| [ Total Views: 2754 | Total Replies: 34 | Thread Id: 49807 ] |
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 vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
a suffusion of yellow
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 09:34 AM |
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New forum rules. Please vote
Hi there,
Over the last week, there has been some discussion about reviewing and simplifying our existing rules, as certain people seem to have difficulty
complying with the current ones.
Please read this, make suggestions and vote on if you like it or not. If most people like it by April 1, 2006, we will put the final amended version
up for an official vote.
| Quote: |
Thank you for joining Aussieveedubbers. We only have a few rules, so please take the time to read and understand them. If you accept, please click the
"I accept" button below.
Just like any car club, we are a tightly knit community, with many families, young members and dedicated enthusiasts. Please post friendly and
refrain from slagging people off. Enjoy your time here, and don't spoil it for anyone else.
Don't post copyrighted materials or about illegal things, and don't defame anyone.
We have an adults only area for more mature (and often very immature) topics. You can request access to this area if you're interested and are
over 18. Please keep all such topics in that area.
If your posts do not adhere to the spirit of the above three rules, we reserve the right to delete or move them without warning, or ban you if you are
in our opinion a troublemaker. If banned, we will - without any warning - re-ban any new user you manage to create.
If you find any posts which may breach the spirit of these rules, please use the "Report" button found on the top right of the post. We'll act on
these reports as quickly as we can.
The administrators and moderators of the forum can't (and don't) look at every post, so we are not responsible for posts made by our members. If you
do not understand or wish to discuss these rules, please use the "Contact Us" feature.
Please enjoy your stay with us, and post often!
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If you have suggestions for improvements, please post here. Our existing rules will continue to apply until the final vote is undertaken.
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 koolkarmakombi
Veteran Volks Folk
enkarmarising
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 09:51 AM |
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reads well mate
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't
quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons,
living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer
upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this
disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied
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shaihulud
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 09:58 AM |
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That seems OK to me. If asked to, I'll agree to those terms.
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Gibbo
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 10:04 AM |
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Coolio
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Midlife crisis
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 10:33 AM |
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Sounds fair to us.
Marc & Kathy
If you can't laugh at yourself you can't laugh at anyone else! Because life is to short not to LAUGH
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modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 11:40 AM |
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Whilst I would have no problem with accepting the proposed wording, and I fully understand the ongoing frustration caused by moderating a forum like
this, I think this new draft is a retrograde step.
The current rules (with which I also have no problem, and *attempt* to comply) have a number of specific provisions which are missing from the new
draft and the atttempt to simplify the rules seems to have resulted in somewhat vague language which I suspect may lead to more problems than it
solves. Specifically,
- I'm not sure what "post friendly and refrain from slagging people off" means
- equally I'm not sure what "more mature topics" are
- the wording "or about illegal things" is both simulataneously vague and overly-inclusiveness (I can't post about speeding? - probably not what
you intended)
- the current rules specifically prohibit "Nudity, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations.." inter alia. If the intention is to replace
the current "Board Rules" with the draft above, it is only a matter of time before someone claims that any one of these is permitted, by not being
specifically prohibited.
- in attempting to simplify, there are other important provisions in the current rules which appear to be eliminated, such as fencing off the BB
developers and administrators from improper postings by members; as has been shown on other forums, there needs to be adequate protection for those
folk
- numerous other areas where the current Board Rules are clear and the proposed simplification just looks less effective or substitute a feel-good
fuziness for specific provisions
I am not sure what would be gained by watering-down or dumbing-down the rules; those posters who currently disregard the existing rules will no doubt
disregard the new set, but you may inadvertently weaken the admin. and moderators' position by simplification and vagueness. My gut feeling is that
a combination of greater literal consistency of application of the rules and ruthlessness in that application may be needed, but I can't see that the
proposed draft is going to achieve a better outcome than the current clear and more comprehensive rule set.
I've voted "don't like it", but my intent was to question whether it will address the current concerns rather than bag the drafting.
Regards,
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Scarlet
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 12:02 PM |
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I like the simplified idea....even if it makes it a bit subjective...
I think it keeps things friendly and open
thats my fitty sents.... minus the nasty rap lyrics of course
snigger
[size=10]......-----......
