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 alien8
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 posted on November 24th, 2008 at 08:08 PM |
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For those who are running adj. struts
Where did you relocate the flexible brake hose mounting bracket? Its looking a little tight to mount it in a similar position on the adjustables.
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Brad
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 08:14 PM |
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I have MaXX Struts from topline and they come with a bolt on bracket to suit the application.
I will be selling these in the near future if that helps.
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alien8
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 09:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
I have MaXX Struts from topline and they come with a bolt on bracket to suit the application.
I will be selling these in the near future if that helps.
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The brackets or the struts?
I contacted Topline about their adjustables but I ended up going with the Empi adjustables and inserts. If the $A was like it was 6 months ago I would
of bought Topline but the Empi's were just way cheaper. You do hear a lot of good things about the Topline gear though. I would really like their
caster-fix bushes and a camber/control arm kit.
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Brad
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 09:36 PM |
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Both, what do the empi struts look like ? What were the worth ?
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alien8
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| posted on November 24th, 2008 at 10:02 PM |
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These are the Empi's except I got the 3 bolt 1302's.
$170 for the strut pair and
$80 each for the inserts.
I am intrested in the brackets. Do they mount around the strut tube?
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 09:53 AM |
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Hi
So do they still use the big springs on the empi struts? On my V force struts I just welded the old tab in a suitable position.
Steve
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 10:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
So do they still use the big springs on the empi struts? On my V force struts I just welded the old tab in a suitable position.
Steve
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Yeah, just the stock's but I think you can get lowered coils for them to.
With the adjustables on the lower setting there's not much room to weld the tabs on ,or what I should say is there's not enough room to bend the
flexible brake hose under the lower perch.
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 vw54
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 12:41 PM |
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I think you will have a few problems with the EMPI strut housings
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 Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 06:17 PM |
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Its not lowered springs you are after - it is thinner
They have a fat base - so they take stock springs.
All you will do is lower your beetle for $170+$80*2=$330
Now - This is CHEAP compared to a beam
The best you can do now is try and get hour glass springs
This will allow you to run a wider wheel that doesnt foul the spring
The benefit of a strut (like V Force - which i have) is you can run wider wheels.
The springs are going to cost another $100 US http://www.toplineparts.com/frameset.html
This is ....$150 + post
Say $300 landed
That is $650 and inferio to a V Force style strut
Cheaper but no where near as good
I am running a 205 wheel with a 50ET
Rekon this is too much by 15mm
With the right ET wheels and maybe rolling the lip i reckon i would get a 225 under a stock guard
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Joel
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 06:34 PM |
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those empi ones are just a copy of toplines versa-strut but would be made thinner metal and sweatshop welding jobs
u can make narrow coils out of them but as Barry said they wont be as good as richards
if u need narrow spring struts on the cheap what u can try is the rear springs and retainers from an EF Civic hatch or CRX thats 88-91 models
the spring is only about 80mm vs superbug 120mm
the honda top rubber spring holder sits neatly in the bottom spring cup on superbug struts and the bottom honda spring cup welds to the upper vw
spring holder
not a pretty solution but it works with stock struts so i assume it would with those empi struts
i havent tried it but know a few ppl that have
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vw54
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 06:35 PM |
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return the Empi's for a refund
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
I think you will have a few problems with the EMPI strut housings
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Can you elaborate?
They do look like a copy of the Topline Versa struts.
I am running 165 15's so I don't need a smaller diameter coil, but new coils would be stellar. I just need to relocate the brake line.
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:16 PM |
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"My" concern with these is i "think" the coil cup is held in place with a circlip??
Correct me if i am wrong
I dont understand the bkake clip question
Mine is in the same place
No problem
If you have 3 bolt bases they are better in the sense they are not cut
Again "my" concern with the way some people do 2 bolts is cutting and welding the tube on the clamp
V Force bore the original clamp amd slide the existing tube down and then weld it
Futue te ipsum!!!
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
Its not lowered springs you are after - it is thinner
They have a fat base - so they take stock springs.
