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posted on July 28th, 2006 at 03:58 PM
Building a baja need help
hi everyone. I am very new at this but i was hoping to get some help. I love the idea of a baja but i know nothing about car or anything. all i know
is that i love the idea of a cheetah kit (but i don't know where to go to get one) and slowly work my way around to build a baja. What beetle model
would be best to start of with? i heard superbugs were a big nono! please help! thanks
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posted on July 28th, 2006 at 06:41 PM
Search this forum for baja, and be prepared to spend a lot of time reading!
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posted on July 28th, 2006 at 07:51 PM
K, will give a basic rundown Lol, alot of people told me alot of things about em cause i'm a noob too, so its only fair i do the same and explain for
ya! :P
What beetle model to use:
Everything pre 70s will work out great, cause it all involves torsion bar, and NO STRUTS!. HOWEVER, make sure that later models DO NOT have Mcpherson
strut suspension (that is found on the super bugs). The rest have torsion bar suspension, which not only makes the wheel go up and down, but also
around, which inturn makes the 'shock' of a bump less painful on the car. Struts however, only go up and down, not backwards and get a far extra
pounding from offroad bumps. Not only does this kill the struts, they are also expensive to replace.
For all other bugs, look for torsion bar suspension, preferably IRS rather than swing axel in the rear (IRS may have more bits to go wrong, but allows
for better control and vehicle stability as it doesn't have as much camber play as say a swing axel.
Now there is quiet long debates about the front end of a bug (suspension). Without having struts, ur looking at either a King and Link front beam
suspension, or Ball joint. King and link is said to have more suspension travel, but apparently they can screw up more often or something... Big
debate, that pretty much ends in a way where each type, whether it be k&L or BJ, they both do the job to an appropriate standard, and both are used by
pros.
Most bug models have all drum brakes on EVERY wheel, cept some of the 1500 series bugs (from like late 67/68 to 71 or something) have disks on the
front beam (if semi auto, which also had IRS, while all other 1500 series bugs, (NON SEMI AUTO) had swingaxel). 71' and later had disk brakes on
front too, and IRS! (drums still on rear, but that is when McPherson strut came out too) Apparently in 1974 i think it was, or was it 76? THe bugs
went back to Ball joint torsion bar front beams, and had the IRS suspension, and disk brake front end. They are the BEST pans to use, cause otherwise
the mods u look at doing to make it have those features cost more than a 74/76 bug itself....
1500 series bugs are said to be the strongest outta the lot (And still common compared to say the 74or76 or wateva it was.. as u can see from this,
the main reason of choice lies in the suspension type more than anything. Its one of those very important choices for offroad that can be very
beneficial, if ur suspension choices a re selected correctly. ANY suspension setup will do u alright with no trubs, AS LONG as its not MCPHERSON
STRUT!
HOWEVER! do be aware, that if u get a 70s or earlier bug for bajaing' its going to be easier for you to do mods on it (cause it is said to be
PRE-ADRS [Australian design rules]. which are just a set of engineering and vehicle standards that make it harder to register and comply/certify a
vehicle)
Where to get Cheetah Kits:
http://www.customoffroad.com.au has them... although their price has
hiked by like $200 over the last 12 months... other than that.. there is:
Other than that, U CAN! get a VERY good condition 2nd hand kit from $150 to $500... just depends how lucky u are in regards to getting a good price,
BUT THERE ARE a heap out there just lying around. Even if it ain't in perfect nick, its fibre glass, spend a few days glassing/sanding etc, good as
new.
Just go into the Want To Buy Parts section in this forum, and put up a thread, saying u want to buy a cheetah baja kit (Specify that it is also a wide
eyed baja kit in ur title too!)
Other Considerations:
Other considerations in regards to beetle models include that the 1500 series and later have collapsible steering wheel columns, a 1.5 ltr engine and
are 12 volt. Earlier model bugs (67' and earlier) have 1300, and 1200 ltr engines and if stock, are 6 Volt rather than 12volt. + purists and can rank
if its a pre-60s bug getting bajaed Lol. The super bugs have 1.6ltr engines that can be engine swapped with say the 1500 series (1.5 ltr), just
unbolt, and rebolt the other one in, they are interchangable. however, putting a 1.6ltr into a 67' and earlier is a little more work, as the bell
housing in the gearbox WONT fit the 12v flywheel, so u will have to ground out the bell housing, or swap flywheels over.
Now... please everyone, if there is something wrong, please tell me, i dont' wanna give wrong info away, but I hope this does help.
