Subject: please help me identify models - late type1
stilson
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 01:02 AM
please help me identify models - late type1
Hello, after convincing my Dad to buy a bug for my sister,
and my offroad volvo 240 purchased by a perhaps over eager friend, it is time for me to begin a mild offroad Beetle project.
I have had a weeklong search and now feel more aware of what's available (if a little confused) and my girlfriend is angry at me and its time to ask
for some help.
I think I want a disc brake ball joint / IRS 1500 4sp manual
1. did this combo come with a 1600?
2. how can I ensure im not looking at a superbug (on ebay or in paper) ie easy question to ask owners who may not know what a mcpherson strut is?
3. what is the diff between 1302s and 1302l s =sport l= luxury?
4. what years can I narrow my search to, 68-76?
5.can someone please post pics of kingpin, balljoint, super ,trailing arm, irs suspension to help noobs like myself
sorry for the long post,
cheers Seanan
p.s. the rat rod pics post is ace
Biting off more than I can chew...
Phil74Camper
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 07:50 AM
To answer your questions:
1. The only Beetle that came with disc brake ball joint front, and IRS 4-speed rear, was the 1976. It has the flat windscreen and blinkers in the
bumper. You won't find many of them around nowadays as they were only made in Melbourne until July 1976, when production ended. Only 1,159 were sold
in 1976 (and another 130 in 1977) in the whole of Australia.
2. Superbugs have a 'bulge-ier' front bonnet, which you recognise after a while. Otherwise get the owner to look behind the front wheels - if he
sees a coil spring, it's a MacPherson strut. Another way is to ask him about how the spare tyre in the front boot sits - normal Beetles have an
upright spare tyre. Superbug spares lay completely flat.
3. You are confusing yourself with overseas terms. I wish people on this forum would NOT use '1302' and '1303' to describe these cars, as they
weren't used in Australia and it confuses non-VW people. Both of those numbers refer to Superbugs, which are the Beetles with bulgy front and
Macpherson strut suspension. There were two different kinds. The first model was called the 'Superbug S', which was sold here from 1971 to 1973. It
had a flat windscreen, normal Beetle dash and a long, bulgy bonnet. In Australia it only came with a 1600cc 60hp engine. In the USA it was called the
'Super Beetle', but in Europe and the UK it was called the 'VW 1302'. In Europe you had a choice of 1200 or 1600cc engines; the basic one was 1200
and the 1302 'S' was 1600. THIS DOESN"T APPLY TO AUSTRALIA. Here we only got the 1600cc 'Superbug S'. Then, in 1973, it was replaced by the
'Superbug L'. This also only came in 1600cc form. It had a wide, curved windscreen 40% bigger than before, new design dashboard and a shorter curvy
bonnet. In Europe this was called the 'VW 1303', and again there you could have a 1200 or 1600 version, with the 1600 called the '1303 S'. NOT IN
AUSTRALIA. Here, they only sold the 1600cc 'Superbug L'. This was discontinued in late 1975. VW Australia aso sold a basic '1300' swing-axle ball
joint drum Beetle alongside the Superbug S and L, from 1971 to 1975.
4. There is nothing wrong with swing-axle Beetles for 'mild offroad', so really anything after 1968 (12-volt) is OK. The '68-'70 cars had 1500cc
engines originally; the '71-75 ball joint cars had 1300cc engines (and front drums), while the '76 had all the goodies (rear IRS, front ball joint
and discs, 1600cc engine).
Phil74Camper
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 08:50 AM
This is the Superbug S (1971-73). Note the bulgy front, and flat windscreen.
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Phil74Camper
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 08:54 AM
This is the Superbug L (1973-75). Note the same bulgy front, but the windscreen is much bigger, and curved, and the front bonnet is shorter.
This is a UK photo - our Superbugs had high-back seats.
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Phil74Camper
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 09:04 AM
This is a 'normal' torsion bar, ball-joint Beetle. Note the non-bulgy nose and flat windscreen.