....|:kiss |.....
..(o(_|_)o)......
....U......U.......[/size]
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baybuscamperkid
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
prince of insufficient light, ruler of heck
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 03:31 PM |
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i do like the new one for its reader-friendlyness, but after reading modulus' post, maybe it would be necessary/wise to adda "for a more detalied
description of this forums rules" button where those who are interested can investigate the more legally correct version of the rules
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 04:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by modulus
Whilst I would have no problem with accepting the proposed wording, and I fully understand the ongoing frustration caused by moderating a forum like
this, I think this new draft is a retrograde step.
The current rules (with which I also have no problem, and *attempt* to comply) have a number of specific provisions which are missing from the new
draft and the atttempt to simplify the rules seems to have resulted in somewhat vague language which I suspect may lead to more problems than it
solves. Specifically,
- I'm not sure what "post friendly and refrain from slagging people off" means
- equally I'm not sure what "more mature topics" are
- the wording "or about illegal things" is both simulataneously vague and overly-inclusiveness (I can't post about speeding? - probably not what
you intended)
- the current rules specifically prohibit "Nudity, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations.." inter alia. If the intention is to replace
the current "Board Rules" with the draft above, it is only a matter of time before someone claims that any one of these is permitted, by not being
specifically prohibited.
- in attempting to simplify, there are other important provisions in the current rules which appear to be eliminated, such as fencing off the BB
developers and administrators from improper postings by members; as has been shown on other forums, there needs to be adequate protection for those
folk
- numerous other areas where the current Board Rules are clear and the proposed simplification just looks less effective or substitute a feel-good
fuziness for specific provisions
I am not sure what would be gained by watering-down or dumbing-down the rules; those posters who currently disregard the existing rules will no doubt
disregard the new set, but you may inadvertently weaken the admin. and moderators' position by simplification and vagueness. My gut feeling is that
a combination of greater literal consistency of application of the rules and ruthlessness in that application may be needed, but I can't see that the
proposed draft is going to achieve a better outcome than the current clear and more comprehensive rule set.
I've voted "don't like it", but my intent was to question whether it will address the current concerns rather than bag the drafting.
Regards,
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these were my first thoughts exactly, but i have less vocabulary to explain it any better.:P.
i also dont see the reasoning for the change.
the new rules are more basic, agreed. but they also seem to lend themselves to more 'interpretation' depending on how/who it suits.
some how this seems to be going back to the rules prior to the existing. i thought they were changed to make everything more defined.
these are obviously teh general rules, but not relating to specific 'buy/sell' and other topic threads? is that still another section?
Simply Cruzin'...
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DOUBLECAB
A.k.a.: Leo
Banned
Unwanted member
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| posted on March 14th, 2006 at 06:56 PM |
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#! Message No Longer Available !#
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PrettyBlueBug
A.k.a.: P.B.B....
Veteran Volks Folk
Almost over it...
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| posted on March 15th, 2006 at 01:13 PM |
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So we are expected to think of every little thing in order for people to have it in black & white as to what they can/can't do?
There'll always be people who get around that and disrupt things anyway then say " but it doesn't say it in the rules'... I believe in simple
things often being the best, so that's my two cents.
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
a suffusion of yellow
Posts: 3121
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
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Mood: In the family again
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| posted on March 15th, 2006 at 10:31 PM |
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The aims of this rule change are simple: fewer, easier to remember rules makes it easier to comply with them. We're not trying to make this place
into the Fourth Reich, and I know many are sick and tired of the bitching and moaning in Buying and Selling.
I think most of us want a (mostly) family-friendly, easy going atmosphere where people can get to know each other and become friends through a common
passion for VWs, hook up for drives and events, and find a car or a part or two without grief.
Simpler rules should make this a bit easier. But being simpler, they have to be a bit more vague to allow us some leeway when someone comes on only to
shit stir, annoy, spam or defame someone. There's usually only one or two troublemakers spoiling it for the other 4889 of us.
thanks,
Andrew
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62deluxe
Custom Title Time!
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Location: hobart
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| posted on March 17th, 2006 at 01:35 AM |
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I couldn't agree more. What vanderj said is spot on. It should be a place where we can enjoy our common love for VWs. Not a place for for politics
and slatting of other members who do not neccesarily agree with our point of view.