I been doing aaalllloooottt of research over the past 12 months on this, my project is out the back yard, lol.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 29th, 2006 at 12:06 PM
Thanks for the tip! So fom my understanding i'll be better off getting a 1500 model... so let's go car hunting!!! this is exciting
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posted on July 29th, 2006 at 12:37 PM
I was just wondering... anyone in melbourne area? it's been hard for me to find anything about bajas here in melb i'd just liek to see one
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posted on July 29th, 2006 at 05:30 PM
good move, 1500s have a good rep. Just remember the manual transmission ones have swing axel and ball joint, + all drums, but the semi auto 1500 has
IRS, balljoint and disk brake front end...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 29th, 2006 at 06:49 PM
Looking for another convert to the Semi Auto Baja side, eh Chris
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 05:36 PM
have a look here and be prepared for a great read ,this is the best place ive found if i need anything {offroadvw.net-baja wes }
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 06:49 PM
That's mad thanks peeps. altough i still find it hard to get anything within vic. seemes like it's a NSW or QLD thing. nOh and also i was told by
some other guy that semi auto is not the best for bajas? i'm getting confused. ist it more a preferance thing or a technical. (for me preferably i
like to drive manuals but if the build is different i guess i can go semi)
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 09:43 PM
semi auto gearboxes arent good for bajas no.
but if u can get a semi auto and convert it to manual transmission.
this gives you a balljoint front IRS rear bug which is perfect for a baja.
semi autos had IRS this is the good thing about them. just need to weld in a clutch tube and change gearbox.
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1974 Chevrolet Luv
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 09:49 PM
Yup, semi auto pan with manual conversion gets u the best deal... well i only eva heard this from people who have heard from other people... i don't
know anyone who has had a semi auto baja directly... so gonna give it a go and see how she runs, not simply outta that mystery, but outta financial
reasons Lol. In theory, they aren't special (semi autos) cause they have exactly the same gears as a manual EXCEPT 1st gear, Cause it starts on 2nd.
But... in theory yet again, the torque convertor brings about more 'torque' by being able to spin faster than the gear box easily cause of the
science behind the torque convertor and vacuum/pressure created by the atf fluid. (cause engine isn't directly moving any cogs etc. in the gearbox).
So am gonna find out and be the MYTH buster so to speak
I got a workshop manual that describes overhaulling a gearbox... if the semi auto proves a pain, am gonna play with the gear ratios i rekon Next biggest thing after getting the 'thing' on the road. If i take out
the semi auto to do that, either way, if i screw it by not overhauling correctly, i go manual, if not, i put it back in with different gears.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 10:20 PM
So in other words Chris will be looking for a manual gearbox.
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 10:28 PM
trust me, its tempting... stupid atf plumbin...
Plenty extra stuff u gotta muck around with when it comes to a semi auto, but so far, the concept is kool. mention semi auto to any common bommodore
luving thug, and they scatch there head in interest and a slight display of wtf. This what i luv bout it!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 10:29 PM
Quote:
Apparently in 1974 i think it was, or was it 76? THe bugs went back to Ball joint torsion bar front beams, and had the IRS suspension, and disk brake
front end. They are the BEST pans to use.
Definately NOT the best. (Think ADR's people)
-Staggers.
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1968 Porsche 912 SWB: "Pip"
1972 Kombi Snail: "The Snail"
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posted on July 30th, 2006 at 10:59 PM
well, a semi auto is just like a manual style transmission, just without the clutch pedal and clutch slipping. (if the clutch in the semi auto is
slipping, would be VERY worried!, cause would needadjustment..)
But its just a matter of adjusting the gearing inside to make it appropriate for offroad use, if it really is a problem. but i would really like to
get an opinion from a semi auto baja owner, cause its all word of mouth and a myth really, and i'm sure they are right, but the concept of the torque
convertor brings around some doubt in my mind that it should be Alright to some degree. Only 1 way to find out!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 08:21 AM
maybe i should just wait untuil the myth is resolved Let me know heheh not that i don't wan to do the work myself but being new at this seems too
chalanging for me
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 08:22 AM
I guess the next step is "what's legal and what's not!" Again i'm getting different answers. do you guys think it's different from states to
states?
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:12 AM
Some states can interpret and be more restrictive towards the rules etc.
Yeah, can wait till i solve the mystery, lol. might be a while, but the IRS, balljoint and disk brake front ends of the semi auto pan make it Great
for offroading, cheaper to have it that way then pay for mods to make a k&l swinger pan equivalent.
