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 hugofirst
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 posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 10:48 AM |
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EJ20T into Porsche 911 Conversion (Cooling / Sump / Clearance)
Hey all,
Im new to the forum and am looking at doing an EJ20T conversion into an older Porsche 911 (GASP!!!!) Don't hate me cos its a Porsche! I've found
the VW guys are Heaps more willing to help out than other Porsche buffs (who just look down their nose at you!)
My first question is about cooling - What do you guys with EJ20's do with cooling in a Beetle??? Do you mount the radiator up front somehow?? or
squeeze it in the rear end?? or what!?? (Photos would be GREAT!!!)
I think being a Porsche, theirs a fair bit more room up front behind the front bumper, and would make the engine bay a heap neater... So I'd prefer
to mount it up front if possible...
Second question: Do you have to modify the oil sump to get more ground clearance???
Third question: Does the intake or Turbo foul on the firewall?? Is their much cutting & deforming of the firewall to get everything to fit????
Lastly, do you guys know if anyone here in Oz have actually done this conversion in a 911??
Thanks heaps.. I've already learnt heaps from flicking through this forum! keep it up! :thumb
[ Edited on 23-8-2006 by Baja Wes ]
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pete wood
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 11:24 AM |
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if you sell the porsche, buy an Lbug and convert it instead you could save yourself a lot of money. Cheaper, lighter, faster.
And yes, you will ruin any resale money on the porsche if you convert it to watercooled over here. In America people do it all the time. But I
wouldn't do it in Australia. Is the motor dead or are you just bored?
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 11:38 AM |
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I've Always wanted a 911... But after driving the 2.7L & 3.0L's id be better off sticking to my E220 Merc!!! (pretty sluggish!).
I've got my eye on two 911's.. One has a blown motor.. (1974) and one is a rolling shell...
I figure I can build a complete 911 with EJ20T for under 30k... So why not! Have the look & the power.. And its something different in Oz..
I've heard of people doing it in the states, but can't really find much about them.. Theirs a forum: http://www.porscharu.com but no one ever goes on there.. I've asked heaps of questions and had no replys, so thats why
im here.. Do you know of any sites to a EJ20 converted 911??
Im not too worried about resale value.. I want to build a car how I want it.. Not settle on a stock 911 and leave it cos I might lose a few $$$$
when I sell it a few years down the track,,
So yeah.. Any help would be great guys!
Thanks!
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pete wood
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:24 PM |
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I have only seen one porsche with a subaru and it wasn't an EJ20t. It was an EJ22. Looked like a bit of a hatchet job too. All the other I have seen
have been v8s and rotaries. Which looked awful and must have handled even worse.
Again, can I suggest converting a bug instead of the porsche, it will be cheaper lighter and faster, and you will get a better return for your money.
You say you don't care about resale now, but you will when your girlfriend/wife/mortgage forces you to sell it. The only reason I'd buy a dead
porsche would be to put a 2nd hand motor in cheap and make some money off it.
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:38 PM |
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The EJ22 you saw – was it in Australia or???
Thought about a Rotary, but too many headaches.. V8’s way to heavy & big.. EJ20T would be perfect…
And nah, you couldn’t talk me into a bug instead.. You have to look at it this way: Im thinking of putting an EJ20 into a 911 because I love the
look of a 911 and the original 911 motor is underpowered.. IF however, I was getting something for a cheap light fast run-about, and wanted a doner
car to drop an EJ series motor into – then I would consider a bug.. But yeah, Not going to happen.. I want the 911, and want something a bit more
powerful to get it going..
Resale? If I can build it for under 30k.. and only get 15k back in 3-4 years.. Im happy.. No wife or girlfriend at the moment, which is why im
doing this NOW and not waiting for someone to tell me NO! haha..
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:41 PM |
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Don't listen to Pete, attack the Porsche!
I was just telling Brad the other night to buy a cheap rolling shell porsche and turn it into an EJ20T powered Baja Porsche!
If I had some spare money I would build one.
So what model Porsche exactly?