The simpified rules make alot of sense- but I do think that we need something more comprehensive to cover our butts at certain times.....
Just my 2 cents.
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Schmoburger
A.k.a.: Kieran "Schmeaux" Boundy Stock-Nazi, Kombi Konquistador
Veteran Volks Folk
Baywindow Mafia Godfather and Cement-Shoe Fitter
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| posted on March 17th, 2006 at 01:50 AM |
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I'd be another on the "agree with Modulus" gravy train... it is the flawed people who ignore the current rules that are the nut of the problem,
nothing to do with having flawed rules... anyone who understands basic English should be able to comprehend their meaning and live by them. It's like
moving to a foreign country... one chooses to live there, then one is automatically electing to live by that countries federal laws...and if one
flaunt the rules, one ends up facing a firing squad...plain and simple.. Same principle applies to a forum.
As has been said already, by simplifying the rules, you immediately give a big stick to the few trolls on here, who say "OOOHOHO BUT IIIII TAKE THIS
TO MEAN [insert bullshit here]!... you didnt say I cant blah blah blah bullshit bullshit in the rules so you suck!"
In short... leave em as they are... if the other 98% of decent members on here can comprehend and adhere to the regs, then why should administration
be bending to the few scumbags or pains in the ass who cant get it right?...if they break a specific rule continually, why not just boot there sorry
ass for good, instead of trying to pussyfoot around them.... obviously they disagree with the rules that were set out before they signed up, so they
have no place here.
if it aint broke... why bloody fix it?
Just my 10 bob worth...
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[url=www.baywindowmafia.tk][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/c
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
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Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
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| posted on March 17th, 2006 at 06:27 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Schmoburger
I'd be another on the "agree with Modulus" gravy train... it is the flawed people who ignore the current rules that are the nut of the problem,
nothing to do with having flawed rules... anyone who understands basic English should be able to comprehend their meaning and live by them. It's like
moving to a foreign country... one chooses to live there, then one is automatically electing to live by that countries federal laws...and if one
flaunt the rules, one ends up facing a firing squad...plain and simple.. Same principle applies to a forum.
As has been said already, by simplifying the rules, you immediately give a big stick to the few trolls on here, who say "OOOHOHO BUT IIIII TAKE THIS
TO MEAN [insert bullshit here]!... you didnt say I cant blah blah blah bullshit bullshit in the rules so you suck!"
In short... leave em as they are... if the other 98% of decent members on here can comprehend and adhere to the regs, then why should administration
be bending to the few scumbags or pains in the ass who cant get it right?...if they break a specific rule continually, why not just boot there sorry
ass for good, instead of trying to pussyfoot around them.... obviously they disagree with the rules that were set out before they signed up, so they
have no place here.
if it aint broke... why bloody fix it?
Just my 10 bob worth...
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yeah but i wonder if making them simplier makes them more bendable by both sides.
it seems andrew that some mods have a hard time with teh rules also.
Simply Cruzin'...
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Schmoburger
A.k.a.: Kieran "Schmeaux" Boundy Stock-Nazi, Kombi Konquistador
Veteran Volks Folk
Baywindow Mafia Godfather and Cement-Shoe Fitter
Posts: 2185
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Mood: Over the moon... having difficulty breathing up here! :duh
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| posted on March 17th, 2006 at 10:17 AM |
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Good point... I agree with that also.
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[url=www.baywindowmafia.tk][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/c
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h
A.k.a.: Towely BuMpEr KING! ILLegal ALIEN on a roadtrip
Scirocco Rare
fractals - an ever changing lifestyle
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Mood: A T3 is not a Kombi - stop waving at me
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| posted on March 18th, 2006 at 12:24 AM |
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hey.. look i liked the 'dumb it down' version, its fairly straight forward and even a 'less than fortunate' could figure it out and not get
bogged down in the reading of it..
although it may be constude as 'politically correct' and 'open to interpretation' its still fairly nice and basic..
my 2 bob anyways,
i gave it a tick.. cheers
[ Edited on 17-3-2006 by h ]
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DOUBLECAB
A.k.a.: Leo
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| posted on March 18th, 2006 at 12:52 AM |
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#! Message No Longer Available !#
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buzzbox
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on March 18th, 2006 at 07:11 PM |
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A vote for.
