| [ Total Views: 860 | Total Replies: 19 | Thread Id: 59841 ] |
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 BASHOdi
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| posted on January 24th, 2007 at 08:16 AM |
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Steering woes Q ?
Hi all,
The newly aquired has a slight steering aberation , insomuch as to say it's a worry, the easyest way to describe it is that it crabs when cornering ,
it drives fine in a straight line but is very sensitive to direction changes tending to want to head of at the slightest steering change , the car has
been lowered.
Now I realise thats not much of a behavioral description but I have a feeling that this may be a known type of problem .
Can anyone give me any hints or help as to probable cause/s--and a pointer to a good front end shop Ipswich/ Brisbane would certainly be mighty
appreciated too,
Cheers All ,
Al .
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greedy53
Bishop of Volkswagenism
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| posted on January 24th, 2007 at 01:59 PM |
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get a wheel alinment and camber caster job your worries will be nomore
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sinecure
A.k.a.: Sin
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| posted on January 24th, 2007 at 06:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by greedy53
get a wheel alinment and camber caster job your worries will be nomore
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My type3 kit (seriously lowered) has this same issue which was not corrected by the above - done twice. It has been suggested that the steering box
needs adjustment/replacement, so I'll let you know how it is after that is done (in the next week or so).
Cheers,
Mick.
A POSSE AD ESSE.
I live in my own little world, but it's okay, they know me here.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 24th, 2007 at 06:49 PM |
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I wouldnt have thought "crabbing" was steering box.
I would also look at the rubber gear box mounts.
I had them go years ago.
Especially in "S" bends the car would wander/crab as the motor / gear box was being thrown around.
It always takes a while to sort a new car
Barry
Futue te ipsum!!!
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BASHOdi
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| posted on January 24th, 2007 at 08:32 PM |
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Thanks guys I'm taking it in to Pedders tomorrow for a front end sort out --alignment/ camber/caster and a full check for the rest if that don't fix
it, so I'll post the results up tomorrow when I getem-- whatever it is--I dont want to walk into the --- "we'll fix it by replaceing everything
there piecmeal till we get it right" situation iether they freekin Know what needs to be fixed ---or they freekin dont-- ,
Cheers , Al .
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sinecure
| Quote: | Originally
posted by greedy53
get a wheel alinment and camber caster job your worries will be nomore
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My type3 kit (seriously lowered) has this same issue which was not corrected by the above - done twice. It has been suggested that the steering box
needs adjustment/replacement, so I'll let you know how it is after that is done (in the next week or so).
Cheers,
Mick.
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Schmoburger
A.k.a.: Kieran "Schmeaux" Boundy Stock-Nazi, Kombi Konquistador
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 12:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by BASHOdi
Thanks guys I'm taking it in to Pedders tomorrow for a front end sort out --alignment/ camber/caster and a full check for the rest if that don't fix
it, so I'll post the results up tomorrow when I getem-- whatever it is--I dont want to walk into the --- "we'll fix it by replaceing everything
there piecmeal till we get it right" situation iether they freekin Know what needs to be fixed ---or they freekin dont-- ,
Cheers , Al .
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sinecure
| Quote: | Originally
posted by greedy53
get a wheel alinment and camber caster job your worries will be nomore
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My type3 kit (seriously lowered) has this same issue which was not corrected by the above - done twice. It has been suggested that the steering box
needs adjustment/replacement, so I'll let you know how it is after that is done (in the next week or so).
Cheers,
Mick.
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Be careful to get front end work done at a place that knows VW's... many run of the mill front end specialists dont have a clue when it comes to VW
steering, allignment and suspension... and avoid getting an alignment done at any place that primarily exists to sell tyres.... :ninja
If you have too much freeplay in your steering box it can get wandery (which is the best I can make of the description). a Kombi with the worm and
roller type steering box is supposed to have 0.6-1 inch of freeplay at the outer edge of the wheel... a Type 3 or Beetle may be more or less.
It is adjusted by undoing a locknut on the side of the box and turning in or out a screw until the correct freeplay is obtained.
Also how are your tie rod end balljoints?
Cheers!
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[url=www.baywindowmafia.tk][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/c
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 06:57 AM |
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Agreed ^
I took my beetle to about 5 places and they all got there computer books out and looked up 1975 beetle.
Scratched their heads and said they dont have the manufacturers settings to dial the computer in for a wheel alignment.
I told them the settings i want and theysaid - cant do
Richard said to take it to Tyre Smart in Emily Street Mortlake and no worries.
But yes - you need to be careful
Futue te ipsum!!!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 07:05 AM |
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Yes, as someome pointed out, You can't just buy a beetle and hope the 30+ year old parts have all been replaced....
