lowering and they moaned about no blown air up the dash - go figure.
All postive advice and comments welcome ... off to the TP to look for a motor... thanks for eveyones comments and advice so far.
Loves a lolcat
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crewcabconnection
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| posted on October 18th, 2005 at 08:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Helbus
You could always do the T3 or bay first and then with that experience it will get easier.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by crewcabconnection
thanks for that. I've got the front end and IRS from Indian, so figure I was in a good starting position. Main fear was the need to move the fuel
tank or start cutting out what has just been all put back in...wife will have me strung up if I come home with an EJ22 and it won't fit....lol.
Wanted to go the 1600 Lbug box too.
Not into turbos...leave that fer the young guns....
If this works out then the Bay and T3 will untimately follow....it's all that 'first step' jitters....guess just ahve to go and buy a
motor/loom/computer - get all 3 in the deal ya think????
Thanks Humpty
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You've not met the wife then?
Loves a lolcat
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oldschool64bus
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| posted on October 19th, 2005 at 08:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by crewcabconnection
Spoke to the nice folks at Custom Off Road, so it looks like another Daffy Duck ideas is GO. They tell me the EJ22 will fit with no body mods - esp
the fuel tank. Will have to make engine brace, but have a good friend with some trick bending gear for his wheel clamp business, so should come up
neat.
If it all turns to crap, then it will all be Mr Woods fault, and I'll go back to the 1600 bug motor. Still not found anything on the samba - apart
from yanks freaking out about the idea - or the UK. Surely someone has done it...
The issue of window demister for NSW rego is the concern...or maybe I don't need to as there aint no fan in the first place....had grief with the RTA
before with my 72 Crew - as I got an engineers for the lowering and they moaned about no blown air up the dash - go figure.
All postive advice and comments welcome ... off to the TP to look for a motor... thanks for eveyones comments and advice so far.
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I think the majority of people on Samba are purist nazi assholes, but anyways so from what I keep seeing on here I will have to move or put a notch in my gas tank to run a turbo? and something about trimming
metal for room? how wide is an EJ20T at the widest part?
[ Edited on 18-10-2005 by oldschool64bus ]
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humpty
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| posted on October 20th, 2005 at 11:53 PM |
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Width is not a problem with TIV powered bus'.....TI powered bus' will need a little trimming on either side of the engine bay, though the chassis
rails should present no problems. The length of the engine will cause some clearance issues at the rear apron area.....Nothing a good 3" angle
grinder and some dressing up can't fit! 
So tell me again why you are looking on the Samba?...Those guys cant help you! The US is a little slow on the uptake when it comes engine upgrades in
TII's! But as for Subi conversions into dubs generally... Oz and Germany seem to be way infront of everybody else... The guys at COR have done a few
conversions into bays....Theres one ova here in WA....A bloke that goes by the tag KombiCol...Some of you might know him? He's from Qld I
believe...
As for general info...look in the archives section in this forum...There's loads of infor there...
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oldschool64bus
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| posted on December 12th, 2005 at 07:00 PM |
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hey guys, havent been on here for a bit, finally got my toyota back on the road so I at least have a daily driver. I have been stuck on the idea of a
suby swap still so I think after the start of the new year I am going to start gethering all the parts and pieces I will need to pull it off I havent
been able to drive my bus since I had to park it back in 1998 :cry its depressing seeing the poor thing just sitting there
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g-raj
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| posted on December 14th, 2005 at 07:40 AM |
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hey old school, i'm just starting on my conversion (ej20 turbo into '74 westy). maybe when yours is done we should race (just kidding). where on
the west coast are you? i'm near seattle, if you're anywhere close i'd be more than happy to give you a hand. (i tried to u2u you, but i don't
yet have enough posts to do so. guess this gets me one post closer ) |
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oldschool64bus
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| posted on December 14th, 2005 at 08:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by g-raj
hey old school, i'm just starting on my conversion (ej20 turbo into '74 westy). maybe when yours is done we should race (just kidding). where on
the west coast are you? i'm near seattle, if you're anywhere close i'd be more than happy to give you a hand. (i tried to u2u you, but i don't
yet have enough posts to do so. guess this gets me one post closer)
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lol well I guess Boise isnt quite west coast but its only 1 state away:P I would really like to go turbo but I think I will stick with NA for now
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boof2332
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| posted on December 15th, 2005 at 06:57 AM |
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Since the start of the thread I have made an engine brace. I have the thick, gold frame horn gearbox mount that has obviously been reversed to move
the box foward. I have bolted a piece of thick cubed steel across the front of the cradle, hard against the bottom edge of the adaptor plate and the
frame bolts. I them got thick right angle steel brackets and bolted them to the motor. Where the faces of the metal meet, I marked and welded.
It makes a big difference on the hard change from second to third.....direct transfer of power to the wheels.
Matt
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pete wood
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| posted on December 15th, 2005 at 06:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by crewcabconnection
If it all turns to crap, then it will all be Mr Woods fault,
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Ah, so I'm taking the fall am I?
Give me a call, we'll go for a spin the buggy and I return you to the faithful fold of subaru converters.
:P:thumb
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