The problems with the porsche is even less room at the front for the radiator. Do some searches and general looking through this area of the forum and
you will see what Jak and others have done.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:46 PM |
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oh, and there are various shortened sumps on the market. I only have this link handy, but again search this area of the forum.
http://www.customoffroad.com.au/vw/partFull.asp?partid=30
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:46 PM |
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Thanks mate! Yeah, Im doing plenty of searches... finding bits and pieces all over the place..
I've got two 911's im considering... Ones a '74' and ones a '79'. the 74 has a blown motor (not sure what box is in it) and the 79's just a
rolling shell.
I plan on using a 915 5-speed box... and going a front mount radiator...
Haven't actually seen any photos of front mounted radiators in any 911's or bugs yet... But im guessing it can't be too much of a drama..
I am a bit worried about ground clearance though...
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 12:50 PM |
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Thanks for the link! (missed it while I was replying above..)
Will check it out!
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 01:04 PM |
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you might also want to contact speedster356 (Peter) from this forum. He has a porsche spyder replica with a EJ20T in it. It has hardly any frontal
area.
There are heaps of pics on his website, but most are BMP files so you need broadband to load the damn thing.
http://www.petermcleod.com/petesrides.html
I think he has the radiator in the middle of the car like me, so as to not effect the appearance.
As you can see from the pics below, his engine is mid mounted. He has the radiator right in front of the engine, just behind the cabin / seats. It
gets air from under the car.
I have my radiator above my gearbox. This required a fair bit of cutting of the rear firewall. It also gets air from under the car.
[ Edited on 23-8-2006 by Baja Wes ]
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pete wood
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 01:42 PM |
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Will a 915 gearbox handle a muscly EJ20t? I heard they wearn't that strong.
Look, do whatever you want. Just don't say I told ya so. 
Wes, A baja porsche is something I could handle. At least your changing things for a good reason. Like the Brooky Parts Plus offroad car. It has an
LT1 chevy in the boot. 
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 02:37 PM |
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Thanks for the photos.. Ill have a look when I get home..
Im curious as to what box he uses.. (probably also listed on the website & ill see it when I have a closer look)...
Yeah, im told the 915 boxes handle up to 300HP, but the Porsche's have a totally different powercurve to that of a WRX.. Could get interesting??
Not sure if im better off beefing up the internals or going for something like a 4 speed G50???
I'll have to wait and see with the cooling... I've seen some rearmount setups, but I think ill wait till I get a really good look behind the front
bar to see if a custom one would fit in there..
How is general cooling on the EJ20t's???? In a stock WRX etc.
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 03:50 PM |
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Have you considered two small radiators in the front, a la 996 Porsche ?
I say go for it, you could build a mental EJ20T for the price of a std rebuilt 2.7 or 3.0 porsche motor. Its also a newer engine, with better smog
gear, fuel economy, etc etc etc.
I say f&*k the purists and go for it.
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bus914
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 03:57 PM |
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boof2332 has one in a 914 i think.
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 04:05 PM |
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Haha Thanks man! Yeah, Im planning on going ahead with it.. Just trying to get a bit better understanding of it before committing to it..
I've been quoted arounf $15k drive in drive out.. So Worst case thats what itll cost me.. Im just sussing everything out to see if Im able to do
most of the work myself and save myself a heap of $$$$$...
Thanks for the twin 996 setup idea.. Will have to look into it further!
:thumb
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ricola
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 05:11 PM |
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Sounds like a good idea to me if you are starting off with a project, although I couldn't cut one up for it! Definitely go with a front mount
radiator but I guess you may get away wihta rear mount intercooler if you stuck it in the wing like the Porsches do but more work for a custom
job..
Check out the engine conversion forum on pelicanparts, there are a couple of converted 912s on there.
Rich
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speedster356
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 05:16 PM |
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Re: speedster356 Spyder install.
I now run the radiator in the front and my intercooler in front of the engine picking up air from under the car(midmounted engine). I always had
overheating problems with the radiator mounted in the rear. My radiator is an alloy aftermarket Nissan 200 unit.
cheers
[ Edited on 23-8-2006 by speedster356 ]
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 07:15 PM |
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go for it! Top idea. If the EJ20 has less torque than a 911, you might be safe with the gearbox. Don't buy a rolling shell - will cost you $10K in
bits to fix up
I remember a 13B powered 912/911 in Fast Fours about 15 years ago - I'l pull it out for radiator position advice etc. Spare wheel well should be
fine!
