| [ Total Views: 1685 | Total Replies: 27 | Thread Id: 78128 ] |
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 SPRINTSTAR
Insano Dub Head
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 09:09 AM |
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Grounds for Legal Action
Can somebody enlighten me as I've just found out, somebody,one of the administrators of the other aussie VW Forum, altered my profile signature
albeit illegally including disabling my account in order to prevent me from responding. The 'altered signature' clearly amounts to defamation. I
have notified my legal representative and will be taking action shortly. The question is, is this something that can happen here? It makes me wonder
as I have often suspected somebody has been accessing my messages and reading personal correspondences.
Thanks!
a
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axlepressbutton
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 09:21 AM |
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I don't like the sound of this.
I thought we were all meant to be friends.
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SPRINTSTAR
Insano Dub Head
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 09:40 AM |
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We are friends mate but unfortunately there will always be wannabe dictators out there that abuse their powers.
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silver
Veteran Volks Folk
Dangerous when poked
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 10:14 AM |
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as long as you understand the first rule of law........"He with the least money loses" , then go for it
Keeping it real !
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 02:23 PM |
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I can honestly say that in my position as an administrator I cannot read anyone elses PM's on this forum.
I can at request edit a users account. This has only ever been limited for me to resetting password for those who have forgot, or changing username.
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SPRINTSTAR
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 804
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Location: Melbourne
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 02:45 PM |
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Thanks very much for your reply and I certainly appreciate your honesty.
Cheers,
a
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stevosky
Officially Full-On Dubber
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 06:34 PM |
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I was a member of a different forum not vw and the "owner" was always creating false user names and posting inappropriate messages. He would change
peoples signatures and edit posts from other users. He is an all round crook and I imagine he is still doing it. Most people wake up to what he does
and leave.
Steve
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Warrenm
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 07:10 PM |
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Admin on Kombi Konnection cannot access PMs and the only time user accounts are accessed is to reset password or at a user request to change a
username.
There is also many Australian based VW forums
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
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Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
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Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 07:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SPRINTSTAR
Can somebody enlighten me as I've just found out, somebody,one of the administrators of the other aussie VW Forum, altered my profile signature
albeit illegally including disabling my account in order to prevent me from responding. Thanks!
a
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I'm glad its NOT this forum...
and I don't know of the "other" vw forum....
I'm an administrator on two overseas VW forums and I'm sure no one would do that sort of thing on those...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
23 Windows of Awesome
DAS Resto Haus
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Location: Gold Coast
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Mood: feeling fine...
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 09:27 PM |
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Yep, can't access PMs here on AVD.
Legal challenges do pop up time to time hence why Brad (buggy brad) and partly Jim (bennetonvw) called it quits....for something that we are supposed
to be involved in for fun is not so enjoyable when you have to deal with solicitors and the like.
Al
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Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 10:51 PM |
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I would have thought Andrew would have jumped in here but I will before it goes to far down a confusing path.
ALL MODERN Forum software will allow the reading of messages etc by accessing the Data Base Directly, this is, however, something which most people
can not do due to very limited access to the server itself.
In that case of AVD and the software which it runs on, it is NOT POSSIBLE for anyone other than Andrew to look at anything on the server and thus NOT
POSSIBLE for anyone to read any U2U's which are not their own.
The AVD Software, which is largely written by Andrew allows admins a certain level of access and even then it LOGS every use of this access so it can
be audited should the need arise. That's right every time an Admin access there admin panel and does anything it records who did what when.
A LOT of the free forums do not offer anywhere near this level of control or audit path. In fact many of them actually use the PM's / U2U's as a
form of market research to see what people are up to and sell on their findings and details to viral web companies. One of the many reasons AVD stayed
on UltimaBB, why do you think free forums are given out ?
As Al pointed out I am no longer an Admin and have nothing to do with running this place, after all the hard work Andrew has put into keeping the
Software secure and sorted though I thought it only fair to make sure NO ONE thought this post was about AVD or that this sort of thing could happen
on AVD.
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Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
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Location: Brisbane
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| posted on August 1st, 2009 at 11:29 PM |
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As Brad mentioned, us super admins can edit users accounts but it is all logged so the other super admins can find out what has been done, by who and
when.
I have checked the logs on requests from members before, in order to tell the member who (admin or moderator) changed or deleted a post etc.
