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 mshane124
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| posted on July 12th, 2009 at 10:03 PM |
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Beach buggy - subaru conversion questions
Hi all,
I looking at building a VW beach buggy and installing a V4 sti engine/gearbox. I have some questions about completing the conversion. This is the
first conversion that I am completing and I am unsure on a few things
How would the drive train be setup
What steering modifications do I have to do the get the engine to work
Do I use the subaru suspension or do I use the VW setup
Will the gearbox work
Where is the best place to get parts
What other adapters to I need
All information would be greatly appreciated
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mshane124
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| posted on July 12th, 2009 at 10:04 PM |
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Sorry guys, also another question about the cooling setup
Thanks
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seagull
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 01:22 AM |
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V4 hey ( ? )
This is the way to go have a look at the link , subaru mid mount
The way to do it is to put the motor behind the rear seat, if you use the manual gear box V4 ( are you 100% sure its V4 ? ) your wasting the gear box
if you sit the box out the rear. You can purchase a delete rear drive kit for thse boxes now days. The big issue you will have is the turbo is to big
for the motor in the sand it comes on boost to far in the rev range and when it does come on your ground speed , your flying !
the link will give you some ideas !~ seagull
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.abacus.com.au/~theedge/i...
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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mshane124
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 10:19 AM |
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Seagull,
The buggy will be for road use. I found a site that provides some information about the engine mounting but im unsure how to do it. I am not very
mechanically minded as my friend who is an engineer/mechanic will be doing most of the work. I need to find out this infomation so we can establish a
plan for the build. The gearbox is a Version 4 to suit the Version 4 98 STI engine.
The PDF on the site is http://www.vwkd.co.uk/HOWTO/VWKD_HOW_TO.PDF
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 06:55 PM |
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this is the common buggy conversion
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=6645031&__sid=...
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seagull
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 08:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mshane124
Seagull,
The buggy will be for road use. I found a site that provides some information about the engine mounting but im unsure how to do it. I am not very
mechanically minded as my friend who is an engineer/mechanic will be doing most of the work. I need to find out this infomation so we can establish a
plan for the build. The gearbox is a Version 4 to suit the Version 4 98 STI engine.
The PDF on the site is http://www.vwkd.co.uk/HOWTO/VWKD_HOW_TO.PDF
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Some of the V4 gearboxes have a helical LSD to the front diff & DCCD center diff . The gear boxes sell for around $4000.00 on there own.
a V4 motor around $4500.00 ,
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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mshane124
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 09:06 PM |
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Ian
Thanks for the info. I checked it out and it has provided me with some useful info.
Cheers
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mshane124
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 09:07 PM |
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Seagull
I am about to pickup the gearbox and engine for $4500. What is a helical lsd?
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ratbug
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 09:10 PM |
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Hey there, are you in the UK, sounds like you may be by posting the UK link?
The easiest way is to use VW running gear, chassis, suspension, gearbox, driveline etc. Little modifications will need to be done, just an adpator
plate between the VW gearbox and the subaru motor, then of course you have the radiator and wiring associated with a modern watercooled engine.
Someone should buy that buggy that ian posted... hehe... It is mine, my first buggy and it was subaru powered. I have now built another with the 2ltr
turbo motor. Details at http://dunebuggyandbajaadventures.freeforums.org/my-current-rat-buggy-and-limo-build-t33.html
In short I have fairly standard vw suspension, Kombi gearbox and CV's (stronger and better ratios with bigger tyres), I put the radiator at the back
on both buggies, keeps the pipework simple and is easy to bleed the air out of, however a lot of guys stick them in the front with good results too,
better airflow, but more coolant, less protected if you like going offroad. There is also a member (Original Manx) on the buggy forums above and
TheSamba (with writeup) attempting a 4wd manx, using the subaru gearbox. I have a gut feeling these could be the next wave in unique buggy builds, and
thr next step from just sticking a subaru motor in.
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mshane124
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 09:21 PM |
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ratbug
That is exactly what I want to build. Very nice work...
I would be looking to complete the build and try to utilise the Subaru AWD system. But what I am working on and what is puzzling me is how can I
achieve this and get it to work. Do you have any links at all?
