| [ Total Views: 6114 | Total Replies: 46 | Thread Id: 66708 ] |
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 66deluxe
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 08:48 AM |
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Type 4 engine conversion
Hi all, i am currently in the middle of a type 4 engine conversion into my 72 auto notch, plans are either a 1911 or 2056cc engine, i am thinking of
going for 1911cc which is a 66x96 combo, the main problem is the air intake bellows, i was lucky enough to score an original 412 station wagen intake
duct and rubber boot, but there is a problem the type 4 engine sits to far back to use the intake duct and original type 3 boot, so after much thought
and measuring i think i will get the 412 intake duct replicated out of carbon fibre for its strength and make a mould and cast new boots out of
silicon using the original diameter of the type3 body and original diameter of the 412 intake duct, and hopefully if it works will then sell these to
the lovely type 3 crowd if they want to do such a conversion. I am buying a new cam and lifters from Jake Raby in the US, as well as heads from him.
I have already got short manifolds and the correct air filters to clear the deck. My notch has been sitting in the shed for 2 years and now the bug
is back to get it going again, that and the fact i am seriously considering starting an engine overhaul shop, cant really promote my aircooled engine
building skills while driving an 04 Golf gti. Here are a few pics of the eingine in place with the 412 duct. Cheers Damo.
 
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
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jo_tas
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 09:27 AM |
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That would be fantastic if you can get some made!
I'm sure there's plenty of people (myself included) who would love one!
There was a big discussion on this on thesamba forums a little while back, someone was going to make some but it never happened.. so theres another
entire market over in the US (and probably other places too!) 
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Tazz
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 01:22 PM |
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there is a converted wagon in toowoomba thats a sweet looker. I'm sure i seen somewhere there is a conversion kit of some sort around. My memory
fails me to where i seen it but it changed the the outer fan housing to fit type3 bellow.
Tazz
1962 Type3 Squareback
1967 Type3 Fastback "Kermit"
The truth is important. It will set you free
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66deluxe
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 05:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Tazz
there is a converted wagon in toowoomba thats a sweet looker. I'm sure i seen somewhere there is a conversion kit of some sort around. My memory
fails me to where i seen it but it changed the the outer fan housing to fit type3 bellow.
Tazz
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Tazz, there was a guy in South Africa with a kit but i have tried several times to contact him but to no avail. I will remove the duct and take a pic
to let you guys better understand why i think a custom boot is required.
Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
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OZ Towdster
A.k.a.: Andrew Westwood
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 05:22 PM |
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Damo how about just making an adaptor at the motor from fibreglass that bolts on to the type 4 fan screen points and just uses the standard type 3
bellows or is there not enough room between motor and body ???
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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66deluxe
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 06:58 PM |
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Adam, there aint enough room, i fitted the type 3 boot it does fit but is severely squashed and rubs against the cooling fan and would most likely get
pinched by the belt and get ripped off. Also i didn't want to risk breaking the rare 412 intake duct, i have thought this over for ages and i think
a new boot is the answer, maybe even get some silicon rubber sheet and have it stitched to correct size on both ends, was even thinking kevlar cloth
could do the trick, hard to get but when you work in the aircraft industry, these things become available more easily. i will solve this problem.
Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
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OZ Towdster
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 07:31 PM |
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Sounds good and as i thought to tight for the type 3 bellow , but hay some times we all overlook the obvious in our great ideas and just my 2
cents.
Keep it quite but my name is ANDREW 
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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66deluxe
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 07:55 PM |
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| Quote: | [quote
Keep it quite but my name is ANDREW
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So it is, helps if you look at the name under the avatar sorry mate.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
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Tazz
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| posted on December 27th, 2007 at 08:06 PM |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally
posted by 66deluxe
[quote
Keep it quite but my name is ANDREW
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So it is, helps if you look at the name under the avatar sorry mate.
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Found this.. i printed it out ages ago i'll see if i can find the website again
Fan intake boot: WIth an air cooled engine, it is critical that the engine be fed a diet of cool air. On the Type 3 (and the Type 4 station wagen),
this air was pulled in through vents in the rear fenders, direct to a rubber boot that connected the body to the fan shroud. Without this boot, the
fan will pull in the hot air surrounding the engine, and will not properly cool the engine. You will want to mock this setup with your new Type 4
engine.
