| [ Total Views: 949 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 76121 ] |
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 Sometimeman
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| posted on April 23rd, 2009 at 07:39 PM |
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Rear main seal
Ah, There is no rest. Put motor back together, very carefully. Went for drive of about 150 K's and it ran pretty well I thought, However after
it sat sat for a while ie over lunch it started to bleed... Have not tried it again yet. I am sure it is engine oil, coming from the connection to the
gearbox. We used a seal from Vintage, the old one was buckled. I think we put the seal in correctly but have since heard that it should be recessed
about 3mm, Now I can't recall if we did that, perhaps just flush with the casing. Is it possible the leak is just excess from the installation that
warmed up then found its way out....Or am I being really wildly optimistic?
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1500S
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| posted on April 23rd, 2009 at 09:10 PM |
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Optimistic!!! Volkswagen designed it to be flush with the case end. If that's how you have it then it's right. The VW oil seal installation
tool ensures that the seal is pushed flush. If it's in 3mm then it's assembled wrong.. What is the condition of the seal surface on the
flywheel?
DH
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silver
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| posted on April 23rd, 2009 at 09:11 PM |
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What model is it?? did you put the O'ring in the fly wheel??
Keeping it real !
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 vw54
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 07:05 AM |
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did you polish the seal lip area on the flywheel if its grooved it will leak
and did you fit the oring as well
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Sometimeman
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 11:54 AM |
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Hi, It is a 65 I believe. There was no O ring. The information re the 3mm came from Korrine at vintage, I rang re some more parts and she asked
the 'guys out the back' They also said some early flywheels did not have the O ring....Will one fit mine and if so what size and where does it go?
The flywheel was given a smmothing to make sure there were no grooves, though it was very good as it was. None of the books I have mention an O
ring...I have Henry Elfrink, Autobooks by ken Hall, Gregorys and Scientific Publications....How come They don't mention the ring? Thanks Guys
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Sometimeman
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 12:18 PM |
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This guy is a dill... I SHOULD have looked closer...Now I see It.... Duh
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pod
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 06:05 PM |
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yep, its usually squashed flat into the corner and hard as a rock ,easy to miss
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grumble
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 07:13 PM |
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The other possibility is that the No 1 main bearing is floating in the crankcase,this is a major source of oil leaks.
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Menangler
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 09:18 PM |
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Flywheel oil seal flush with the case??? that is not right.
It needs to be pushed in as far as it will go, until the seal bottoms out in the case and the factory tool will do that, the outside of the seal will
end up being about 3mm further into the case not flush.
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1500S
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| posted on April 24th, 2009 at 11:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Menangler
Flywheel oil seal flush with the case??? that is not right.
It needs to be pushed in as far as it will go, until the seal bottoms out in the case and the factory tool will do that, the outside of the seal will
end up being about 3mm further into the case not flush.
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Install tools vary from flush to 1.5mm max below face. With the seal flush there is still clearance on the radius of the flywheel and the seal. Many
of the VW trained mechanics of the 60s used a piece of smooth timber for their "home installer" to drive the seal flush with the case.
Their engines didn't leak oil back then.
The main cause of leaks here are:
1. The seal damaged due to poor installation by using a hammer
2. The flywheel has a groove worn into it.
3. Too much end float or loose No. 1 bearing in case.
4. Blocked drain hole from front cavity to sump due to use of sealant. Is this hole clear? If not the pressure will build up and oil will bypass
the seal.
There is no need to use any sealant on the seal/case bore. Also, the reason many push the seal into the bore further (3mm) if it will go that far is
to get the lip onto a clean surface of the flywheel to provide a seal. Better to have the surface machined if the groove has just started. The
energised type of seal we use will seal still if the diameter is a few thou undersize.
DH
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vw54
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| posted on April 25th, 2009 at 06:39 AM |
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did you check the end float
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dangerous
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| posted on April 25th, 2009 at 01:03 PM |
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Just for reference I always install mine flush.
Sometimes if they are set in too far,
the cavity that remains is too small
and the oil can build up insude that cavity very fast at high rpm....even if the drain back hole is clear.
The problem can be agrivated with excessive oil clearance in the rear journal (did you check oil clearances?).
This is true for boat anchors that have a pulley seal too, (justkidding).
If the FW and crank is an early one without the O-ring it must use a paper gasket.
Although I am sure modern technolog has produced a sealant that will do the same job, better.
Naturally end float should be checked and set when ever you have the engine apart.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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Joel
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| posted on April 25th, 2009 at 04:34 PM |
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well everyone knows i tap mine in just flush........
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=58377#pid553860
and none of them are leaking yet
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1500S
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| posted on April 25th, 2009 at 05:59 PM |
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Good info in that post Joel.
DH
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bigrudi
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| posted on April 25th, 2009 at 10:46 PM |
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leaking main
also check where the seal sits in the case someone may have damaged this area when removing the old seal Rudi
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on April 26th, 2009 at 01:17 PM |
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Good stuff Joel.
Just another personal preference thng....,
I like to do the end float before I fit the seal.
This has a few benefits,
one of which avoids the seal being damaged
trying to get the shims past the lip.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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Menangler
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| posted on May 2nd, 2009 at 07:08 PM |
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The following is word for word from the factory service manual;
Install new oil seal, using Tool VW 204. screw the tool into crankshaft and insert oil seal by tightening the guide piece, The oil seal must
bed squarely on the bottom of its resess.
This leaves the oil seal sitting about 2mm inside the case and the inside sealing lip of the seal on the correct part of the flywheel, if everything
is in good condition it won't leak.
Also VW did a dealer rework sometime in the '70s and enlarged the oil return hole in the case behind the oil seal as there was problems with oil not
returning to the sump fast enough and building up behind the seal and leaking, this was done by removing the engine, flywheel, oil seal, using a drill
to enlarge the hole, cleaning up the mess!! fitting a new oil seal then putting everything back together and leaky rear main oil seal problem fixed.
One of out old local Mechanics worked for Pound Motors in Melbourne in the 70's and did 100's of them as an apprentice.
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
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Sometimeman
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| posted on May 7th, 2009 at 05:31 PM |
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Thanks for all the good advice everyone. The final ???? solution seems to have been to put a Speedy Sleeve on the flywheel as it was felt that there
was not enough pressure on the seal.. Went for a 100 mile drive and all seems well so far....................................However when I got home
and left the car overnight I was greeted with 2 oil leaks and they are from the gearbox...........I think I now need a new thread, so ever onward.
Cheers Ian
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