| [ Total Views: 792 | Total Replies: 22 | Thread Id: 74019 ] |
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 Mick058
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 07:28 AM |
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Clutch/gearbox/IRS conversion question
i seem to have some kind of issue with my clutch.
This is what i know: MY car is a 58 beetle shell on a 68 pan. Did 68 pans come in IRS or is this an autopan (not sure of the difference). It could
also be possible that an IRS conversion was done to the 68 pan???
I bought a 1916 pobjoy, the base model, and my clutch would slip. Stan said this was odd as he checked the clutch and it seemed ok - he'd never had
issues with a standard clutch on a base 1916.
Others who'd driven the car or felt the clutch said it felt odd. I change the clutch and put in a 1700 (i think it was) kennedy clutch in.
The clutch doesn't appear to slip anymore as far as i can tell, but it still doesn't feel right. Others agree it feels odd.
Im lost as to what mod's have been made to the 68 pan and as to where the problem lie's.
Can anybody help with what needs to be done?
I had taken it to a vw shop but they didn't seem to helpful. I also don't want to pay them for hours of 'finding' work.
Can anyone help/suggest something?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 07:41 AM |
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loose cable tube in the tunnel?...........having repaired the front and rear points long ago, i only recently added a "middle" braket and it is a
world of difference for clutch feel consistency and operation..............
hows the bowden tube at the back? new with plenty of bend?
i imagine your engine mounts are good as it's a fresh build
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 07:54 AM |
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What is it that feels odd about it ???
Like Daimo says a loose cable in the tunnel would be the most obvious guess - could make the pedal feel sort of uneven. Problems with the bowden tube
or engine mounts usually shows up as shudder. Then there's the usual thing with a clutch cable that's on the way out, where keeps stretching before
finally letting go.
Don't see how any of them would cause slip though...
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Mick058
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 07:57 AM |
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Craig had said the cable may be twirling around the inside of the tube, as if there is too much slack or something - problem is i don't know exactly
what to look for.
Would photos help at all?
Was a 68 pan IRS?
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Mick058
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 07:59 AM |
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When the standard clutch was in, the pedal was very soft.
It feels as if it doesn't come back the whole way - like its not returning the pedal properly.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 08:17 AM |
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Hi Mick
Do you want me to take it for a drive on the weekend?
Steve
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Mick058
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 08:19 AM |
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hey Steve, another opinion would be great. This weekend i'm taking my wife down the coast but the following weekend would be good if your around - i
thinks thats Australia day long weekend.
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1303Steve
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 08:32 AM |
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Hi Mick
That will be OK. I'm on day shift, get off around 3pm, call me and we can make arrangements. 0439 133 354
Steve
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 08:40 AM |
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 go AVD!.........keep us informed, always like to hear of the
findings
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Mick058
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 09:18 AM |
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Sounds good Steve - will give you a buzz later next week.
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ctefeh
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 09:28 PM |
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Mick058,
68 Semi Auto's were BJ/IRS, but NO clutch tube installed. Someone would have to fab it up. Does it have double springplates? Can't think
of any other clues other than checking the tunnel for signs of cut 'n' shut.
A problem (anecdotal) can be that someone used plain steel tube, not heavy wall pipe, for the clutch tube when fitting it up.
Just a possibility...
Regards
Ctefeh
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Adsman
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| posted on January 13th, 2009 at 11:57 PM |
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The pedal can be slow to return if the bowden tube is damaged causing the clutch to slip a bit. Another spot it can catch is upfront where the cable
enters the tube. I had a build up of carpet in mine as the previous owner never fitted the cover.
Keep us posted.
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Mick058
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:07 AM |
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Cheers lads, i think it may have been a 68 semi auto pan then. Can you tell from the chassis number if it was a semi auto pan or not?
Are there any other advantages to this type of pan?
ctefeh, can you explain what the consequences of the plain steel tube would be? would it wear through quicker from the cable constantly running up and
down? The car has only just been on the road for 9mnths, maybe this could be a problem down the track.
Is the bowden tube the conduit the cable runs through 'Adsman'?
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:15 AM |
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bowden is the "soft" rubberised tube between chassis and clutch arm........
the semi auto pans are advantage because they are BJ/IRS from factory.........
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vwsteve
A.k.a.: steve
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:29 AM |
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.
if the tube in the tunnel is loose, eventually it will crack usually in the middle creating a pain in the butt job to fix, its a fairly common
problem.On the other hand if it was an auto irs pan, whoever converted it to manual and put the clutch tube in may not have welded it in
correctly(possible)
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Mick058
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:30 AM |
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oh ok, similar to the chassis to tinware on the accelerator cable?
what happens if you don't have the bowden tube?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:48 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
oh ok, similar to the chassis to tinware on the accelerator cable?
what happens if you don't have the bowden tube?
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it runs up the side of the gearbox, the last piece that the cable travels through............it would have to be there, just it's condition, and
amount of bend could be part of your issues.
Steve will sort it for you.........patience
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Mick058
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 07:53 AM |
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yes patience - cheers mate. good to trouble shoot and learn a few things at the same time 
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ctefeh
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| posted on January 14th, 2009 at 08:54 PM |
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Mick058,
Rexy pretty much nailed one of the reasons. Suspect welds and holding power thereof. Thin stuff will flex (it's a pretty long tube..) and
will exacerbate any weld problems you could have (or might soon!) as well as doing weirdo things to clutch engagement. Hence heavy wall pipe. No
flexing and you can run serious welds on it and it'll resist cable sawing better too.
HTH
Ctefeh
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Mick058
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| posted on January 15th, 2009 at 07:03 AM |
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thanks for the feedback guys - will have a look with Steve and see what we can work out.
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dangerous
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| posted on January 15th, 2009 at 09:08 AM |
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Next time you have the engine out,
make sure that you are using the correct pressure plate
for your late style throw out bearing.
If you have the early pressure plate with a ring attached to the fingers,
you will have incorrect geometry.
You may not have any free play adjustment at all,
and thus the reason for the stock pressure plate slipping.
The ring that is attached to the fingers on the earlyer clitches can be removed.
On the Kennedy, they all have the ring, and on late cars it must be removed.(simple clip)
On stock VW clutches the ring can be removed but only once.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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Mick058
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| posted on January 15th, 2009 at 09:26 AM |
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Cheers Dave, will check with Craig Torrens aswell as we've had the engine out and he'd may know the answer to that.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 17th, 2009 at 09:08 PM |
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we dont have a tube in our auto pan its been like that for20 years, its just a bitch to fit cable. ,
Take the cover off the front and take a picture up the tunnel its amazing what you can see with a digital camera.
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