After a lot of research, it has been found that the 411/412 station wagens (Variant) used a very similar setup that is handy in this conversion. The
boot flange that bolts to the Type 4 fan shroud is quite rare. A VW parts manual shows the part number as 021-119-609A and was installed on all years
of 411 and 412 station wagens (Variants).
The most difficult part of solving this problem is locating this flange. You will probably have to check local wrecking yards, eBay, or maybe see if
you can get your local VW dealer to check their shelves for an NOS one. Use this flange with the rubber bellows and clamps and your engine will be
getting a supply of fresh air.
Tazz
1962 Type3 Squareback
1967 Type3 Fastback "Kermit"
The truth is important. It will set you free
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66deluxe
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| posted on December 28th, 2007 at 03:26 PM |
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Yes that is off Tuna's site under t4 conversion i will take photos of the duct and the boot and you will see why a custom boot must be made, i could
cut both t3 and t4 boots and glue them together but i want to make these so other people can do the conversion. Thanks Tazz, Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
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Tazz
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| posted on December 28th, 2007 at 11:36 PM |
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kool. can you just get me a pic of the Type 4 boot... memory is failing me. Wondering if its easier to modify a plate to fit the type 3 hole to
reduce it to type4. The plate could sit on the inside of the lip on the body giving you ample room for the rubber to flex. Sheet metal is easier to
play with. Sealed up with either some pinchweld or sikaflex. Fully welded wouldnt matter because its inside the type3 hole, so the original bellow
would just fit over it if you needed to do a quick engine change back to type3.
Tazz
1962 Type3 Squareback
1967 Type3 Fastback "Kermit"
The truth is important. It will set you free
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avwboy
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| posted on December 29th, 2007 at 12:03 AM |
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heres one i did at the workshop for my brothers notch project
i had a 411/412 boot and adapter
but the adapter was not only too close to the body , it also seemed to point up on an angle
i sectioned the adapter , mocked up the two halves
and then fiberglassed it up on the inside/ outside
the ouside is so so looking , but the inside i made sure to shape it for flow as much as possible
sorry i dont have any before / sectioned pics
but here is the finished product , it has no clamps and works fantastic
from memory oil temps went from 115ish to 90-95 while cruising
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MY68VW
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| posted on December 29th, 2007 at 09:41 PM |
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I'm so interested in putting a Type IV engine in my square, if this part becomes available I'm another customer.
Tuned Type IV power - shaking out the rust.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
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| posted on January 9th, 2008 at 10:24 PM |
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If you know a good motor trimmer that does trimming in industrial strength canvas get him to make a bellow that will fit.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
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66deluxe
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| posted on February 2nd, 2008 at 07:00 AM |
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Well i scored another 412 inlet duct of the samba now i have 2, one is still in the car for measuring purposes and the other is at a custom fibreglass
shop i found yesterday, now the plan is to make new ducts with the original mounting points to the fan shroud and have the type 3 inlet so we can use
the original type 3 boot, but this boot must be cut at the second rib to shorten it, the ducts will be made of aluminised carbon fibre so that they
are super strong and high temp resistant. A silicon boot is also getting made, with aramid fibre reinforcement, hopefully should have the prototype
made in two weeks, i told the fabricator that if it is successful i will get more made. I am working on custom aluminium cross bar mounts so that
they are slightly longer, these attach to th engine case and so i can use a bolt on dipstick adapter that i will get from Jake Raby, the idea behind
this is to lower the cross bar to allow fitment of the dipstick adapter and remove the original type 3 diptick filler. i am working on the brackets
that attach the cross bar to the body. As for filling engine with oil you can just remove stock type 4 breather and fill from there. The only part
they may be trouble is timing your engine, as i have a 914 fan shroud it has a screw in plug that you remove to time the engine, type 2 shrouds don't
have this, still working on that one.
Timing marks are usually stamped on the bus fans as i have checked with other fans that i have.
Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
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T-34
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| posted on February 7th, 2008 at 04:35 PM |
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It's possible to make the bellows out of thick leather - you'll need to make a pattern to check the fit before cutting and sewing up the bellows
into a suitable 'cone' shape to fit - if you don't like the sound of leather - rubber sheeting will also possibly work.