All you will do is lower your beetle for $170+$80*2=$330
Now - This is CHEAP compared to a beam
The best you can do now is try and get hour glass springs
This will allow you to run a wider wheel that doesnt foul the spring
The benefit of a strut (like V Force - which i have) is you can run wider wheels.
The springs are going to cost another $100 US http://www.toplineparts.com/frameset.html
This is ....$150 + post
Say $300 landed
That is $650 and inferio to a V Force style strut
Cheaper but no where near as good
I am running a 205 wheel with a 50ET
Rekon this is too much by 15mm
With the right ET wheels and maybe rolling the lip i reckon i would get a 225 under a stock guard
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Ok, I get it now . Dam! I had to read that a few times.
I didn't factor in new coils as I was going to use the old stock one's with the Empi struts.
How much is a V force setup for adjus. struts, inserts and coils?
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:18 PM |
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These are V Force 3 bollters
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:20 PM |
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Best to call Richard on 0408 991 247
Starts around a grand and goes up depending on what you want
Futue te ipsum!!!
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
"My" concern with these is i "think" the coil cup is held in place with a circlip??
Correct me if i am wrong
I dont understand the bkake clip question
Mine is in the same place
No problem
If you have 3 bolt bases they are better in the sense they are not cut
Again "my" concern with the way some people do 2 bolts is cutting and welding the tube on the clamp
V Force bore the original clamp amd slide the existing tube down and then weld it
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Yes, the perches are held in place with a circlip. I dont know about this? But I was a little shocked when I first saw how the perches are held in
place. Hey, I got them mail order, Ive never seen them prior to this. Hmm Empi.
As for the brake thing. I am asking where to put the flexible brake hose mount as there is not enough room to mount it on the strut tube below the
adjustable perch.
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
These are V Force 3 bollters
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Arrr, the difference with these is the lower perch is alot smaller than the Empi's hence the reason the V force don't have clearence issues with
the flexible brake hose. It was doing my head in why I seem to be the only one with this problem.
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barls
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 07:51 PM |
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can highly recommend the v force ones as they are what i upgraded to from my lowered stock struts
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Brad
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 08:00 PM |
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mmmm interesting read. I looked at going with the V Force struts and the end result was I buoght MaXX Struts and now I am importing then from Topline
as I was very happy with them as far as value for money and service went. A pair of MaXX struys complete will set you back $795 for the 3 bolt units
to suit you car. These have an 80mm coild and allow plenty of clearance for larger tyres.
I will get some pictures posted of them. They use a clip to hold the lower perch in place like the empi ones. This is then covered with the tappered
bottom perch making it impossible for it to come off. The only draw back of this design compared to the style V-Force sell is that you need to drop
the strut top out to adjust them up and down. With the thread type you can just jack the car up and you get more finite settings as you car turn the
mount up and down as opposed to the clip style which restricts you to 12mm incriments.
That being said have a look around at the comments on the MaXX struts. I haven't seen anyone with any issues yet. Also have a look around at the
V-Force ones and see what people say.
I think you are on a winner either way. In fact stock ones cut and welded are better than Empi crap.
I will also post some pictures of the brake line retainers, the clip onto the bottom leg and have a bolt holding them in place.
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 08:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
The only draw back of this design compared to the style V-Force sell is that you need to drop the strut top out to adjust them up and down. With the
thread type you can just jack the car up and you get more finite settings as you car turn the mount up and down as opposed to the clip style which
restricts you to 12mm incriments.
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mmm sort of agree
To me the adjustment comes by changing the springs
I like to see the spring held when on full travel - ie jack the car up and the sprin is held. Not loose.
I "think" i have a 10" spring in there at the moment with a helper spring.
The helper squashes to about 1 or 2 inches
I have seen flat helpers that squash to 1/4"
I dont like just lowering the perch/cup as i get concerned the spring can unseat on a decent speed bump
Maybe worry too much
comments??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 08:16 PM |
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Brad
The only info i have is from SBO
My only comment on Maxx is in the way the insert is held.
Supe talks of wrapping a leather belt bit around the insert to hold it?? Comments??
$$$ they are VERY good value
What inserts do they come with??
Boge??