The next step IS to look into that. Yet again, it can be a case of 'word of mouth' and more a chinese whispers as to wats legal or not. But best bet
is to start a thread in this forum about what legal questions u want to ask, and the majorities opinion would 99% of the time be correct.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:19 AM
When it comes to legalities, in regards to baja kits, its just a matter of getting a blue plate for your kit conversion u put on the body. Simply just
a matter of seeing an engineer.
My recommendation would be Stephen Blackburn, he professionalises in automotive trade training and assessment, buyers vehicle inspections, BUT MOST
IMPORTANTLY Modification blue plates.
+ HE OWNS A VOLKSWAGEN AND IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THEM. Going to an engineer with no past experience in dubs is a BIG risk, i personally rekon.
his mob: 0413 005 387, Office: (07) 3848 4225, or better off, email him at: steveblackburn@bigpond.com, and request some information to either be
emailed or posted out perhaps, or just ask in an email ur interested in doing a baja, what kinda legalities you would be looking at. hes a pro, and
will be giving you DIRECT advice from the rule books.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:30 AM
I think a semi-auto will cook the transmission fluid offroad.
You will likely have the problem that the torque converter tries to fully engage the motor at a low rpm, and at this low rpm the engine won't have
the power to push the car up the hill.
This will be worse on a baja than a standard semi-auto beetle for two reasons. 1- a standard beetle rarely has to drive up, or start off on 30-35
degree hills, and 2 - a baja version has bigger tyres that makes the gearing even higher than it already is.
To get around the problem you'd need a more powerful motor, and to modify the torque converter for a higher "stall" rpm. Both of these mods make
the semi-auto user-unfriendly. Even mild engine mods can change the engine vacuum behaviour enough to change how the vacuum operated clutch behaves.
A guy in the manxclub had a buggy with a type auto (full auto) and a clapped out vw engine. With the tall tyres it didn't have the power to reverse
in sand. The torque converter was trying to full engage the engine at a low rpm, where it had no power. I think he had the engine rebuilt and now it
can reverse ok, but it's a sign of the problems you'd have with the very tall gearing of the semi-auto.
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:32 AM
hmm.... i'm gonna be F*^ked offroad, HAHA
hopefully wes will be there to drag my sorry ass outta the sand HAHA!
was thinking for a sec that the pressure of the atf fluid in the torque convertor would be pretty high, and things may need to be 'boosted' up a
bit, especially with a slow moving car and a fast turning engine...
[ Edited on 30/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by bajachris88
When it comes to legalities, in regards to baja kits, its just a matter of getting a blue plate for your kit conversion u put on the body. Simply just
a matter of seeing an engineer.
Unfortunately that info is incorrect. Only QLD has blue plates as such.
But even in QLD a Baja Conversion can not be approved with a blue plate, this is because there is no modification code for a Baja Conversion. Blue
plates are only used for modifications under a certain code (LA - engine, LB - transmission etc).
In QLD you actually have to take the car to a QLD transport inspection station, they inspect the car and give you a stamped certificate. Technically
you are supposed to fill out a modification approval form before starting the modifications.
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:37 AM
is there any major issues we should watch out for when we have the baja kit fitted? Any major worries that we should make sure are corrected when we
fit the kit?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 09:57 AM
one of my friends had his done a few years ago, and when he applied to have it done they sent him a check list of things they want to see.
Most of these are for safety and to meet ADR's.
They want big washers used on the bolts holding the guards on, they like it if they have rubber behind the washer too but I don't think it's a must
have.
They want rear mud flaps, full width engine cage and full width front bumper. If made from pipe, the pipe must be capped (no sharp edges).
Cage needs mesh to keep unwanted hands from contacting the hot exhaust or sticking fingers in pulleys.
All common sense kinda stuff.
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 10:00 AM
can u get away without having a bumper bar?
The nude end of the bug eyed is nice, although not necessarily practical.
By the way, thanx for this info ur sharing, i neva thought about having washers, smart move to prevent cracking though in the guards
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 10:01 AM
no u cant
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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posted on July 31st, 2006 at 10:03 AM
bummer , ah well. i got the front bar anyways...
would rather be hind by a fibreglass nose than a steel bull bar. but on the bright side, will keep the fibreglass and Roos apart.
cheers nick
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
posted on July 28th, 2006 at 03:58 PM
Next biggest thing after getting the 'thing' on the road. If i take out
the semi auto to do that, either way, if i screw it by not overhauling correctly, i go manual, if not, i put it back in with different gears.
, ah well. i got the front bar anyways...