I'm situated in Victoria, AUS
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ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
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| posted on July 13th, 2009 at 10:39 PM |
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I think you need to look at this link!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=271863&sid=12acb2f273e472c620eff68f534ef3b2
The main problem in using the subi gearbox is because the engine orientation will be 180deg from normal (at the back fo the car), you will have 5
reverse gears and 1 forward gear, in other words run backwards. I'm not much of an expert on box's, but original manx is going down the path of
providing a solution (may not be cheap though). He is also going 4wd, so putting a prop shaft up the middle and putting a modified rear diff in the
front with modified front suspension. If your happy to stay rear wheel drive it will simplify things for you somewhat, but still need to tackle the
gearbox issue.
End of the the day though, a modern 5speed subaru gearbox is designed for the engine power and will probably feel better than a VW one.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on July 15th, 2009 at 04:41 PM |
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There's a whole bunch of questions that need to be asked re the overall chassis before you decide to go making it AWD. That is, in a word,
"dynamics". Having watched a leonie and then a wrx in action I can say, Subaru worked very hard to get the WRX right in terms of chassis dynamics.
Part of that was differential setup and power transfere (front rear). I'm no expert on the workings of this, but what you are aiming to do with
putting an STi drive train in a buggy provides you with all of the same challenges but without the support of a multinational car company. I'm not
saying it can't be done, but there are better ways to spend the same money often.
ask yourself this question before you spend anything (more) or do anything else.
"what specifically am I going to use this car for?"
you can only have measurable outcomes if you can answer this question in a few phrases. You've said so far...
| Quote: | "The buggy will be
for road use"
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I don't consider this to be specific enough. What road, how fast, motorsport yes/no, if so what class, number of seats/passengers; These all need to
be worked out and all effect the outcome and whether it's a success.
My current car has this aim; "to be competitive in club dirt khanas 12 times a year and stayed registered for basic transport duties." I
don't consider it to be a success in the first of these aims.
The other thing worth saying at this point is, dune buggies (and all aircooled VWs/porsches) have some basic handling/suspension design flaws that can
sabotage the rest of the car. There are easy solutions to some of these issues, but the solutions make registration more complex. This is because they
jetison key bits of what would be considered a "classic style of buggy". I reckon if you want to see what a fast street AWD buggy should work like,
look at a porsche carrera4 cabrio and that is a good starting point. Meeting that will involve a similar setup in terms of chassis and weight
distribution. Read every article you can find on AWD porsches to see what journos have said about their dramas and what they need to work properly.
Sorry for the essay, but if you figure this out now, it will save you a lot of cash and heartache. See, anyone can fit a 300hp turbo motor to buggy.
Whether it's a success as a total car is another dilemma altogether.
P.s. I really think turning the subaru box upside down is the answer to using it in the back of the car, although you need to figure out oil supply
well. Start talking to the rally guys for answers to this question I reckon. MRT (Middleton Rally Team) would be a good start.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 16th, 2009 at 07:59 AM |
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I'm with seagull, the best solution would be to midmount it. Then you don't get the 5 reverse 1 forward gear problem.
Mid-mounted should make it handle much better. Buggies tend to understeer a lot when pushed hard even with the VW motor out the back.
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pete wood
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| posted on July 16th, 2009 at 09:32 AM |
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ditto, to that. but if you must go rearmount and awd, then start looking at porsches.
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ttriebler
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| posted on July 16th, 2009 at 09:53 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete woodP.s. I really think turning the subaru box upside down is the answer to using it in the back of the car, although you need to
figure out oil supply well. Start talking to the rally guys for answers to this question I reckon. MRT (Middleton Rally Team) would be a good start.
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Don't waste your time talking to MRT. I had a long chat to Brett at MRT when I started my project and 'disinterested' comes to mind. They are only
keen to do work that is easy and turns over lots of $$$$ like tuning your fully sick Subaru on their dyno.
What Pete says is right though, do lots and lots of research and think about what a Porsche Carrerra 4 is set up like, because that's basically what
you're building. And by the time it's done, will have cost about the same I reckon. You need perserverance. Good luck and if you need any help keep
asking.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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pete wood
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| posted on July 17th, 2009 at 08:20 AM |
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don't tell Brett what you are putting it in, just tell him you have to run the box dry sumped for reasons of the car having to operate at extreme
angles. 
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