VW steering boxes do need to be adjusted now and then..
it has to be done with the wheels in the straight ahead position....
and I wouldn't personally go to pedders....
they probably know nothing about beetles unlrss you take a workshop manual with You...
and then You would need to order the parts if they find which ones are faulty!!
They will NOT have any VW parts to fix Your problems...
No Ball joints, No tie rod ends, steering damper,
You may need front lower torsion bar shims, they won't know how to adjust Your steering box, and won't have the tools to do it....
Best to take it to someone who does do VW front wheel alignments and has all the parts....
a VW specialist.... will take much less time to do a wheel aliginment etc.....
Best of Luck
Lee Noonan -- 68Autobug -
[ Edited on 24-1-2007 by 68AutoBug ]
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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BASHOdi
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 07:08 AM |
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Hi Schomburger ,
thanks for that, all the tie rods steering links etc seem to be fine--at least I couldn't get any play out of them with mighty pushing and pulling ,
the previous owner altered the camber , however the thing would be running only about .05 or so negative at the most just by looking at it,and the
steering itself has very little play--actualy I just checked again and it's got about 1 &1/2" at the steering and if you wobble it to and fro
there's a knocking from the area of the steering box so I'm thinking thats a starting point I've just adjusted the steering box to 1/8"to a 1/4"
at the steering wheel and the knock/slack is now at each end of the lock.
Post more after the Pedders experiane later today.
Cheers , Al.
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BASHOdi
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 07:41 AM |
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Hi , this car was bought with the clear statement that all suspension/steering parts had been replaced with NOS OR OE spec parts within the last 18
months--I don't just buy a car and "hope" .
If there was a VW place just round the corner thats where the car would be now,
Adjusting the steering box for play aint rocket science and I've just done that.
As for repairers with stock--in my experiance so far in QLD --not likely--.
Your point is however taken regarding Pedders hopeing for the best--a wheel alignment which even they will be able to do (yes they will have the
workshop manual) may fix the problem--not likely--but may-- as the last owner set it himself to over an inch tow in --good stuff---.
At worst the least I hope to get is a report on what is actualy wrong--who fixes it has still to be found.
Cheers , Al .
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
Yes, as someome pointed out, You can't just buy a beetle and hope the 30+ year old parts have all been replaced....
VW steering boxes do need to be adjusted now and then..
it has to be done with the wheels in the straight ahead position....
and I wouldn't personally go to pedders....
they probably know nothing about beetles unlrss you take a workshop manual with You...
and then You would need to order the parts if they find which ones are faulty!!
They will NOT have any VW parts to fix Your problems...
No Ball joints, No tie rod ends, steering damper,
You may need front lower torsion bar shims, they won't know how to adjust Your steering box, and won't have the tools to do it....
Best to take it to someone who does do VW front wheel alignments and has all the parts....
a VW specialist.... will take much less time to do a wheel aliginment etc.....
Best of Luck
Lee Noonan -- 68Autobug -
[ Edited on 24-1-2007 by 68AutoBug ]
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 08:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
Yes, as someome pointed out, You can't just buy a beetle and hope the 30+ year old parts have all been replaced....
VW steering boxes do need to be adjusted now and then..
it has to be done with the wheels in the straight ahead position....
and I wouldn't personally go to pedders....
they probably know nothing about beetles unlrss you take a workshop manual with You...
and then You would need to order the parts if they find which ones are faulty!!
They will NOT have any VW parts to fix Your problems...
No Ball joints, No tie rod ends, steering damper,
You may need front lower torsion bar shims, they won't know how to adjust Your steering box, and won't have the tools to do it....
Best to take it to someone who does do VW front wheel alignments and has all the parts....
a VW specialist.... will take much less time to do a wheel aliginment etc.....
Best of Luck
Lee Noonan -- 68Autobug -
[ Edited on 24-1-2007 by 68AutoBug ]
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Cripes Lee...thats a bit harsh on Pedders. From EXPERIENCE with Pedders up here,as I knew the guy that owned the workshop and being the VW dealer up
here (where I used to work),we used to send our stuff to him if we were too busy.He kept a fair range of parts as listed in the Pedders listing,one of
the reasons we started using him.. and the W/A computer comes loaded with the software for ALL VW vehicles.My 411 is even in there and it is an
import. ANY clown can adjust a steering box so I'm sure the guys that do this for a living are quiet capable...NO out of the ordinary tools are
required to work on a VW front end. If you've had a bad experience with them...fair enough.I've had my worst experiences in VW's by using a "VW
specialist" but I know more people who have had no problems.