You'll need to use giant hose clamps / duct clamps to fit it on. 
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Tazz
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| posted on February 7th, 2008 at 05:18 PM |
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Sounds like you got it sorted Damo... cant wait to see it in the flesh.
Tazz
1962 Type3 Squareback
1967 Type3 Fastback "Kermit"
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T-34
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| posted on February 7th, 2008 at 09:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
If you know a good motor trimmer that does trimming in industrial strength canvas get him to make a bellow that will fit.
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ooops - missed this post 
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66deluxe
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| posted on February 19th, 2008 at 03:45 PM |
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Well got some bad news the fibreglass guy got back to me finally and quoted $1300 for the mold and one finished product, so i said thanks but no
thanks, so it looks like its back to the drawing board. Sorry.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
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Volkswagenboy
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| posted on March 5th, 2008 at 08:24 AM |
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I guess not enough market out there just yet hey?
-Staggers.
STAGGERS AUTOMOTIVE - Heavy Vehicle Diesel Specialist
JB CUSTOMS & CLASSICS - Car Builders
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Cam
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| posted on March 14th, 2008 at 12:44 AM |
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Would it be worth starting some sort of syndicate by getting those of us who are definite buyers to help fund the initial production?
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OZ Towdster
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| posted on March 14th, 2008 at 06:53 AM |
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That sounds expensive damo , i would geta couple of other quotes i think as i have had quotes for moulds to for my Towdster guards and they are half
that and twice the size.Send me a PM with your phone number and i will put you in contact with CVD'S Glasser.
As for the timing marks why dont you use the 30mm dia hole at the top of the engine case and mark the back of the flywheel using the original guide
for the degree settings then just a simple filed groove in the hole to align with when timing.
Andrew
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
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bond
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| posted on April 27th, 2008 at 07:36 AM |
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good idea adam
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typ371
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| posted on May 14th, 2008 at 03:31 PM |
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Hi there I am new here, just wondering if you have you thought of moving the engine forward 2-3 inches it is not that hard and it would help gain a
bit more room and also help with the weight as the t4 engine is heavier than the origional moving the the weight forward should also help the handing.
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 14th, 2008 at 05:24 PM |
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I thought about that but then i decided to use the type 4 boot that i got with the inlet duct and will push the large end into the body and then onto
the inlet duct, it fits great, i have made the rear engine mount from kombi mount i just made to uprights from plate stell and two pieces of square
tube steel and welded them together, i have almost started on the engine build, rods are currently being overhauled and BBC ARP wavelocks going in and
balanced end to end, crankshaft is currently off beeing balanced and remaining parts are on their way from Jake Raby, I have cleaned and measured the
case and it is in great condition, i am using a set of original VW main bearings in std/std size a swapmeet find for $30, the crank measured up
standard on both main and rod journals, so i had it polished. Heads will be 42x36 2 litre chamber and stock plug location, 96 KB pistons, AA
cylinders, RAT Valvetrain kit, twin 40 IDF webers electronic ignition in stock type4 205 dizzy or mallory unilite, custom exhaust. I have to make
some steel mounts to replace the rubber ones on the engine cas mounts as the dummy engines rocks easily, the type 3 mounts to the body will be the
only rubber mount then.
Cheers Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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jake raby
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| posted on May 20th, 2008 at 01:59 PM |
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Looks good Damo!!
(always in stealth mode, seldom revealing my presence :-) |
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on May 20th, 2008 at 06:24 PM |
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Make sure you beef up the Type 3 body around where the engine bar mounts into it.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
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Andy
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| posted on May 20th, 2008 at 08:31 PM |
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Howdy Damo, looking good mate!
Question for you, you have kept the stock kombi bar at the rear (modified of course).
Do you still have the rubbers between the bar and the case?
And will you use the stock type 3 mounts betwee nthe body and the bar??
Cheers,
Richard
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 21st, 2008 at 03:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jake raby
Looks good Damo!!
(always in stealth mode, seldom revealing my presence :-)
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Thanks Jake.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 21st, 2008 at 03:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
Make sure you beef up the Type 3 body around where the engine bar mounts into it.
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Brenden can i come round and have a look what you did?, i am 5 minutes away at Murrumba Downs.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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