| [ Total Views: 928 | Total Replies: 8 | Thread Id: 79766 ] |
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 djnee
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| posted on October 21st, 2009 at 11:48 AM |
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Starter motor horrid noise thing again
Ok,
Just changed my starter motor bush but my car still doesn't start first turn of the key (i got the 6v starter in 12v car grating noise)
i've read a few times about replacing the VW solenoid with a pre-EH Holden one, but i am curious as to what difference it makes as all a solenoid
does is throw the pinion at the flywheel ain't it? Does it do it slower or something?
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 vw54
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| posted on October 21st, 2009 at 12:25 PM |
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do you know if you havea 6v or 12V flywheel as theres a difference in the number of teeth
6V starters dont mesh too well in a 12V flywheel teeth
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djnee
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| posted on October 21st, 2009 at 09:25 PM |
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Ooooh, thats a good question!
Umm, i know it's probably hit and miss but the carb on my car still has a 6v choke, so i'm guessing its the orig 6v engine with orig flywheel.
possibly 
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h
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| posted on October 21st, 2009 at 09:44 PM |
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yup sounds like a dilemma you have there..
always more to it when changing thems things..
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Anthiron
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| posted on October 21st, 2009 at 10:59 PM |
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i ran a 6v starter for years with a 6v flywheel running on 12 v and never had an issue. maybe i was just lucky.
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Matt Ryan
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| posted on October 22nd, 2009 at 07:06 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by djnee
Ok,
Just changed my starter motor bush but my car still doesn't start first turn of the key (i got the 6v starter in 12v car grating noise)
i've read a few times about replacing the VW solenoid with a pre-EH Holden one, but i am curious as to what difference it makes as all a solenoid
does is throw the pinion at the flywheel ain't it? Does it do it slower or something?
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There is a helix cut into the shaft so that, as the pinion moves forward it will rotate.(this happens in a split second, before the starter motor
itself begins to turn) The harder you throw the pinion along the shaft, the faster it will be rotating when it hits the ring gear. A 6volt solenoid
running at 12 volts will throw the pinion harder, the pinion hits the ring gear rotating too fast and eventually chews the teeth on the ring gear, the
pinion gear trying to mesh with a chewed ring gear is what makes that horrible noise. Once the pinion has meshed properly with the ring gear, then the
starter motor begins to turn.(it all happens in milliseconds)
Even if you put the pre Eh solenoid on, the ring gear damage is already done. You will probably still need to rotate your flywheel so that the pinion
will now be meshing on a good undamaged section of ring gear teeth. Or..... you can replace the flywheel completely.
As Dave said, you also need to know what flywheel you have. Take the starter motor out then, through the starter hole in bell housing you will see a
section of ring gear. Mark a tooth with some white out or a dab of paint or a centre punch etc. Then use a screwdriver jammed in the teeth to slowly
rotate the engine through 360 degrees and count the number of teeth as you go. 6 and 12 volt have a different number of teeth, can't remember how
many for each off hand but will get back to you with it.
Regards,
Matt.
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djnee
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| posted on October 22nd, 2009 at 07:32 AM |
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Thanks Matt, that all makes sense to me now!
OK, firstly....is this the right part? This is 12v which is right yeah?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/holden-grey-motor-starter-motor-fx-fj-fe-fc-fb-ek-ej-e...
And im guessing i just take the solenoid off the side and bolt it onto my vw one? Is there any machining involved or does it go straight on?
Thanks for your ongoing help! Really want to sort this once and for all!
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Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
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| posted on October 22nd, 2009 at 03:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by djnee
Thanks Matt, that all makes sense to me now!
OK, firstly....is this the right part? This is 12v which is right yeah?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/holden-grey-motor-starter-motor-fx-fj-fe-fc-fb-ek-ej-e...
And im guessing i just take the solenoid off the side and bolt it onto my vw one? Is there any machining involved or does it go straight on?
Thanks for your ongoing help! Really want to sort this once and for all!
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Yep,
It's a straight swap, no machining. Make sure you extend the solenoid shaft and lube it with some anti seize. you may have to put 12 volts into it to
get it to extend.
By the way 6 volt ring gear is 109 teeth and 12 volt is 130. When you're counting them you should see how badly worn the teeth are. make sure you
have a 6 volt flywheel before spending any money on ebay.
Don't forget you still may end up having to drop the engine, remove the flywheel, rotate it 90 degrees and bolt it back on, if the
teeth are badly worn.
Regards,
Matt.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on October 22nd, 2009 at 03:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Anthiron
i ran a 6v starter for years with a 6v flywheel running on 12 v and never had an issue. maybe i was just lucky.
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I believe if the engine starts first kick every time...
You won't have any problems...
but if Your engine needs to be turning over and over
it will wear the teeth out...
needs a tuned engine with plenty of spark..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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