| [ Total Views: 1453 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 66186 ] |
|
|
 1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 20th, 2007 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
Clutch slipping?
I am running a 1916 with twin webbers on a 1300 swing axle gearbox with 31x 10.5 tyres on my baja and my clutch seems to be slipping under load when
changing gears. I think i might need a heavier pressure plate but i'm not really sure. Any ideas?
Thanks.
|
|
|
Pete
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 251
Threads: 69
Registered: March 3rd, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on November 21st, 2007 at 07:39 AM |
|
|
hey mate, the combination of 1916 with 31's still running the swing axle 200mm clutch will be abit of a drama, i have heard of people running a
heavier pressure plate to compensate and ended up working so i think your on the right track!!.
[size=4] pete - Custom VeeDub[/size]
28 Hayward st stafford 33564356 |
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 21st, 2007 at 12:52 PM |
|
|
I had a 1916 with twin webers and the stock 200mm clutch / pressure plate combo. It was fine. Don't go to a heavy duty unit, you'll just break your
gearbox
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 21st, 2007 at 05:55 PM |
|
|
Do you think it could be just a case of a stretched clutch cable? coz it's adjusted nearly all the way out and i dont know how old the cable is?
|
|
|
OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
Custom Title Time!
Keen to finish some projects
Posts: 1921
Threads: 132
Registered: December 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Alexandra Hills Brisbane QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Having fun in our great land
|
| posted on November 21st, 2007 at 07:10 PM |
|
|
The cable will have nothing to do with it unless its adjusted incorrectly.
You should have approx 5 - 10mm play at the TOP of your clutch lever at the bellhousing from the point of where it naturally sits on the cable to
pulling it foward by hand and feeling it touch the pressure plate.
If you have no movement at all you will be riding the clutch full time which is causing the slipping and wearing out the thrust bearing.
If you have the required free play , sorry but ya better pull the motor and check the flywheel , pressure plate , and clutch for wear etc and post
your results.
Andrew
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on November 21st, 2007 at 11:13 PM |
|
|
How old is yours - is it worn out?
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 22nd, 2007 at 05:25 PM |
|
|
The clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing are all new but the cable is not. Thanx andrew that sounds about right as i don't have any play i
dont think. i'll check it out on the weekend and post my results.
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 23rd, 2007 at 08:34 AM |
|
|
You definitely need some free-play as Andrew said. The best play to measure the play is at the pedal. You should be able to feel 20-30mm of freeplay
in the pedal (where it is lightly sprung). The clutch take-up point should not be at the very end of the pedal travel (just before the pedal is
released completely).
If the cable is fine, then you may have a flywheel that is too worn / has been machined too many times. The deeper the recess in the flywheel is, the
weaker the pressure plate will seem.
An oil leak from the gearbox input shaft will also cause slipping and other issues.
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 23rd, 2007 at 09:01 PM |
|
|
Is it a major job to replace that seal? I did notice it was a little oily when i pulled the old engine out but i didn't think much of it coz that
engine was leaking so bad anyway. Oil just about everywhere.
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 24th, 2007 at 09:19 AM |
|
|
It's easy to replace once the engine is out. I normally replace it every time I have the engine out because it's so cheap and easy to change then
(as opposed to later). Just carefully dig it out either with a screw driver, or by screwing a screw into it and then pulling it out with pliers (just
be careful not to damage the gearbox hole or input shaft seal surface).
|
|
|
ancientbugger
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1986
Threads: 191
Registered: March 24th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
|
| posted on November 24th, 2007 at 06:57 PM |
|
|
Also don't forget that o-ring in the flywheel, it always catches me out
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 25th, 2007 at 07:08 PM |
|
|
cheers, it turns out it is not adjustment so it must be something more. i'll be pulling the engine out this week sometime to fix it. I had the
flywheel off to get it machined and i don't remember seeing any o-rings? is it in the flywheel or the engine case?
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 25th, 2007 at 07:20 PM |
|
|
Did you have the flywheel resurfaced?
If it gets resurfaced too many times it will become too deep, and lowers the pressure plate pressure.
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 26th, 2007 at 05:12 PM |
|
|
I did get it machined. i don't know how many times it has been before though. is there a minnimum depth? as in measurement?
|
|
|
ancientbugger
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1986
Threads: 191
Registered: March 24th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
|
| posted on November 26th, 2007 at 07:05 PM |
|
|
The o-ring is in the flywheel where it goes over the end of the crankshaft.
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 26th, 2007 at 07:42 PM |
|
|
Hmmm, i should check that.
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 26th, 2007 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
Are you in Brisbane? There are a couple of good clutch shops around. Where did you buy the new clutch and pressure plate from, and what brand is
it?
My VW manuals don't say anything about tolerances for the flywheel. But it does say the maximum amount to be skimmed off the pressure plate is 1.0mm.
A good clutch specialist can shim the pressure plate spring to account for this type of problem.
When does it slip, only on full power when driving hard changing gears, or even when driving normally changing gears?