The '68-70 1500 Beetle looked like this, and had front disc brakes. The 1971-75 1300 Beetle looked generally the same but had front drums.
The '76 1600 also looks like this, but the front blinkers will be in the bumper instead of the front mudguards.
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stilson
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 07:38 PM
Thanks a bunch phil, that has cleared things up for me nicely.
Unfortunately my ultimate ride will be a lot more work than i had anticipated.
By mild offroad I was refering to the conversion rather than mild use.
time to dig through the old threads again
cheers
Biting off more than I can chew...
Smiley
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 10:01 PM
You can always buy something that's Balljoint and swingaxle, then change it to IRS.
Smiley
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68AutoBug
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posted on July 21st, 2009 at 11:49 PM
Sorry Phil..
I use 1302S & 1303S because I'm on overseas forums daily
and overseas 1303S owners don;t know what an "L" beetle is...
The 1976 beetle also had IRS rear end... but looked like the 1968 beetle in the photo.. with the black & white wheels.. like Mine had...
I have a 1968 semi Automatic beetle which differs from manuals as it had the IRS rear end same as the 1976 beetle and the supers...
Super beetles front suspension is attached to the body NOT the chassis as in all NON Super beetles...
I prefer the ball joint torsion bar front ends..
many off roaders like the kingpin front end...
You can convert early beetles to disc brakes but it is expensive...
I prefer the 1968-69-70 Non Super beetles...
all beetles from 1968 had the collapsible steering column which is a MUST have for Me...
I also have a collapsible steering wheel from a type 3 but beetles from 1973 had them too..
cheers
LEE
I'll see what pics i can find.... LEE
Quote:
Originally
posted by stilson
Hello, after convincing my Dad to buy a bug for my sister,
and my offroad volvo 240 purchased by a perhaps over eager friend, it is time for me to begin a mild offroad Beetle project.
I have had a weeklong search and now feel more aware of what's available (if a little confused) and my girlfriend is angry at me and its time to ask
for some help.
I think I want a disc brake ball joint / IRS 1500 4sp manual
1. did this combo come with a 1600? YES
2. how can I ensure im not looking at a superbug (on ebay or in paper) ie easy question to ask owners who may not know what a mcpherson strut is?
all SUPERS HAVE THE SPARE WHEEL LAYING FLAT
ALL NON SUPERS HAVE IT STANDING UPWARDS..
3. what is the diff between 1302s and 1302l s =sport l= luxury? nO DIFFERENCE IN aUSTRALIA
4. what years can I narrow my search to, 68-76?
5.can someone please post pics of kingpin, balljoint, super ,trailing arm, irs suspension to help noobs like myself
sorry for the long post,
cheers Seanan
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stilson
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posted on July 22nd, 2009 at 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by smileyman3000
You can always buy something that's Balljoint and swingaxle, then change it to IRS.
Smiley
Not a small task by the sound of things, do you consider the advantages of the IRS warrant the extra effort?
I am toying with the idea of converting a semi auto to a four speed but to be honest I wasn't looking for such an in depth project.
I was hoping to rotate torsion bars, add shocks and tyres over a couple of weekends, but it looks like i may have to get my hands dirty.
...or buy whatever comes along in the paper at the right price
Biting off more than I can chew...
Phil74Camper
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posted on July 22nd, 2009 at 08:01 AM
Agreed, it's unrealistic for people new to the VW scene to be swapping suspensions or converting gearboxes. These aren't jobs that can be done in 10
minutes with a spanner. Converting a swing-axle to IRS is a major redesign of the rear end and requires specialist tools, equipment such as a press
and a welder, and detailed VW knowledge. Converting a semi-auto to manual is not quite as involved (I've done it) but still a major piece of work.
Forget it, unless you want to pay a VW workshop to do it for you.
Find a nice post '68 Beetle, no matter what spec, learn to maintain it well, and enjoy it as it is.
BTW Lee, American forum people won't know what a '1302 S' is either. They know them as 'Super Beetles'.
posted on July 21st, 2009 at 01:02 AM
posted on July 21st, 2009 at 11:49 PM