Gimme a few days...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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subaruboxer
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 04:56 AM |
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Hi hugofirst,
I thought about it, too. It is a good way to drive a fast old Porsche !!
Here is a Porsche with Subaru engine:
http://de.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geumYInexEaWYByrozCQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTE4bTZodmE0BG...
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 08:19 AM |
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That'd be great VWCOOL... Would be VERY handy!
And yeah, seen that other 911 with subaru motor.. very tidy install.. except for the cooling.. 
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pete wood
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 08:40 AM |
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surely a 2.7 or 3.0l makes more power than an EJ25? THe 3l is 200+hp and the EJ25 is only 170 at best.
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 12:16 PM |
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Just another thought.. If things are a bit touch-n-go with the strength of the 915 gearbox... Would you advise against going for say a 10" wheel
on the rears?? (think widebody)...
???????????
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 01:10 PM |
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widebody... :puke
Get some specs of the original 911 engine's torque outout and compare it to the Subie's max
shock loading and stress from torque - not power - is what destroys boxes
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 01:45 PM |
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The answer to gearbox life is as mentioned above - shock loading - and what keeps them alive is MECHANICAL SYMPATHY.
There are people on this forum who run stock single side plate VW IRS boxes with WRX spec EJ20T behind them with no real issues, becuase they are
sympathetic with the box. If you are planning on doing 6500rpm dump the clutch starts with your 10" rears........ maybe a G50 is the go, but
otherwise I would have thought the 915 would be OK.
I know one person on this forum was going to put a 308 holden behind one in a kombi.....
At any rate, utilising the 915 means less hassles for you as it is the standard box, thats got to come into the equation somewhere too.
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 02:22 PM |
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Yeah, I've never been rough on my gearbox's... Even with a Strong TH600 behind worked Injected 304 (Holden V8) & 9" locker - I never gave it a
hard time..
I mean, im not going to be driving miss daisy - might give it a punch here and there, but yeah.. Nothing crazy..
Thought about a G50.. but would rather not because its several $$$ more.. and its only a 4-speed... I think id prefer the 5-speed with a Turbo
motor...
We're getting there!
Reason I ask is because i've come across another doner car.. is a 74 widebody, updated to a 91 shape.. The guy blew the motor 2 years ago and its
been sitting in his shed ever since.. I've asked him to work out what he wants for it as is.. Its got a set of Polished FR18's 18x8 &
18x10's... Im already paranoid about chewing gearbox's.. so just thought id ask about the tyre width...
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 03:27 PM |
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I like the wide body.
I think the porsche box would be fine.
I've been running a nearly stock (4-spider diff added) 2L kombi gearbox behind my 2.5L V6 with 10.5" wide 31" tall mud tyres for 3.5 years and
it's been fine.
I don't dump the clutch in first on bitumen. And if you keep a stock clutch it will remain the weak link and protect the gearbox from such abuse.
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hugofirst
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 03:38 PM |
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Next question!
Im guessing the 915's are single spinners??? Are LSD's available?
Who's the best to talk to about the 915 box?? (or even VW - close enough!)
Im completely new to Transaxles!
I've been doing a bit of reading (what I can while at work!) and found:
"The Porsche 911 model 915 transaxle can handle reasonable (360 ft/lbs) gross torque from a modified V8"..... Whats the EJ20T put out??
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malcolm
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 04:49 PM |
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with a bit of work the 915 can handle 500hp.
if your going to put a subie in it go with the svx 3.3 litre orgo with 350 chev conversion.
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ricola
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 06:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by hugofirst
Thought about a G50.. but would rather not because its several $$$ more.. and its only a 4-speed... I think id prefer the 5-speed with a Turbo
motor...
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It is only the early 930 G50 that was 4 speed, most are 5 speed with the last ones (964) being 6 speed!
To be honest it sounds like you will be fine with a 915, especially if it is already there. I had one wiht my EJ20t and it was fine, just not the
quickest shift in the world. LSDs are readily available for them tho'.
Rich
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 24th, 2006 at 11:46 PM |
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EJ20T has 320Nm.
Pay your debts, CxxT
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