| [ Total Views: 825 | Total Replies: 19 | Thread Id: 81045 ] |
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 jamsha71
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 01:32 AM |
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German made
I've got a quick question for those history buffs.
How common are German made 1969 Beetles in Australia?
76 Kombi (current)
75 Kombi
71 Beetle
69 Beetle
69 Beetle
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 06:50 AM |
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69 was a weird year for VW's here... for most (all ?) of the year the factory wasn't actually "building" any, but was instead assembling cars from
"Complete Knock Down" kits that came from Germany. Partly because of it being a changeover year, and partly because of the Aust Govt. playing silly
buggers with the "Australian Content" rules to the extent that VW was considering closing the factory down permanently.
So basically any 69 Beetle is very likely to be a German, and if it is (or used to be) a Semi-Auto then it'll DEFINITELY be a German. A whole heap of
ways you can tell, but the compliance plate in spare wheel well saying 'Volkswagenwerke AG" is the giveaway.
Don't know the exact number of CKD's that came in during 68/69 - have a book that'd have the number and will check tonite, but I'd expect could be
as many as 10,000 or so.
Why... you lookin at getting one ??? 68/69/70 beetles are a pretty good model to have...
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71-BEETLE-SEDAN
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 06:14 PM |
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When did they start making semi autos in aus?
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 09:25 PM |
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My book is a bit vague on the details, but basically Australian production of Beetles had stopped by December 1967 and they just assembled what parts
were left.
CKD assembly started in March 1968, with 6,433 beetles produced for the year out of 13,684 VW cars total (Beetle + Type 2 + Type 3 + Country Buggy)
Doesn't seem to have a hard Beetle assembly figures for later years, but has 14,472 total for 1969 and 17,104 for 1970.
There's actually no mention of semi-auto's being produced in Aus at all - just that "about 500 to 600" were brought in from Germany for
1968/69.
Clear as mud I reckon....
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cam070
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 10:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
69 was a weird year for VW's here... for most (all ?) of the year the factory wasn't actually "building" any, but was instead assembling cars from
"Complete Knock Down" kits that came from Germany. Partly because of it being a changeover year, and partly because of the Aust Govt. playing silly
buggers with the "Australian Content" rules to the extent that VW was considering closing the factory down permanently.
So basically any 69 Beetle is very likely to be a German, and if it is (or used to be) a Semi-Auto then it'll DEFINITELY be a German. A whole heap of
ways you can tell, but the compliance plate in spare wheel well saying 'Volkswagenwerke AG" is the giveaway.
Don't know the exact number of CKD's that came in during 68/69 - have a book that'd have the number and will check tonite, but I'd expect could be
as many as 10,000 or so.
Why... you lookin at getting one ??? 68/69/70 beetles are a pretty good model to have...
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Why are the 68/69/70 models so desirable?
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on December 30th, 2009 at 11:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71-BEETLE-SEDAN
When did they start making semi autos in aus?
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ALL semi auto beetles were made in Germany...
and the 1968 automatic model was the first to have the IRS rear suspension that the Supers had later on...
1968-69-70 beetles all had the torsion bar front suspension and Disc brakes... 12 volts.. 1500 engines..
LEE
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colonel mustard
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 11:41 PM |
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I personally don't know why you would bother with a semi auto for the IRS when you could have the far superior mcpherson strut front end, hey Lee?
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cam070
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| posted on December 30th, 2009 at 11:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71-BEETLE-SEDAN
When did they start making semi autos in aus?
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ALL semi auto beetles were made in Germany...
and the 1968 automatic model was the first to have the IRS rear suspension that the Supers had later on...
1968-69-70 beetles all had the torsion bar front suspension and Disc brakes... 12 volts.. 1500 engines..
LEE
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Is that the same set up as the 70's standard Beetles but with the 1600tp motor?
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jamsha71
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 12:44 AM |
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Hey Sides, thanks for that info.
My next bug project (once my son's Beetle on the road) is a 69 Beetle which does have "Volkswagenwerk AG" on the compliance plate. It also has
"Made in Germany", just to be sure.
It's very much a four-speed manual, not a semi-auto. So does this make it a CKD assembled in Australia, or a fully assembled import? It doesn't
have an AS engine number.
I guess I'm just curious. I picked her up for a bargain price and although there's some work to do she idles nicely after a fuel pump clean out and
once over of the carby.
76 Kombi (current)
75 Kombi
71 Beetle
69 Beetle
69 Beetle
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 vw54
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 06:44 AM |
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heres a semi auto if your looking for one
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=80724&page=1#pid752724
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 07:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
I personally don't know why you would bother with a semi auto for the IRS when you could have the far superior mcpherson strut front end, hey Lee?
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Yeah, see not everyone thinks that the strut front end are superior... hell, even Volkswagen dropped the strut cars and went back to building Ball
Joint beam cars in 1975 !!!
Beam cars possibly don't drive as nice, and yes a strut car gives more options for tuning for circuit work, but it's also a lot more expensive to
maintain or modify. Beam front ends are definitely stronger and you can still get some decent handling out of 'em... anyone noticed how almost all
Beetles that get used in Hillclimb are Ball Joint beam and IRS ???
| Quote: | Originally
posted by cam070
Why are the 68/69/70 models so desirable?
