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 sander288
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| posted on October 26th, 2009 at 07:14 PM |
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Timing won't remain where needed... FIXED
Tuning the 1300 in my bug couple of days back because it is pining whilst accelerating and going up hills and around corners, which i'll get to
soon...
But on inspecting the timing it was off... no worries timing light out and set it a 7.5 BTDC. take it for a spin round the block still pinging but
power is good.
come back home and quickly check the timing again just to make sure before I call it quits and it has moved to way BTDC, go through it all again and
check it again and it's ATDC,
a. do you know what could be moving or affecting the timing to not remain set?
b. Pinging and popping, is it bad fuel/air mix, old carb.. fuel filter, or something I havn't even thought of, but it wasn't doing it before..
Any help would be sooooooo good it's powerless and pops I really feel like i'm driving chitty chitty bang bang...
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Midlife crisis
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| posted on October 26th, 2009 at 08:51 PM |
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Check the bracket that holds it in place may not be going tight and allowing the disy to turn even thought you have tightened the nut and bolt.
Marc
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on October 26th, 2009 at 10:04 PM |
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when its pinging... its very much usually TOO far advanced (retard the ignition timing by heading closer towards TDC rather than before), or simply
BAD fuel.
the more retarded then the more gutless its suppose to be. So if its getting more grubby when being advanced... then far out! I'd be suss its a fuel
issue then. Check that hte distriutor clamp is firm on the dissy body itself, as well as on the engine block.
heat can cause pinging as well, so running lean would be a major contributor of such. The hotter the motor gets, the sluggish it runs. They say if you
can't touch the dip stick cause its too hot, then you know its overheating. It should be warm enough for you to grasp and pull out without burning
yourself.
So!
1) get some PREMIUM petrol from a decent servo... like a Mobile rather than 7 Eleven... (greater octane rating naturally cures pinging half the
time.)
2) time the motor for factory specs
3) make sure distributor hold down bolts are crazily firm without killing it
4) Rich it up a bit on the carb [IF THE ABOVE DOESN'T WORK]
5) If its overheating check the fan for rubbish in it like leaves, make sure the tin wear looks alright and seams firmly sealed. make sure the cooling
fins on the barrels and heads aren't gunked up with oilly mud or anything. If no luck here then post another thread if shes overheating.
heres some good info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking (knocking,
detonation, pinging... all the same term for same phenomenon)
QUOTE:
"Detonation can be prevented by any or all of the following techniques: the use of a fuel with high octane rating, which increases the combustion
temperature of the fuel and reduces the proclivity to detonate; enriching the fuel/air ratio, which adds extra fuel to the mixture and increases the
cooling effect when the fuel vaporizes in the cylinder; reducing peak cylinder pressure by increasing the engine revolutions (e.g., shifting to a
lower gear, there is also evidence that knock occurs easier at low rpm than high regardless of other factors); "
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on October 26th, 2009 at 10:08 PM |
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Did this happen only once after you filled it up? (with fuel)?
As you said about your fuel filter... do check, cause it might be chockin and then running it lean if clogged...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Anthiron
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 12:38 AM |
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chris. fuel cant alter the timing..........
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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DaveCarter
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 01:06 AM |
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I think he is saying that the pinging might not be caused by a movement of timing but from poor fuel
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Carter
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 06:18 AM |
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yeah that's what he was getting at. Fuel can't change the timing, but fuel can cause pinging. Which would seem like a timing problem
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Joel
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 08:32 AM |
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hows your endfloat?
ive got a 1600 twinport somewhere from one of my old bugs
its absolutely f**ked but in typical vw fashion still ran with 6mm crank float
everytime u put the clutch in the crank moved enough to throw the timing out and made it stall 
if the clamps nice and tight i'd also be checking your drive gear for wear
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BRUTUS
A.k.a.: et tu, Brute
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 10:05 AM |
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sander288, The timing changing erratically could be from faulty, worn or damaged points. Or worn/loose distributor shaft or advance mechanism. IF it
has a mech-advance distributor (yours 'should' be vacuum - if orig.), you can rotate the shaft via the rotor button: it should rotate just slightly,
and spring back when released. If it flops back & forward, it needs repair. If it has vac. advance, the points-plate may be sticking. The
mechanism can be checked by sucking on the vac. hose; plate should snap back when vac. removed.