I doubt that I personally will have any difficulty complying with these rules..as there is always BA.
However, simple rules will always be open for broad interpretation.
So I like the idea of keeping the old ones as a more defined subset of rules to fall back on if 'hair splitting' must come into play, after all they
have evolved out of experience.
Just look at how many bookshelves a lawyer needs.
bog'n'grumble
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Volkswagenboy
A.k.a.: Brenton Barry
Veteran Volks Folk
Staggers Automotive.
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| posted on March 18th, 2006 at 07:18 PM |
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Adults Only Area? Huh?
-Staggers.
STAGGERS AUTOMOTIVE - Heavy Vehicle Diesel Specialist
JB CUSTOMS & CLASSICS - Car Builders
2/53 Tradelink Drive, Browns Plains |
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
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Location: city, sydney.
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
Mood: simply cruizin'
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| posted on March 20th, 2006 at 08:50 PM |
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understanding the need for simplier rules... when even the best of them can not abide by the exisiting! :duh
Simply Cruzin'...
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helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
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| posted on March 20th, 2006 at 09:39 PM |
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I agree with the simpler rules. The most important thing to remember is that at the end of the day the forum is made of the people that frequent
it.
I hear the bit about simpler rules make it easier for them to be swayed by members and/ or mods. There is a pretty democratic process in what the mods
do when it comes to mod's functions and processes on this forum. Remember there is a "Report" button in the top right hand corner of every post. It
is the members that are bringing certain things to our attention and that is what we act on. So in actual fact it is more so the members running the
forum. Mods and admin only operate on what the majority of members want/need.
Positive posts help the forum grow. Negative comments are certainly not favourable. The concensus based on what gets reported proves this.
In my own opinion, I suggest everyone makes their next twenty posts as positive as possible and those that do will see the difference in forum
atmosphere and will continue to do so. Even if you are already doing it, go even further with the feeling good posts.
Ohmmmmmmmmmm. I must have my Chai tea now.
Hippy in a Helbus 
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
a suffusion of yellow
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| posted on March 20th, 2006 at 10:39 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Volkswagenboy1
Adults Only Area? Huh?
-Staggers.
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Yep. It's called Bad Attitude, and it's at the bottom of the forum listings. If you want the password, U2U me or any of the mods and tell us
(honestly) that you're over 18.
Andrew
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Stealth
Custom Title Time!
Ich Leibe mein Kastenwagen!
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| posted on March 24th, 2006 at 10:19 AM |
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Let's go Andrew, make the rules active. Then we can start to rid the forum of the shit on ths forum and make this forum back to talking about VW's,
not non related crap that is taking up valuble band width.
Clean up time.
STEALTH |
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Spook
Custom Title Time!
Driving the 64 wheeler
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| posted on March 25th, 2006 at 06:40 PM |
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A while back we thrashed out a set of rules, each member put in a bit & I even recall giving you the proverbial pat on the back for the final draft
Andrew.
Then the rules got bent slightly to create "bad attitude"
From memory the excuse was"people sailing to close to the rules". I still don't agree with that decision & don't go near it on principle.
Now this. A complete backflip.
And the reason; "......as certain people seem to have difficulty complying with current ones"
Under the current ones - the ones newbies agreed to before they wrote their first post -the ones existing members agreed to before they wrote their
next post- shouldn't they be banned??
So now we are going change the rules to acommodate "certain people".
This is cowardice at best, corruption at worst.
So I'll ask a direct question; Who are you afraid to ban or which of your friends don't you want to ban??
Then there's this gem:
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vanderaj
Simpler rules should make this a bit easier. But being simpler, they have to be a bit more vague to allow us some leeway when someone comes on only to
shit stir, annoy, spam or defame someone. There's usually only one or two troublemakers spoiling it for the other 4889 of us.
thanks,
Andrew
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That's a contradiction in terms Andrew.
You can't have vague rules. The english language doesn't allow it.
You can have guidelines or you can have rules. A guidline is exactly that, but a rule, by definition is set terms.
Of couse the other bit- is it 'certain people' or 'one or two trouble makers' ? And the question still remains why haven't either or both groups
been banned?