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Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 890
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Location: Port Macquarie NSW
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Mood: Fweemin
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 03:25 AM |
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SPRINTSTAR,
I agree with the above replies but check the site's rules and make sure you haven't (accidentally) contravened them in some way before you sink
money into a legal challenge. The site's rules might also contain disclaimers that leave you legally legless.
I am an administrator of a VW forum also and there is no way I would deal with a member other than in a private and (hopefully mutually) respectful
way.
It's easy for me to say, not having seen the offending profile signature change, but it might be easier to take a chill pill and give that site the
flick.
Regards,
Matt.
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donn
Wolfsburg Elder
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Location: NEWCASTLE NSW
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Mood: LAID BACK AND CONFUSED
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 08:18 AM |
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"but it might be easier to take a chill pill"
Society would be much happier if we all took note of the above.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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Pumba
Veteran Volks Folk
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 08:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by donn
"but it might be easier to take a chill pill"
Society would be much happier if we all took note of the above.
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Are they like the ones you buy in night clubs???
69 Beetle
66 Beetle
56 Beetle
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donn
Wolfsburg Elder
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 08:41 AM |
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Grey hair and grey beard precludes me from the knowledge to answer your question, but they are very simmilar to the amber sandwiches of my youth and
the red drink the doctor recomended just last week, (cab merlot seems to work very nicely)
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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vwjon
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 914
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Mood: oily n thirsty
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Warrenm
Admin on Kombi Konnection cannot access PMs and the only time user accounts are accessed is to reset password or at a user request to change a
username
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Admin on KK also close or dissable accounts without warning, without reason and without informing those concerned! DONT THEY WARRENM???
3 1959 cadillacs
1 musso
2 early notchbacks
2 split kombis
2 split panels
1 split ute
1 low light panel
1 ex-pmg bay
1 country buggy
1 beetle ute
1 14" syncro caravelle
1 16" syncro doka
1 golf cabrio
1 vw camper trailer
2 3meter bombs
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T-34
A.k.a.: Mick
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 234
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Registered: February 11th, 2004
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Location: Adelaide
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 PM |
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I run many sites with forums, and been involved in many other interactive sites over the years, and have to say that it is only here in Australia that
I have seen problems with solicitors, legal threats and such like. And to be really blatantly honest - most of those conversations have been here on
AVD. it simply isn't a problem in the rest of the world. Go figure?
Generally by using a site you agree to comply with some rules, they usually just amount to using the site as if you were conducting communications
face to face - be polite, don't swear, don't be offensive etc... It's generally not really that hard to comply with, and if you don't agree, you
should not use the site. Unfortunately these rules need to be written out as some people seem to throw away their manners when they get behind a
keyboard. Netiquette seems to completely escape some people. Rules may also state what is and what is not acceptable in signatures.
By the same token - the same rules usually say something along the lines of the management reserving the right to delete or modify content where
appropriate, they also generally say that any data you submit to the site is not secure and may be compromised - privacy policies, generally only
extend to dissemination of information to third parties.
Without using a secure server to host the site, encrypted data, and providing valid certification to client connections (like you have with an online
bank account) you should assume that your data is more or less freely available. If you want something to be private - ie in no way accessible to
anyone who YOU don't want to be able to see it - put quite simply - don't post it on the net.
If they have modified or deleted the content of your signature as they think it contravenes their acceptable use policy, whether written or implied,
then they are perfectly within their rights to do so. However, if they locked your account and changed it to something offensive / defamatory then you
MIGHT be able to sue for defamation of character (libel). BUT... try to consider what it is, that has caused whoever did this, to act in this way. If
you go to court - they will pull out every last post from the site that you have made to try and turn the tables on this accusation - they will try
and paint you in a bad picture. This is probably not hard to do to anyone by misquoting, removing the context of a comment and placing spin on the
meaning of a post. A good solicitor will probably make Cliff Richard seem like Ozzy Ozbourne.
Libel is a hard thing to go to court over - generally you have to prove that it has somehow affected your reputation and caused financial or emotional
loss. Simply being upset over someone calling you names is generally not going to get past the first consultation at the solicitors (additionally they
may laugh). Libel is in complete contravention with the basic human right of freedom of speech - if someone calls you names - they are just in their
actions - as it is their right.