If you are checking the timing with a strobe lamp, the dist. might start to 'advance' when the rpm goes over about 1000rpm, so initial advance must
be set at a proper idle speed (not critical, say 600 - 900rpm). And use no.1 HT lead. It may be better to set the timing with the engine off - very
easy.
If you have a dwell meter, check the dwell (should be within 42 - 58 deg.). If it's VARYING at all at idle, or with small speed increases, the
points/distributor shaft area is the problem.
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.
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sander288
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 07:53 PM |
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cheers for the replies
1. I'd just filled it up with a new tank of 98 octane from a Caltex... which has been done before without any pinging.
2. The ignition components minus the distributor are all new, and the dwell angle is stable and where it needs to be
3. Tinware fan etc.. are all fitted correctly and gunk free, as are the barrels etc... because I recently took the motor out to clean it.
4. The tigntening screw on the dizzy was tight, but I havn't checked the actual clamp itself so will do
Questions.
How do I measure endfloat?
How do I check the drivegear for the dizzy?
But i'll do all the other stuff when I get back home, so it will be a week or so...
Cheers
Shaun
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 09:09 PM |
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Timing changes as the motor gets hot.
Set the timing at 7.5deg BTDC when the motor is COLD.
DO NOT TRY AND SET THE TIMING WHEN ITS HOT
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johny rotten
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 09:16 PM |
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why not set it hot ? we usually drive with the engine hot .
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sander288
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 09:44 PM |
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I set the timing when the motor is just able to idle,
the tappets I still havn't mastered, I get my mechanic to do that and it's always done cold i drop it off the day before so he can do it first thing
in the morning
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greedy53
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 05:41 PM |
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just pull it out and take a gander at it be the best way to start
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 12:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
why not set it hot ? we usually drive with the engine hot .
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as the temperature of the engine varies...
so would the timing....
so VW in their wisdom has always said ONLY do the tappets when they are cold... usually first thing of a morning...
LEE
PS: every VW manual I have says the same thing...
I have a lot of manuals..
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 12:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
Tuning the 1300 in my bug couple of days back because it is pining whilst accelerating and going up hills and around corners, which i'll get to
soon...
But on inspecting the timing it was off... no worries timing light out and set it a 7.5 BTDC. take it for a spin round the block still pinging but
power is good.
come back home and quickly check the timing again just to make sure before I call it quits and it has moved to way BTDC, go through it all again and
check it again and it's ATDC,
a. do you know what could be moving or affecting the timing to not remain set?
b. Pinging and popping, is it bad fuel/air mix, old carb.. fuel filter, or something I havn't even thought of, but it wasn't doing it before..
Any help would be sooooooo good it's powerless and pops I really feel like i'm driving chitty chitty bang bang...
|
Make sure Your distributor is down into the engine far enough
there is a spring under there to stop any movement.
Put a strobe timing lamp on it and start the engine and see whats happening... the lamp will show the timing moving up & down as you rev... up
to about 28-30 degrees with a 009 NON vacuum dissy..
My Dissy clamp is never too tight that I cannot move it by hand... but.. it never moves unless i move it by hand..
but its a near new distributor..
the worst case would be...
the brass/bronze distributor drive gear is worn out!!!!
which only happens [IMHO] when the distributor isn't seated properly..
OR
the easiest problem - would be the drive dog pin is sheared off or missing altogether...
allowing the drive dog to move about... on the end of the distributor..
just pull the distributor out to check the pin is still there
and the drive dog cannot move .. on the shaft..
now that would be a good problem to have... lol
cheers
LEE
I hope that IS your problem....
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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sander288
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| posted on November 7th, 2009 at 05:25 PM |
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Finally back home, and have fixed the problem...
First off I took the dizzy out to have a look, and checked the drive dog, which is a bit worn but ok, so I put the dizzy back in made sure it was all
the way in a did the clamp back up, it seemed to be in better than before.
reset points, timing and carby again, and cleaned the fuel filter screen in the fuel pump, started her up and went for a drive,
result is perfect running, with full power again!
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