| [ Total Views: 678 | Total Replies: 18 | Thread Id: 59943 ] |
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 humpty
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 12:10 AM |
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Head Studs for a Turbo Donk
As the title suggests.... No I won't go into details on the engine spec, but what sort of head studs would the tech gurus suggest for my current
engine project. Im piecing together a 2276 stroker that will be running EFI, T3/T4 Turbo, Air-Water intercooling and be capable of some good numbers
for a street car... So any suggestions will be taken on board.... I have a few options here, but I have been thinking of upgrading and I don't have a
problem with fitting inserts into the new ali crank case....
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xornge666x
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 01:35 AM |
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these... raceware
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=293553
depenging on boost chromoly may do the job.
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seagull
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 01:59 AM |
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yep I see another 7 k going down the loo
going to love wasting this on the street
still no fast air cooled in Perth :thumb
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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xornge666x
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 10:37 AM |
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dont think they are quite 7k!!
an engine that needs them though would most likely be that and some!!
If you want easy hp go turbo rotary or nissan. The fun is in making the VW go...
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Turbo54
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 04:12 PM |
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Humpty, I am running the scat extra hard 10,000psi whatever they are ones. Adam who ran 11.88 out of his 1915 used them and never had a problem.
Depends on how much boost your running
Gull – why dont you get behind some of these people building turbo motors rather than just hacking them down with your wrx shit. Have you run this
combo you keep going on about? I too could of built my oval with a suby motor and I know what there ike as I drive a GT forester but it's so not the
point. Its making something that was not designed for speed fast bugger the cost. Its what me and humpty and a few others want to do. A bit more
encouragement and less 'cant wait to waste this on the street!'
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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BeetleJuice
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 05:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
yep I see another 7 k going down the loo
going to love wasting this on the street
still no fast air cooled in Perth :thumb
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There wouldn't be a flat 4 sube motor if it wasn't for the real flat 4!
Yet to see a quick bug with a sube motor anyway!
FringeDweller
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BeetleJuice
A.k.a.: Craig Paton
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 05:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Turbo54
Gull – why dont you get behind some of these people building turbo motors rather than just hacking them down with your wrx shit. Have you run this
combo you keep going on about? I too could of built my oval with a suby motor and I know what there ike as I drive a GT forester but it's so not the
point. Its making something that was not designed for speed fast bugger the cost. Its what me and humpty and a few others want to do. A bit more
encouragement and less 'cant wait to waste this on the street!'
T54
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Couldn't agree more!
FringeDweller
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humpty
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 06:46 PM |
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Dont worry fellas.... Neil is just messing with ya'll.... He's a mate of mine and loves to stick the boot in at every opportunity!.... But never
fear, he has done and continues to, help me out with my projects and supply me with beer most Sunday arvo's!.... Wether they be VW powered or Subi
powered.... Yes, that is correct... I have Subi powered dubs too.... I have an EG33 powered Bus and soon to have my EJ25T powered Notch completed....
Hence the questions about the stroker.... Thats the next cab off the rank.... As soon as the Notch is done, the Ragtop gets the long awaited turbo,
efi stroker.... And as T54 said.... This engine is about building "something that was not designed for speed, fast, bugger the cost..." I have
wanted to do this for 20years, its not the 'smartest' thing to do, its not the most effective use of my hard earned, but 'cricky' its gonna be
fun!
As for the head stud issue.... thanks for heads up (pun!) on the options.... I actually have some CB "145,000 psi 4140 chromoly" 8mm deals here, but
Im unsure of the quality and indeed if the 8mm deals will provide the security.... Do you run 10mm studs Heath?.... I have looked at the 'RACEWARE'
ones that Steve (SERRANOS) has on sale but he currently owes me over a K US, so it is unlikely he will be getting anymore coin out of me!
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Schmoburger
A.k.a.: Kieran "Schmeaux" Boundy Stock-Nazi, Kombi Konquistador
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| posted on January 28th, 2007 at 11:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by humpty
I have an EG33 powered Bus
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Now THAT is one Scoobaru powered bus that I'd love to own! :duh 
Much and all as I dont like watercooled conversions... a 33 is just too cool!  
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[url=www.baywindowmafia.tk][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/c
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humpty
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 01:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Schmoburger
| Quote: | Originally
posted by humpty
I have an EG33 powered Bus
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Now THAT is one Scoobaru powered bus that I'd love to own! :duh
Much and all as I dont like watercooled conversions... a 33 is just too cool!
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Why thank you.... Im quite fond of it too!.... Im planning to make the old girl look a little better this year too.... Not sure what I'll do, but it
needs bigger brakes and better rubber and better suspension.... Might go all euro on its ass this year..... Just like Iv'e done on my tatty ol'skool
paint,interior/Euro Tech Notch!.... Its the next big thing.... You mark my words!!!!:P
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dangerous
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 05:50 AM |
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I have used raceware 10mm. They are the best but not cheap.
