| [ Total Views: 1154 | Total Replies: 11 | Thread Id: 72881 ] |
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 HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
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| posted on November 13th, 2008 at 08:25 PM |
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Bulletproof rear end???
So its looking like I'm going to go bigger on my drag motor than I first thought, which has got me wondering about the gearbox. I want to kind of
future proof it for any motor upgrades along the way.
The car is a 59 Beetle so I would like to keep it swingaxle rear, IRS is out of the question. I don't want to say too much about the motor as right
now its all in the air so I'd just be speculating.
But I'm thinking it may be worth going to a 091 Bus box for a bit more insurance than a beefed up T1 box. My questions are:
What should be done to an 091 to make it suitable for drag racing? Say I'm aiming for 300Hp to be safe (may not get there)
Does anyone in Aus do a solid mount bus to bug, possibly raised or do I need to shop OS?
Same for a folts type swingaxle conversion, does anyone make a similar one in Aus?
Am I likely to blow heaps more $ on this than a well beefed T1 box with HD axles etc? It seems as if you need to keep throwing hipo bits at the T1
box so I'm assuming a decent one will cost heaps. If the bus box doesn't need too much it might be worthwhile.
Cheers,
Greg
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on November 14th, 2008 at 05:51 AM |
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The cost to build will not be alot more when you consider the reduced maintenance required.
Keeping the swingaxle set up is lighter and simpler,
but Dave Folts kit was US$1200 last I checked.
Dave Stoker from LMS in Campbelltown made a set-up for Mike Kristen's Cranky,
but used more readily available 35 spline yolks.
He can also make you a spool with the same spline.
I would guess Dave Stokers combo to be stronger being 35 spline,
but even with the US dollar very low, it will most likely cost more.
Most racers just make their own mounts, but USA can freight anything.
The BUS box needs an aftermarket intermediate housing to improve the shift,
and these are an additional cost over a bug box,
plus the labour to fit it.
Also most of these housings only suit 002 length boxes,
so will need either a 8mm spacer for 091 gears,
or convert internals to 002 gears(which is what I did).
Definitely go for the bus box if you can afford the axle conversion kit.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
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| posted on November 14th, 2008 at 01:41 PM |
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Thanks Dave,
I was mainly thinking 091 box as I'd read that they are stronger, but if you are using 002 gears is it easier just to get a 002 box?
Do I need to upgrade internals on either one or are they good to go?
I would assume to at least be going super diff with 4.37 R&P, then while its apart the intermediate housing can be done.
By the sounds of it what I would spend with a T1 box, I would spend on the bus axles & housing etc, but get added piece of mind in the process.
Its a car needing to be built from the ground up anyway, not modifying an already going one so mods are easier to incorporate.
One more thing, how big would you go on torsion bars?
The rear will be getting billet springplate retainers soon so would like to have torsions replaced at the same time.
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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dogo
A.k.a.: Noddy Goodboy
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| posted on November 14th, 2008 at 04:51 PM |
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091 gearbox
I have a 091 geabox that I no longer require. If you go in that direction. Dave
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HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
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| posted on November 14th, 2008 at 08:34 PM |
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Yeah for sure, just sending you a PM
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on November 15th, 2008 at 05:34 AM |
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Tortion bar size depends on car weight and engine torque.
The faster the car transfers weight the higher spring rate you want.
I have 30mm bars and with 1785 lbs could probably go higher.
A light car could go smaller than that.
I assume you meant 4.57 diff ratio?
You will want to fit an aftermarket 1st and 2nd mainshaft set as a minimum,
as well as a superdiff, or spool.
You can use the 091 case, and if you want 4.57
you will have to splice a 002 shaft to it so you can use it with 002 gears.
Otherwise an Albins 002 crownwheel and pinion,
or stay with the 002 ratio diff.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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Turbo54
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| posted on November 15th, 2008 at 09:04 PM |
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Greg, you are aiming for the same horsepower as I am. I could push my motor but at what I think 300 is a good round number.
I went type one with albins 1-2 and kimbi big tooth 3-4. Also a quaife and had nothing to start with. All up cost $4300. Albinis gears were $1500 and
the and the Quaife was $1500. I then had to buy the 3-4 and have the debs put it together with all new everything. Just to give to you a cost. I think
it was a little exy but then again I hope it never breaks. I am going to run weak axles as insurance.
Is this going into the 54? Turbo? Do you want to catch up soon?
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
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| posted on November 16th, 2008 at 07:18 PM |
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I figured a T1 box built to handle this sort of HP would cost about that, yeah that's pretty exxy. Good idea with weak axles though should probably
save the box, maybe you will get tired of replacing axles!!!
No the 54 will be more of a pure Cal Look and I don't expect to do much on that for a few years yet.
This is for one of my 59's, building it mainly as a drag car to take to Portland, I went this year and got pumped up about it, but hopefully the car
will be just street legal too. Its going to be turbo and a reasonable size stroker, no interior etc so it should be pretty fast, I can't wait.
I've started hacking up the body so its all starting to look like it will happen.
Yeah I was just thinking the other day we should catch up, PM me your number & email and I'll get in touch.
Cheers
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on November 16th, 2008 at 07:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
Tortion bar size depends on car weight and engine torque.
The faster the car transfers weight the higher spring rate you want.
I have 30mm bars and with 1785 lbs could probably go higher.
A light car could go smaller than that.
I assume you meant 4.57 diff ratio?
You will want to fit an aftermarket 1st and 2nd mainshaft set as a minimum,
as well as a superdiff, or spool.
You can use the 091 case, and if you want 4.57
you will have to splice a 002 shaft to it so you can use it with 002 gears.
Otherwise an Albins 002 crownwheel and pinion,
or stay with the 002 ratio diff.
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Hmmm, the main thing I thought with diff ratio is I probably don't want a 5. something. Will have to do some research as to what's available.
At the end of the day I want something that will do the 1/8th well but not run out of revs if I go down the quarter. Not too concerned about street
RPM for highway etc as it won't go there.
Is there any disadvantage to going heavy with the torsions? I guess why not go 30mm and be done with it. I 'spose its meant to squat a bit on the
launch. It will be a pretty light car, no interior etc in an early car with alum inside door panels & lexan windows. I have no idea what the
torque will be but hopefully its a lot
Thanks for the help
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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Turbo54
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on November 17th, 2008 at 04:54 PM |
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Greg,
you interested in a lightweight set of wheels for your beast?
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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HGFS
A.k.a.: Greg
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on November 19th, 2008 at 12:48 AM |
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Haha yeah of course I've seen your ad for the wheels. Almost replied a couple of times but.....
Problem is at the moment I'm trying to concentrate my limited budget on go fast gear.
Have a look at your emails
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5901
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| posted on November 21st, 2008 at 04:13 PM |
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My choice would be the 30mm short bars.
The lightest spring rate I would use for any drag car would be 28mm, and long IRS length.
This may equate to a 27 short bar.
SAW site has comparisons of spring rate.
Albins make 002 style diff gears in 4.57,
but stock ratios are
4.857(1800 bus)
5.429(late('73 up?) 1600 bus)
5.375(1600 bus)
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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