Back to the topic...If your car is "crabbing" as you describe it...make sure thay do a 4 WHEEL ALIGNMENT,not just the front wheels..If they charge
you and it doesn't resolve the problem,get your money back.:beer
tssnq.com.au
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xornge666x
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 09:07 AM |
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I too have had good experience with pedders. They do have a large range of parts to suit VW's still, and all the specs. Getting them to do the
camber/kingpin inclination on a link pin car maybe a stretch these days, but the older guys at the two I have used are well aware how to do it, and if
you are prepared to pay them for it, they will set it to exact standards... a little more than I can say for a few VW places I know of!!
I used to set the camber, and fit caster shims if necessary, and then the wheel alignment guys really only need to do the toe in/out. A decent shop
will also tell you if something is worn too (tie rod ends/balljoint/steering box/draglink/idler arms etc etc).
If its as obvious as it sounds when driving it, it should be easy to pick once up in the air or on alignment machine.
Good luck with it!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 01:42 PM |
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Hi,
Sorry to step on anyones toes....
I was going to have a wheel alignment done on My beetle
but found it was up to the fellow adjusting the car to actually know how to adjust, what the computer tells him.
OK on Pedders.... for ordinary cars I would recommend them... and it looks like My Lancer may be visiting them...
over 100kms away...
VW steering box.... best to adjust with the large allen key headed adjuster.... so I've been told by VW Mechanic...
I always used to adjust them with the top screw....
but this was back in the 60s and 70s and they weren't as worn as they are now...
and AL, the steering boxes on VWs always have play at both ends ....
and apologies on the ball joints etc being replaced....
I read so much I forget who's who...
Best of luck
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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greedy53
Bishop of Volkswagenism
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| posted on January 25th, 2007 at 03:44 PM |
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just an idea i replaced the steering box oil with grease and what a differance the old girl was like new
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BASHOdi
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| posted on January 26th, 2007 at 03:59 PM |
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Hi Guys ,
Well back from pedders and driving much better(but still not 100%) with the wonderfull gawd nows how much tow out removed and a report on the
rest of the settings all of which are a bit out from stock allowing for the lowering but nothing to drastic and not enough even in total to cause
misbehaviour I'm going to change the steering damper next week as the bigest single improvement has come with the steering box adjust,so following
that line it seems logical. if that dosen't get it off to VW & Volvo I think as I'm guessin that the front beam will be the final mischief maker to
spank.
I'll post again when I've got it nailed,
Cheers , Al .
---I love the grease Idea--he he
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 26th, 2007 at 05:02 PM |
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Yes,
I think VW actually used lithium based Moly grease in the steering boxes in later years...
I pumped Mine full of moly grease too....
early beetles didn't have steering dampers, so its funny they seem to make a lot of difference....
I just replaced Mine... as I had it round the wrong way, and all the oil leaked out.... :o:o
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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BASHOdi
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| posted on January 27th, 2007 at 07:53 AM |
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Hi Lee,
had me worried, thought I'd bin sein things but yup there the damper is-- 62 pan--,
Cheers, Al .:beer
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BASHOdi
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on February 2nd, 2007 at 07:59 AM |
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Hey Mick had yours done yet ? how did you go ?
Cheers , Al .
| Quote: | Originally
posted by sinecure
| Quote: | Originally
posted by greedy53
get a wheel alinment and camber caster job your worries will be nomore
|
My type3 kit (seriously lowered) has this same issue which was not corrected by the above - done twice. It has been suggested that the steering box
needs adjustment/replacement, so I'll let you know how it is after that is done (in the next week or so).
Cheers,
Mick.
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sinecure
A.k.a.: Sin
Custom Title Time!
Want another... :(
Posts: 1031
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| posted on February 2nd, 2007 at 12:55 PM |
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Unfortunately, I got bored when I had (supposedly) a few days off from Tuesday to Friday and stripped the interior to make a new dash panel, re-stick
the roof lining and re-cover the centre console, then got called back in for graveyard shifts THAT NIGHT! 
So the poor little thing is sitting in a sorry state of undriveable sadness at the moment, until next Monday when I get another 2 days off (which I
have taken as leave so they can't screw my again!). An avd'er has offered to help me adjust my steering box, so I'll give that a shot first, as
'wandering' at speed is my biggest problem. And yes, a reputable VW mechanic will be booked to re-do the 4 wheel align and camber check, as the
first two were done by a speed shop (after I took it back the second time, I took the manager for a ride to demonstrate what I meant and he cheerfully
refunded my dosh, stating that they obviously hadn't fixed it. I didn't ask, he offered.)
On the plus side, I did all the work cutting, shaping and filing the new alloy dash, re-wiring the harness and fitting the gauges while on graves, so
at least that's ready to go back in.
A POSSE AD ESSE.
I live in my own little world, but it's okay, they know me here.
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BASHOdi
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on February 3rd, 2007 at 07:41 AM |
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Thanks for the reply mate, I'm taking mine up to VW/Volvo Wed so I'll let you know how I go,
Good to here you're keepin' buisy,
Cheers , Al .
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