If you stay 8mm definitely go for the raceware ones.
That being said...Wally's 1915 turbo alcohol drag car uses VW genuswine 8mm and has run 10.16@139 so they can work, but I could hear them leaking at
warwick.
I also ran with my blower with 8 and 10mm VW head studs, but only if the tune up is perfect.
That means no detonation.
That brings me to my next point.
Boost does not govern the head studs required.
Cylinder pressue does.
Boost is in the manifold.
Detonation gives spikes in cylinder pressure.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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Turbo54
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 02:34 PM |
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Humpty, 10mm Scat but had to notch the barrels a bit i think.
Sorry, didn't know he was a friend, my mate with a wrx keeps telling me the same, tell him he's dreemin.
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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xornge666x
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 02:57 PM |
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I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???
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OwenMM
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 03:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by xornge666x
I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???
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It does. But doubling boost does not double cylinder pressures.
I had a nice little graph in a book that showed the approximate increases in cylinder pressure VS Boost pressure, and adding say 15psi increased peak
pressures by around 20%max ( I may be way out but that was the gist of it)
Detonation is a violent uncontrolled explosion (as opposed to a burn) in the engine that vastly increases the pressures. Increasing boost increases
chances of detonation.
Someone better educated can explain better!!:P
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humpty
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| posted on January 29th, 2007 at 07:07 PM |
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Thanks guys for the tips.... Its looking good for the RACEWARE items.... Its not the pressure that concerns me, its the overall forces in play with
higher temps, more rpm, more cylinder area, more, more, more!.... It has been my experience that the more you try to make something do something its
not supposed to do, the more likely something will give.... Upgrading the heads studs seems like yet another item that provides a little added
security to the package as a whole.... What's another 350 bux chucked at an engine that owes me close to 6k?.... Not a whole lot.....
And Heath.... I tell Neil he's dreamin' most everytime I talk to him..... But he does live in his own little world, and he likes it that way! 
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xornge666x
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| posted on January 30th, 2007 at 01:34 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by OwenMM
| Quote: | Originally
posted by xornge666x
I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???
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It does. But doubling boost does not double cylinder pressures.
I had a nice little graph in a book that showed the approximate increases in cylinder pressure VS Boost pressure, and adding say 15psi increased peak
pressures by around 20%max ( I may be way out but that was the gist of it)
Detonation is a violent uncontrolled explosion (as opposed to a burn) in the engine that vastly increases the pressures. Increasing boost increases
chances of detonation.
Someone better educated can explain better!!:P
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thats what I thought, so in theory higher boost can dictate the studs required, as it directly affects the cylinder pressure (increase), and also
increases possibility of detonation until a perfect tune is obtained...
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humpty
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| posted on January 30th, 2007 at 08:55 PM |
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Its funny the differing replies you get from a simple question.... I ask Mike Sheldon, what he used on his engines and he said the 10mm BUGPACK studs
(9mm with rolled thread as per OEM) are better than the SCAT ones (10mm with cut thread), as the SCAT ones require mods to the cylinders to make them
fit properly.... But he did say the Stock 10mm studs will also work fine (as Dave suggested), but did note some potential issues.
So the next question is.... If I fit the 10mm studs, should I also fit larger case savers to suit, or turn the studs straight in as per stock?
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on January 31st, 2007 at 07:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
That brings me to my next point.
Boost does not govern the head studs required.
Cylinder pressue does.
Boost is in the manifold.
Detonation gives spikes in cylinder pressure.
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My point was that there are many different things that can require an engine to need a better head stud.
BMEP is the main contributer(Brake Mean Effective Pressure...cylinder pressure),
and also BORE AREA.
If these things increase then at some point a stronger stud may be required.
To say: 'at such-and such boost a better head stud is needed',
is probably a false rule of thumb.
Yes, IN GENERAL higher boost does equate to higher cylinder pressures,(but not if the engine's intake is restricted).
As an example, a 40hp engine with stock heads and 30lbs boost will make a lot less cylinder stud load
than a 2332 with comp eliminater heads, 94 bore and 30lbs boost.
Just the bore size change from 77 to 94 is a massive(49%) increase in area, and thus force against the head, for the same BMEP.
But without getting into a 10 page essay, I would say Simon, that you should get the best head stud that money can buy.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2007 at 08:34 PM |
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Cheers Dave.... I have ordered the 10mm BUGPACK jobbies.... So I guess Im not gonna need those 8mm CB deals.... Might just chuck'em in the
cupboard!... You never know.... I might use them someday....
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