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 05:18 PM |
|
|
Yeah i'm in brisbane, it's ok when you baby it. If you just ease the power on its ok but when you put your foot down it slips. but very rarly in
first. Put it this way, i could be cruising at about 70 kph and then i put my foot down and it slips, same at 100kph you get my drift? and also when i
change gears driving hard. mainly under load, the more weight i got in the car the worse it is. and it doesn't happen all the time. most of the time
but not all. I got the clutch and pressure plate from mick motors, i think it was sachs. i'll find out on friday when i pull the engine out.
If the clutch is soaked in oil its pretty much useless right?
|
|
|
OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
Custom Title Time!
Keen to finish some projects
Posts: 1921
Threads: 132
Registered: December 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Alexandra Hills Brisbane QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Having fun in our great land
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 05:38 PM |
|
|
If the clutch is wet with oil you can clean the the pressure plate with kero or turps etc but DO NOT clean the clutch plate with anything but hot
soapy water or water based degreaser , although i would probabley not re use the clutch plate and just keep it as a spare as you can purchase clutch
plates only for not many dollars .
By the way how long has this clutch kit been in the car and did it do it before the clutch change plus when installing the new clutch kit did you
remove the film of protective laquer from the new pressure plate face as if this was not done then this will be you problem as the clutch plate is
only griping on the fly wheel side and sliping on the laquer on the pressure plate face.
If this is the case once you have removed the motor and clutch , wipe the face of the pressure plate down wth some thinners and lightly scuff up the
pressure plate side of clutch plate with some 120grit sand paper.
Let us know what it all looks like when you pul the motor Sat morn
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
|
|
|
MUD BASHING ANYONE ??
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 591
Threads: 23
Registered: May 27th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Need to be inspired !!
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 06:02 PM |
|
|
dont forget when machinng the flywheel that the clutch surface and the surface that the preasure plate bolts up to
have to be machanie the same amount or you will be weakening the preasure that the preasure plate can put on the clutch i take an extra 0.5mm off the
preasure plate surface to give it a bit more bite works well all mine have it done to them.
And if the clutch is a lukct brand or somthing like that they are crap i bought one put it in and it slipped straight up on a 1600 find a sachs one
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 06:07 PM |
|
|
Clutch has been in the car for about 3-4 months i guess. yeah i took the coating off. I can't remember if it was doing it before the clutch change as
i only drove it on the test drive and then home from where i bought it. I think i would have noticed if it was though. i had clutch shutter problems
when i first put it in but that was fixed by machining the flywheel and a new bowden tube. i've got another flywheel i can try if i have to. i'll
probably need to get it machined though. Why is it that i always leave these little problems till just before i go to the beach in my cars? Does
everybody do this or just me? First new engine went into manx just before straddie, Kadrons, new engine cage and new exhaust on manx day before valla,
Next New engine in manx went in day before it was a wedding car at tweed heads for my brother. now this? I'm going to ballina for christmas in it.
|
|
|
OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
Custom Title Time!
Keen to finish some projects
Posts: 1921
Threads: 132
Registered: December 7th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Alexandra Hills Brisbane QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Having fun in our great land
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 07:40 PM |
|
|
Trust me you are not the lone soldier when it comes to last minute builds as i am well known for it my self, how about this for a little pressure .
This week ~
Its my 40th Sat Night 1st Dec
We're renovating our house and have tilers starting 7am monday morning and haven't pullled up the carpet or vynal yet
My parents arrive from Tassie tomorrow night and are staing with us WITH THEIR DOG SO WITH OUR TWO DOGS THAT MAKES 3
A few mates are flying in for the weekend for my party so got to do the right thing and entertain them.
I can't take any time of work due to a high pressure job at the Airport
And i'mm still trying to finish the Baja Kombi flat 6 Subie engine conversion for Christmas
No pressure at all really NOT !!!!!
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on November 27th, 2007 at 07:44 PM |
|
|
That's some pretty bad slipping your describing, it's certainly not normal. I think you'd have to have an oil leak or something to get that
problem. Can you see anything leaking from between the bellhousing and engine? There is a little gap at the bottom where it is designed to leak
(instead of filling the bellhousing.
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 28th, 2007 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
I think there might be a bit leaking from there. its hard to say though. Iv'e been to lazy to have a proper look and whenever i degrees the engine i
only do the engine, i just turn a blind eye to the gearbox. Will know on saturday i hope.
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 30th, 2007 at 09:19 PM |
|
|
Well i got it up on the hoist and the clutch is dry, no oil leaking and it seems to have fixed itself. I could not get it to slip at all today. Is it
possible that the clutch may have needed to bed in a bit after adjusting? other than that i have no idea??? i'm stumped???
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on November 30th, 2007 at 10:11 PM |
|
|
Kiss your bible...or your VW service manual!
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
1916baja
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1990
Threads: 176
Registered: September 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane - Mt Gravatt
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 6th, 2007 at 04:54 PM |
|
|
It hasn't completely fixed itself... she still slips sometimes. today it's good, tommorrow it might be different! i love volkswagens!
|
|
|