Tough justice as they say.
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SPRINTSTAR
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 804
Threads: 187
Registered: September 16th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 04:59 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by T-34
I run many sites with forums, and been involved in many other interactive sites over the years, and have to say that it is only here in Australia that
I have seen problems with solicitors, legal threats and such like. And to be really blatantly honest - most of those conversations have been here on
AVD. it simply isn't a problem in the rest of the world. Go figure?
Generally by using a site you agree to comply with some rules, they usually just amount to using the site as if you were conducting communications
face to face - be polite, don't swear, don't be offensive etc... It's generally not really that hard to comply with, and if you don't agree, you
should not use the site. Unfortunately these rules need to be written out as some people seem to throw away their manners when they get behind a
keyboard. Netiquette seems to completely escape some people. Rules may also state what is and what is not acceptable in signatures.
By the same token - the same rules usually say something along the lines of the management reserving the right to delete or modify content where
appropriate, they also generally say that any data you submit to the site is not secure and may be compromised - privacy policies, generally only
extend to dissemination of information to third parties.
Without using a secure server to host the site, encrypted data, and providing valid certification to client connections (like you have with an online
bank account) you should assume that your data is more or less freely available. If you want something to be private - ie in no way accessible to
anyone who YOU don't want to be able to see it - put quite simply - don't post it on the net.
If they have modified or deleted the content of your signature as they think it contravenes their acceptable use policy, whether written or implied,
then they are perfectly within their rights to do so. However, if they locked your account and changed it to something offensive / defamatory then you
MIGHT be able to sue for defamation of character (libel). BUT... try to consider what it is, that has caused whoever did this, to act in this way. If
you go to court - they will pull out every last post from the site that you have made to try and turn the tables on this accusation - they will try
and paint you in a bad picture. This is probably not hard to do to anyone by misquoting, removing the context of a comment and placing spin on the
meaning of a post. A good solicitor will probably make Cliff Richard seem like Ozzy Ozbourne.
Libel is a hard thing to go to court over - generally you have to prove that it has somehow affected your reputation and caused financial or emotional
loss. Simply being upset over someone calling you names is generally not going to get past the first consultation at the solicitors (additionally they
may laugh). Libel is in complete contravention with the basic human right of freedom of speech - if someone calls you names - they are just in their
actions - as it is their right.
Tough justice as they say.
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Thanks for your input,duly noted but nonetheless, it's unfortunate that they do not share neither your intelligence or wisdom.
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
a suffusion of yellow
Posts: 3122
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Member Is Offline
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
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Mood: In the family again
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| posted on August 2nd, 2009 at 09:58 PM |
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Sprintstar,
XMB, the software UltimaBB is based upon, USED to have PM reading capabilities. I got rid of it in 2003 as it was being abused ... at XMB (and
not here). Yes, theoretically I can read everyone's PMs using the database directly, but honestly, I have much better things to do like seeing
friends or playing with my daughter.
You have fairly good privacy here due to the audit logs maintained by the system. Our current admin logs go back to 2007. All the admins can see
the logs, so we keep each other honest. All administrative and moderator actions are logged. If there's any doubt, I can review them and ask for an
explanation. AFAIK, we've had no admins or mods stepping out of line for years and years. If anything, I think we've been a bit lax for the last
few, but you folks seem to like it that way.
There's no money in running forums (AVDS runs at a slight loss every year), so your solicitors will advise pretty quickly that you'll want to
settle with the other side. This is how we've resolved all of our legal issues since day 1. I think it works better anyway - a chance to talk in
person and get grievances out of the road is always preferable in this really small community.
I have no idea about the other forum you're talking about, and I know you've not done it to us, but I wish to remind
everyone that threatening AVDS with legal action is grounds for immediate banning. This has been in our rules (see the links above) since about
2004 or so after a number of folks tried to sue us and thus this rule is non-negotiable as it threatens our very existence. We've let a couple of
folks back in after a period of time as they were just in the heat of the moment and I think they've contributed to this community since then, but
that's the exception and not the rule.
A defamation action can easily cost $100,000 to both sides whilst it is going on. It could rise to $250,000 or $500,000 if you're not careful. If you
win, you'll get nothing as the other side simply doesn't have that sort of money. If you lose, you'll be bankrupt, and you'll still feel badly
done by.
