| [ Total Views: 3863 | Total Replies: 20 | Thread Id: 81503 ] |
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 pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on January 20th, 2010 at 09:45 AM |
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subaru box into VW
thought you might like to see this...
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Hi all,
I have developed a crownwheel & pinion set for the Subaru transmission that allow the differential to be 'flipped'. This provides 5 forward
gears & 1 reverse gear.
This can be used as a 4wd gearbox or a 2wd gearbox converted from the 4wd gearbox. Using a 2wd Subaru shifter end cone this gearbox will fit into type
1 beetles without cutting the torsion bar.
At this stage only a 41 tooth crownwheel and 11 tooth pinion are available.
I developed a pancake forging for these components and they are forged out of en36c steel, the preferred material for gears. CNC machined, ground and
heat treated, they are o.e.m. quality and finish.
Price of a crownwheel and pinion set is $1500usd + shipping from Sydney, Australia. A locking kit to lock the gearbox driven shaft and pinion shaft
for 2wd applications is around $100 usd.
I have some in stock now for anyone wishing to put an affordable, strong 5 spd together. Ideally looking for some workshops to order these in quantity
and provide their own 5spd kits with mounts, output flanges and shift linkages. I am not able to provide full kits. Volume discounts are available.
Subaru 4wd 8 bolt gearboxes (99 on) that these were designed for will hold 206kw stock. That's around 275hp. If you upgrade the gears for an extra
$4000usd or so they will take 500kw or approx 650 hp. Gears in both synchro, dog box, straight cut and normal are all readily available.
Please contact me for any further information at ttriebler@hotmail.com
I have also put together a website that provides more detail:
Reverse Cut Subaru Gears
regards
Todd Triebler
Dynamic Distribution
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JVLRacing
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| posted on January 20th, 2010 at 09:57 AM |
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Nice.....i was goin a subie box for new conversion but still found the strength off them still alittle on the week side...but this still sounds could
be a good buy if wanting 5speed......
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seagull
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| posted on January 24th, 2010 at 01:04 PM |
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so the final ratio is 3.7 ?? its a very tall ratio
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STIDUB
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| posted on January 24th, 2010 at 01:40 PM |
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the guy is doing it to build an awd manx, so id imagine the rubber size would counteract the diff gears 
JVL, PPG gearsets for a subie box are around 4-5k... so about the same as a built kombi box (excluding fitting the gearset in the subie box) &
with an extra gear....
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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 matberry
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| posted on January 24th, 2010 at 08:27 PM |
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Tall Off road rubber needs a lower diff ratio, between 4.8 and 5,2 generally, 3.7 and big rubber will be low rpm at highway cruise. I dont know the
gear ratios, but it'll probably be doing 2000rpm at 100km/h.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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JVLRacing
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| posted on January 24th, 2010 at 09:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by STIDUB
the guy is doing it to build an awd manx, so id imagine the rubber size would counteract the diff gears
JVL, PPG gearsets for a subie box are around 4-5k... so about the same as a built kombi box (excluding fitting the gearset in the subie box) &
with an extra gear....
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Arr yep already know that
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ttriebler
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| posted on January 24th, 2010 at 10:56 PM |
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The good news is we'll be offering different diff ratios as well. I should be able to announce them by the end of next week, the factory is just
doing the final designs to ensure the tooth profile isn't weakened. I daresay we'll be able to offer ratios from 3.7 right up to 5.9 so all you
offroaders can have your cake and still eat it when you're in 5th gear just coming on boost at 3,000rpm or so.
My AWD max runs 215/40/18's and will be a street/drag car so the diff ratio will be perfect for it, plus that's what the box had standard so we
engineered the first one off that.
hey JVL these boxes hold 206kw standard and don't break if you shift gears properly. How much power do you want to put through one?
P.S. people my website with all the info and pix is http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~ttriebler
cheers
Todd
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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seagull
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 01:54 AM |
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JLV , is well up to date on the subaru gear boxes and I dont think needs any lessons
Its the final ratio that kills the subaru gear box, hence the many failures of the aussie 3.9/3.54 ratios. Subaru uped the ratios in JDM boxes ( 5MT )
4.11 / 4.44
6 speeds , another story
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seagull
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 01:56 AM |
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Here is the ratio chart for those that are looking
as for power to run through mine , 330kw
http://spda-online.ca/modules/tinycontent/rewrite/tc_28.html
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JVLRacing
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 07:12 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
JLV , is well up to date on the subaru gear boxes and I dont think needs any lessons
Its the final ratio that kills the subaru gear box, hence the many failures of the aussie 3.9/3.54 ratios. Subaru uped the ratios in JDM boxes ( 5MT )
4.11 / 4.44
6 speeds , another story
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Thanku Sir
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seagull
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 04:46 PM |
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If we now look at the costs
Most stock JDM subaru 5 speeds come in around $1500.00
6 speeds are around $3000.00 and up these days & heaps stronger than the 5mt trans + no need for PPG gear sets
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ttriebler
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 07:28 PM |
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Sorry not trying to dish out any lessons...I am just getting up to speed on em myself.
I was asking a serious question though, how much power are you planning to put through a box JvL?
I am trying to guage how many people have combos over 350hp and would need ppg gearsets or 6 speeds.
95% of my enquiries to date are perfectly happy with the 5 speed and some lunatics even want the old 2wd box reversed that holds about 100kw.
6 speed definately a different design to the 5 speed and can't use my crownwheel and pinion, but it will go into 4 bolt and 8 bolt 5 speed 4wd
boxes.