I have always been shot down when trying to find out what spring rating they come with
My V Force are 130lbs??
the SBO boys seem to think this is WAY over and should be 60 or 80
When Richard spoke to .....mmm forgot name - Mr Topline... they agreed to differ.
They measure different over there
Richard generally uses King springs and take the ratings from their data sheets
Futue te ipsum!!!
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grumble
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 08:37 PM |
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I say you can't beat dealing with a local because if there is a problem down the line he will look after you,try doing this with someone from
overseas and see how the system works. I have no problems with dealing with guys like Richard from V Force because he will give you as much
information as he can regardless whether he sells the bits or not. An even better reason is he supports the local VW scene. Les
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alien8
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 08:42 PM |
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Ok now I am really spewing I got the Empi's.
Should I be really worried that these thing are going to bend or snap?
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Brad
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| posted on November 25th, 2008 at 11:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
I say you can't beat dealing with a local because if there is a problem down the line he will look after you,try doing this with someone from
overseas and see how the system works. I have no problems with dealing with guys like Richard from V Force because he will give you as much
information as he can regardless whether he sells the bits or not. An even better reason is he supports the local VW scene. Les
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I am glade to hear you had good experiences, there are more than a few on here who have not and will never shop local for superbug parts again. I
myself am one of these which is why I started looking at the toplone stuff.
Bizarre, I hear what you are saying about colis and mounts but if you have a look at a lot of strut / coil cars this is not the case. The coils in my
Landcruiser for example pretty much fall out when you put it on the hoist. In relation to a lowered bug with adjustable struts where the lower perch
has been moved down to reduce ride height, I agree as you reduce the pre load you increase the chance of the spring poping off as such and rising up
onto the lip of the lower mount. Spring retainers remove this as an issue and are supplied with the kits I will be selling.
With the technology out there these days in spring world a progressive spring which is correctly rated is pretty easy to come by and not real
expensive. I am currently talking to a local spring company to do just this with a flexy or variable rate coil to suit. I should have these availible
about 2 or 3 mths after I finish my L Bug as I need a better test rig to give them abuse to proof the design idea and rate specs.
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alien8
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| posted on November 26th, 2008 at 12:04 AM |
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Sounds pretty good Brad. I will be needing new coils in a couple of months. Will you be stocking the swaybar castor bushes and camber bushes that
Topline offer?
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vw54
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| posted on November 26th, 2008 at 07:13 AM |
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Whats wrong with the Empis same as nearly all the empi products they dont work or leak or are missing a part like the brake clip or the
strut towers
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Joel
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| posted on November 26th, 2008 at 08:12 AM |
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supers have naturally long springs compared to other cars
even when mine was 45mm off the ground running lowest setting with .......cough...... cut springs.... it wasnt even close to being loose in the cups
when jacked up
u would need to chop alot out b4 being loose would be a problem and bigger problem than that would be they wouldnt seat properly in the cups
have a read of
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=329584
guy from SBO runs them and his super is stupidly low too
a good point was made:
EMPI has sold a bunch of their adjustable struts, and I've never heard of them breaking. We all know that if it did happen, it would be plastered all
over this site.
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Bizarre
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| posted on November 26th, 2008 at 02:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
even when mine was 45mm off the ground running lowest setting with .......cough...... cut springs.... it wasnt even close to being loose in the cups
when jacked up
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The difference is the stock spring is under compression when bolted together "i believe"
Hence the need for clamps when you pull them apart
This is not the case with my V Force struts
The spring is in a natural state when at rest
So at full jacking the stock spring is still in compression where as mine is not
So ANY lowering of the cup loosens the spring
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Brad
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| posted on November 26th, 2008 at 02:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
even when mine was 45mm off the ground running lowest setting with .......cough...... cut springs.... it wasnt even close to being loose in the cups
when jacked up
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The difference is the stock spring is under compression when bolted together "i believe"
Hence the need for clamps when you pull them apart
This is not the case with my V Force struts
The spring is in a natural state when at rest
So at full jacking the stock spring is still in compression where as mine is not
So ANY lowering of the cup loosens the spring
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The MaXX Struts are the same. When you lower then the spring flopes around
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