Honestly, please talk to the other team and see what can be done to resolve the issue. Our community is too small for this type of thing, and it
really (and I mean REALLY) turns off the other punters. If you can't resolve it there, there's heaps of other forums, including ours. If want a
mediator, and the other side agrees, let's talk offline. PM me.
thanks,
Andrew
p.s. The only things I look for are Nazi / white power symbols, and anything that is against the various Vilification and Discrimination Acts (racial
epithets, religious intolerance, disability, sexism, etc). The rules for those things are more relaxed in the Bad Attitude section as I expect folks
who asked for access are all adults and don't have a thin skin. I can't recall the last time we had a blow up about that sort of stuff, but if you
see it, please click "Report" and we'll take a look at it, and deal with it as we see it.
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grumble
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2671
Threads: 53
Registered: June 10th, 2008
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Location: Taree
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy all the time
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| posted on August 3rd, 2009 at 09:11 PM |
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Thank you Andrew I have nothing but praise for the AVD site as it has brought me back in touch with the vW community and they have supported me and my
business over the years,it is disappointing to see this derogatory logging is happening on other sites and trust that the administrative rules can
control this. We,the users are the winners and greatly appreciate the time and effort given by the administrators. Cheers Les
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hertz1
Learner Dubber
Posts: 8
Threads: 2
Registered: August 3rd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on August 3rd, 2009 at 09:38 PM |
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Al, you have PM
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RED62E
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 228
Threads: 54
Registered: February 24th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Tweed Heads
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: All good. Honest!!!
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| posted on August 3rd, 2009 at 09:57 PM |
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There are laws in relation to criminal acts committed online.
The Commonwealth Criminal Code contains Telecommunication offences legislation.
I speak with kids daily about this in schools.
The particular section states that it is an offence to use a telecommunications carrier to menass, harass, threaten or cause offence.
The cited example of harassment is constantly calling someones phone number and hanging up. Also known as prank calling.
It maybe the case that where something has been posted on the internet and it is meancing, harassing, theatening or likely to be considered by a
reasonable person as offensive then a report can be made to the Police and action maybe considered against the offending person.
Quote,"(Simply being upset over someone calling you names is generally not going to get past the first consultation at the solicitors (additionally
they may laugh). "
Whilst this maybe the case with regard to civil issues this type of behaviour does amount to cyber bullying or cyber crime. An issue seen as mostly
affecting teenagers however the more it is spoken about the more we see it is common across the age groups.
If someone finds they are the victim of this type of behaviour there maybe grounds for an official investigation in relation to a criminal offence.
It does not matter in what environment something happens you have the right to be safe where ever you are. Physical world or cyber world.
Of course the actual situation subject of this thread may have nothing to do with this type of behaviour.
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Peter_D_C
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 102
Threads: 20
Registered: June 18th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on August 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 PM |
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I love youse all. 
1969 Type 3 Squareback
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Rural Baja
A.k.a.: Will Holmes
Custom Title Time!
#tassievwpickers
Posts: 1075
Threads: 122
Registered: January 3rd, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: NE Tasmania
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Chop chop
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| posted on August 5th, 2009 at 05:00 PM |
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It has occured to me on another Australian VW Site, where i was suspended and had my signature area changed to something very defaming. There was
really very little i could do about it
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SPRINTSTAR
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 804
Threads: 187
Registered: September 16th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on August 7th, 2009 at 09:05 AM |
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The site in question has formally apologized and retracted the incriminating post. I'm willing to move forward from this silly episode.
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djnee
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 341
Threads: 59
Registered: March 23rd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Lara, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: going lower...
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| posted on August 7th, 2009 at 01:50 PM |
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We CAN recover from this.. 
Seriously though, not sure what went on, but glad to hear that it's all sorted now 
Sometimes high jinx can get out of hand.
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Warrenm
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 466
Threads: 98
Registered: August 6th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Western Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Cruising & Happy
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| posted on August 8th, 2009 at 07:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwjon
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Warrenm
Admin on Kombi Konnection cannot access PMs and the only time user accounts are accessed is to reset password or at a user request to change a
username
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Admin on KK also close or dissable accounts without warning, without reason and without informing those concerned! DONT THEY WARRENM???
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Only once!
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