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68/69/70 I think are popular because they're closer to the normal Beetle shape... don't have the fat-chick look of a Super of an L... but still have
most of the mod-cons from a Super but without the struts. Things like 12V electrics, upright headlights, tombstone tail lights, fresh air ventilation
(but no stoopid leaky vents at the rear window), better heater control, front disc brakes, collapsible column, better gear shift position, vented
engine lid (1970 Australian) etc etc.
For me personally I think the 1500 Beetle is the nicest looking model Beetle... especially with the twin vent engine lid... only one that comes close
(for me) would be an Oval
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Sides
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 07:36 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by jamsha71
Hey Sides, thanks for that info.
My next bug project (once my son's Beetle on the road) is a 69 Beetle which does have "Volkswagenwerk AG" on the compliance plate. It also has
"Made in Germany", just to be sure.
It's very much a four-speed manual, not a semi-auto. So does this make it a CKD assembled in Australia, or a fully assembled import? It doesn't
have an AS engine number.
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Hey no worries.
Hard to tell really, but as far as I know CKD cars were still marked somewhere with either Volkswagen Australia or Motor Producers Limited... possibly
on a second compliance plate.
Someone told me once that the wipers are a giveaway also... German assembled cars had wipers secured to the shaft with a little grub screw, while CKD
and Australian cars have a big nut that goes onto the shaft directly on top of the arm. The claim was that the wiper assy was part of the 5% that had
to be locally sourced, but never been able to prove that one tho...
A 69 beetle done up nicely or even given a stock resto willl be a very nice ride.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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colonel mustard
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 09:52 AM |
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Sides, I was just poking fun at Leé.
What I really think though - is that beams are stronger, but struts are more tuneable with far less effort (but not cost).
From my personal experiance/perspective - the super setup handles better for my driving.
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pod
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 10:37 AM |
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well the wiper bit sounds right, as my 69 semi auto has the grub screw thing and they are a pain as they come loose every now and again
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Sides
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| posted on December 31st, 2009 at 11:50 AM |
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Heh - no worries Col Mustard - I'm always keen to talk about the differences between 'em I guess !!! I've only ever owned beam cars, but seeing how
much room STIDUB has up the front of his, hmmm... maybe one day...
The wiper thing pod... the 69 German manual I used to own had wiper arms with the big nut, same as my 70 Australian... but the 68 (German) semi-auto I
owned had the grub screws...
Haven't seen any other original 69 manual cars, so don't know if it's a true difference between the CKD and German cars, or if my 69 manual just
had a different wiper mech put in at some point !!!
One of those little mysteries I guess... would love to know the answer...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 1st, 2010 at 12:40 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
I personally don't know why you would bother with a semi auto for the IRS when you could have the far superior mcpherson strut front end, hey Lee?
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Hi
McPherson struts are fine on Lancers and Suzuki swifts.. lol
but I choose the Torsion bar front suspension... for a beetle...
as they are stronger etc... IMHO..
although We don't have the major rust problems as in the UK where the struts can fall out due to rust... in the body....
Rust in chassis is also bad over there with front shock towers on torsion bar beetles also rusting out...
cheers
LEE
PS: We All have Our opinions.. lol
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 1st, 2010 at 12:46 AM |
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Yes,
My 68 auto beetle has the grub screws...
As far as i know , it was only on German made 68 beetles.
it was a carry over from the German made 67 beetles...
the 69 beetles had the Nut holding the wiper arms on , the same as all the later beetles.. [from memory]
the small shafts etc are also used, as I was thinking of replacing mine with a later wiper assembly, when I was restoring My beetle, but the holes
were too small..
so, I never did change it over. although I still have the wiper assembly with the nuts .. lol..
Lee
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
The wiper thing pod... the 69 German manual I used to own had wiper arms with the big nut, same as my 70 Australian... but the 68 (German) semi-auto I
owned had the grub screws...
Haven't seen any other original 69 manual cars, so don't know if it's a true difference between the CKD and German cars, or if my 69 manual just
had a different wiper mech put in at some point !!!
One of those little mysteries I guess... would love to know the answer...
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jamsha71
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| posted on January 2nd, 2010 at 12:03 AM |
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Ahhh, well the wiper arm theory is an interesting one. My 69 Beetle has flats on the shafts and grub screws on the arms.
No second "Aussie made" compliance plate either, so I guess it's a fairly safe bet that she's been assembled in Germany...or maybe not?
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71 Beetle
69 Beetle
69 Beetle
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Sides
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| posted on January 2nd, 2010 at 09:28 AM |
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Something else I've just thought of is the glass... pretty sure CKD cars got Aussie glass put in 'em...
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Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
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'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on January 2nd, 2010 at 09:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by IN2VWS
These figures are actual production figures, and does not include full imports.
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What about CKD's ???
This history stuff can get really interesting hey... wouldn't it be cool if someone who actually worked there those years could pipe up...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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