| [ Total Views: 1057 | Total Replies: 18 | Thread Id: 73043 ] |
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 vwkg
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| posted on November 22nd, 2008 at 09:05 PM |
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1600 Circuit Racer - Advice Please
Hey guys,
Been doing some reading but thought I'd post up here for a bit of advice as well.
I'm looking at putting together a 1600 circuit racer to run in a class up here in the NT.
The idea isn't to completely blow the competition away, we're aiming to achieve very similar performance from all the cars racing, sort of like the
Mini or the Gemini Series races.
Only involving different makes and models.
Am currently investigating what would be the best way of going about achieving the performance goals using a currently stock 1969 beetle.
I'm looking to achieve are:
50 - 60kW at the wheels, 5000-ish rpm
What would be the best way to go about achieving such figures. And is it possible to get such figures on a budget, without having to spend massive
money.
Have looked at possible options already, but I'd like to see what you guys would recommend.
I do not have to stay with the 1600cc displacement, I could go larger, though trying to stay at 1600 would be the first option.
Any info or help that can be provided will be greatly appreciated. Especially if someones been here and done similar before.
Regards
Sam
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trickysimon
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 02:48 AM |
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For that sort of power you are going to need more rpm and through a fair amount of money at it....if it even is possible from a 1600. Is forced
induction allowed?( turbo/super charger)
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johny rotten
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 06:40 AM |
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a std 1600 vw beetle engine is around 30hp at the wheels , thats a long way short of those numbers
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Joel
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 07:45 AM |
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for the ppl who only talk old money thats 70-80hp at the wheels hes chasing
not totally unobtainable, god knows i got 85hp from a blown totally stock 1600 and some blokes have cracked the 100 mark with a good turbo setup
to happilly spin 5k all day tho ur gonna have to do some head work, porting, springs etc fully balance the bottom end and a decxent cam for starters
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hellbugged
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 08:11 AM |
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yeah, that power is achievable............good ported heads and a cam to match your asking rpm would be the start............match up a good sized
exhaust, powerful ignition and your there...........don't forget your wallet tho ...........
my 1776 makes 98.5 hp @ wheels, on it's every day tune
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vwkg
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 10:10 AM |
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So hellbugged, do you think that what you mentioned would get the 1600 up to about the spec I'm chasing?
Or would it be advised that I look at a 1776 instead? Which would be better for me in terms of money, doing the work to the 1600 or getting a mild
1776?
I was starting to lean to the 1776 due to what I've seen and read, but I thought I'd ask the guys who know more than myself for a bit of advice.
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hellbugged
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 10:29 AM |
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power is all in the porting of the heads and cam !!!! spend your money there..........you can read my thread for details on valve sizes and lift etc
it took to achieve..........
another 1776 at dyno day made only 50 HP...............it was relatively standard compared to mine, and probably a lot cheaper $ too.............so
from there you can see it's not a capacity that makes power, but the combo!
yes i would go to 1776 as it wouldn't be much more than 1600 pistons and cylinders anyway..............for the same reason others will tell you to go
to 94's and run 1915cc
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 07:08 PM |
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Daimo's 98.5hp ATW 1776 produces 1hp/18cc engine capacity..............so for a 1600 using this same ratio then you would produce 89hp ATW, which is
around 65KW ATW.......more than you wanted.
1hp/18cc would also be around 106hp from a 1916 size motor, this is also easily achieved.
My street motor in the Ragtop produces 127hp or around 1hp/15cc.............so this would be a 106hp 1600 if it was the same ratio as my motor.
So Sam you should easily produce the hp numbers you want out of your 1600 
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cb john
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 08:21 PM |
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Most of F Vee 1600 engines make well over 60hp ATW.And that's with the stock cam, stock untouched heads, stock carby plus RESTRICTOR plate under the
carby...
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 Bizarre
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 09:00 PM |
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So how do they do that??
No belt?
Belt so loose it slips??
What exhaust ?? Stock??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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cb john
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 09:22 PM |
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Belt is relatively loose and generator is gutted...that accounts for some hp, exhaust is free. Very careful selection of the components is one of the
tricks. Porting is not allowed and all engine parts must meet the minimum prescribed weight. Gearbox is stock out of 1500 model
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johny rotten
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| posted on November 23rd, 2008 at 09:26 PM |
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Formula vee runs a control cam , NON std
also no muffler just a stinger
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vwkg
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 10:26 AM |
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So it definitely can be done which is definitely good to know.
So what do you think would be a realistic budget to put together a decent 1600 meeting or slightly exceeding what I'm after?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Daimo's 98.5hp ATW 1776 produces 1hp/18cc engine capacity..............so for a 1600 using this same ratio then you would produce 89hp ATW, which is
around 65KW ATW.......more than you wanted.
1hp/18cc would also be around 106hp from a 1916 size motor, this is also easily achieved.
My street motor in the Ragtop produces 127hp or around 1hp/15cc.............so this would be a 106hp 1600 if it was the same ratio as my motor.
So Sam you should easily produce the hp numbers you want out of your 1600
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Those are not bad number at all, pm sent
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hellbugged
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 11:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Daimo's 98.5hp ATW 1776 produces 1hp/18cc engine capacity..............so for a 1600 using this same ratio then you would produce 89hp ATW, which is
around 65KW ATW.......more than you wanted.
1hp/18cc would also be around 106hp from a 1916 size motor, this is also easily achieved.
My street motor in the Ragtop produces 127hp or around 1hp/15cc.............so this would be a 106hp 1600 if it was the same ratio as my motor.
So Sam you should easily produce the hp numbers you want out of your 1600
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interesting theory 
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johny rotten
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 03:39 PM |
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u need to use a 1770 cc to achieve that sort of power ,
A 1600 won't get there easily and would be a waste of time and money.
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cb john
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 05:22 PM |
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" Formula vee runs a control cam , NON std
also no muffler just a stinger "
Control cam in this case means that all Vees are running identical cam grind to factory specification...
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| posted on November 27th, 2008 at 06:53 AM |
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it isn't a factory spec cam for formula Vee. I should know my uncle specialises in building Vee engines. The best 1600 he has seen on the dyno so far
is 73hp atw. The worst he has had was built by someone else who bought it to him for tuning and set up and base dyno was 54hp. He managed to boost
this slug up to 66hp with a tinker in the right areas.
a decent engine builder will get you want you want HP wise but there are also a lot of "wanna be" engine builders who just simply slap it
together.
My uncle had a 1641cc in a bug that made 86hp atw. Headwork, cam, carbs, light wheel and decent exhaust.
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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cb john
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| posted on November 27th, 2008 at 08:03 AM |
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Perhaps I didn't put it clearly enough.There is no factory spec for a Vee cam, it is a spec for the stock cam and that is what is used.I'm sure that
your uncle John would know that..
But this is only to say, that 1600 engine is capable of decent hp after correct choice of components and correct assembly...that's all...
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Joel
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| posted on November 27th, 2008 at 09:33 PM |
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shame u cant really go force fed cos heres some nice figures
1600 single port turbo
140.9HP @ 5237RPM
158TQ @ 4555 RPM
13.2 @ 109.44MPH on the rollers
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