But I must say, what pisses me off the most is the arguement that you, yourself, put up about needing rules. Then the ensuing debate about how the
rules should be set out (6 pages from memory).
Now, because it no longer suits you, your gunna go F#CK IT.
I've said it before Andrew; you don't do anything to change my opinion.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
Posts: 4275
Threads: 226
Registered: November 7th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: city, sydney.
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
Mood: simply cruizin'
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| posted on March 25th, 2006 at 06:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Spook
A while back we thrashed out a set of rules, each member put in a bit & I even recall giving you the proverbial pat on the back for the final draft
Andrew.
Then the rules got bent slightly to create "bad attitude"
From memory the excuse was"people sailing to close to the rules". I still don't agree with that decision & don't go near it on principle.
Now this. A complete backflip.
And the reason; "......as certain people seem to have difficulty complying with current ones"
Under the current ones - the ones newbies agreed to before they wrote their first post -the ones existing members agreed to before they wrote their
next post- shouldn't they be banned??
So now we are going change the rules to acommodate "certain people".
This is cowardice at best, corruption at worst.
So I'll ask a direct question; Who are you afraid to ban or which of your friends don't you want to ban??
Then there's this gem:
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vanderaj
Simpler rules should make this a bit easier. But being simpler, they have to be a bit more vague to allow us some leeway when someone comes on only to
shit stir, annoy, spam or defame someone. There's usually only one or two troublemakers spoiling it for the other 4889 of us.
thanks,
Andrew
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That's a contradiction in terms Andrew.
You can't have vague rules. The english language doesn't allow it.
You can have guidelines or you can have rules. A guidline is exactly that, but a rule, by definition is set terms.
Of couse the other bit- is it 'certain people' or 'one or two trouble makers' ? And the question still remains why haven't either or both groups
been banned?
But I must say, what pisses me off the most is the arguement that you, yourself, put up about needing rules. Then the ensuing debate about how the
rules should be set out (6 pages from memory).
Now, because it no longer suits you, your gunna go F#CK IT.
I've said it before Andrew; you don't do anything to change my opinion.
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i feel good, taht i am not the only person seeing the double standards that do exist.
thanks spook.
Simply Cruzin'...
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Spook
Custom Title Time!
Driving the 64 wheeler
Posts: 1168
Threads: 83
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Central Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: ALWAYS DARK
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| posted on March 25th, 2006 at 07:21 PM |
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Bad attitude was double standards, this is something different.
But it makes the entire debate we had the first time a joke.
How can the administrator justify making his own arguements null & void??
[ Edited on 25-3-2006 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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lobus
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 618
Threads: 93
Registered: December 14th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on March 25th, 2006 at 08:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Spook
Bad attitude was double standards, this is something different.
But it makes the entire debate we had the first time a joke.
How can the administrator justify making his own arguements null & void??
[ Edited on 25-3-2006 by Spook ]
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because he has his hand on the button that switches the whole shebang off.
"certain people" and "one or two individuals" is just ambiguous double speak.
name names or ban names I reckon, but then "certain people " wou;d miss out on all the fun of playing super duper power bullshit games
.
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
Custom Title Time!
Minister of Volkswagenism
Posts: 1922
Threads: 238
Registered: September 1st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Toronto - Westlakes NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Enlightened.
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| posted on March 26th, 2006 at 09:48 AM |
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...and around it goes. 
Hi everyone.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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bugbrained
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 368
Threads: 36
Registered: April 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: givin up cigs
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| posted on April 25th, 2006 at 08:09 AM |
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wow im only new to AVD and i think i might have broken the rules allready ,i posted on general chit chat ( guy wants to go to valla ) now am i just
getting paranoid should i have posted that in the adult section even though it was only meant to be a light hearted dig at how hard it is being a guy
and getting places . does that mean i might be voted off of AVD or am i just a paranoid new member . so far ive enjoyed my experience on here and look
forward in reading other people points of views ( we are all different ) and dont allways aggree with other peoples views . i hope i havnt broken the
rules and i do aggree there is a standard we should all try and stick to . now ive got that off my chest i just want to say id still love to go to
valla and i hope i havnt offended anyone in any way shape or form .
regards bugbrained ( am i just being paranoid now let me know )
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