Total length 1/2 an inch shorter than a 6 rib if you cut the Subie 4wd extension housing in half or use the 2wd extension housing. And no adapter
plate either so engine/box combo shorter.
Seagull, got a 6 speed you can send me? I'll swap you for one of my crownwheel and pinion sets and you can see if you can destroy it in your buggy!
in the meantime I'll see about getting the 6spd reverse jobbie done so if you blow the third gear out of it I can sort you out for a reverse 6 speed.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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JVLRacing
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 08:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
Sorry not trying to dish out any lessons...I am just getting up to speed on em myself.
I was asking a serious question though, how much power are you planning to put through a box JvL?
I am trying to guage how many people have combos over 350hp and would need ppg gearsets or 6 speeds.
95% of my enquiries to date are perfectly happy with the 5 speed and some lunatics even want the old 2wd box reversed that holds about 100kw.
6 speed definately a different design to the 5 speed and can't use my crownwheel and pinion, but it will go into 4 bolt and 8 bolt 5 speed 4wd
boxes.
Total length 1/2 an inch shorter than a 6 rib if you cut the Subie 4wd extension housing in half or use the 2wd extension housing. And no adapter
plate either so engine/box combo shorter.
Seagull, got a 6 speed you can send me? I'll swap you for one of my crownwheel and pinion sets and you can see if you can destroy it in your buggy!
in the meantime I'll see about getting the 6spd reverse jobbie done so if you blow the third gear out of it I can sort you out for a reverse 6 speed.
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Wat lesson do u want to give cause reallly ur guessing...
Why do u think they built a 6mt......seagull quoted..read!
personally i think ur wasting time developing a 5mt with ppgs when u could just use a 6mt......
U will find most will rather a G50, 915 or Un5 as preference to wat ur sellin
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Euro_67
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 10:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
Sorry not trying to dish out any lessons...I am just getting up to speed on em myself.
I was asking a serious question though, how much power are you planning to put through a box JvL?
I am trying to guage how many people have combos over 350hp and would need ppg gearsets or 6 speeds.
95% of my enquiries to date are perfectly happy with the 5 speed and some lunatics even want the old 2wd box reversed that holds about 100kw.
6 speed definately a different design to the 5 speed and can't use my crownwheel and pinion, but it will go into 4 bolt and 8 bolt 5 speed 4wd
boxes.
Total length 1/2 an inch shorter than a 6 rib if you cut the Subie 4wd extension housing in half or use the 2wd extension housing. And no adapter
plate either so engine/box combo shorter.
Seagull, got a 6 speed you can send me? I'll swap you for one of my crownwheel and pinion sets and you can see if you can destroy it in your buggy!
in the meantime I'll see about getting the 6spd reverse jobbie done so if you blow the third gear out of it I can sort you out for a reverse 6 speed.
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Wat lesson do u want to give cause reallly ur guessing...
Why do u think they built a 6mt......seagull quoted..read!
personally i think ur wasting time developing a 5mt with ppgs when u could just use a 6mt......
U will find most will rather a G50, 915 or Un5 as preference to wat ur sellin
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Give the guy a break, Perhaps you should read his post !
He is trying to gauge interest in the 5 speed with stronger gearset VS the 6 speed. Also no adapter plate is required for subaru box to subaru engine
which can result in a shorter engine/trans unit.
You still didnt answer his question either, how much power are you planning to put through a box?
At least he is having a go at what many said couldnt be done.
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ttriebler
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| posted on January 25th, 2010 at 11:06 PM |
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| Quote: |
Wat lesson do u want to give cause reallly ur guessing...
Why do u think they built a 6mt......seagull quoted..read!
personally i think ur wasting time developing a 5mt with ppgs when u could just use a 6mt......
U will find most will rather a G50, 915 or Un5 as preference to wat ur sellin
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Mate I think we've got crossed wires here ...sometimes stuff doesn't come across properly typing on forums.
Asking if Seagull can lend me a 6 speed to develop a solution and also gauging to see if it's worthwhile.
You might be right about a G50, 915 or Un5 preference and that's totally cool with me. I originally did this just to build my 4wd Manx anyway.
But I'll share the surprising truth with you. Out of the 15 formal sales enquiries I received in 9 days, not a single one mentioned any of those
boxes. 6 enquiries were for Vanagons with ej22's just wanting an affordable 5 speed that fits, 5 for beetles/buggies with ej20s and ej25s wanting an
affordable 5 speed that fits, 1 for 4wd beetle, 1 for sports kit car with 5 speed and 2 for autos. Surprised the heck out of me.
Would love to do a reverse 6mt and offer something for everyone!
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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seagull
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| posted on January 26th, 2010 at 01:56 AM |
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Most people would only require a 5MT fitted as I would say the big
market would be the ej22 & ej25 N/A conversions.
If we look at the 6Mt say a 02 RA STI ( I have this gear box in my liberty ) we get as factory a LSD front diff. Its very rare to get a LSD in a 5mt
gear box. also keep in mind the 6MT is around 30kgs heaver than the 5MT gear bag,
Eru _ 67 so you know the 5MT ( awd trans ) measures 800mm over all ( I am not sure what the delete kit measures when fitted ) . If I recall a type 1
box is 600mm over all , an adapter plate is 10 or 12mm thick. I think JLV would be looking for a 400Kw > 450 Kw trans ( if he is messing with
another toy these days.
Todd , I dont have a spare 6MT at this point of time
if any one is looking for a subaru awd 5mt gear box , I have one $1000.00
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JVLRacing
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| posted on January 26th, 2010 at 08:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Euro_67
| Quote: | Originally
posted by JVLRacing
| Quote: | Originally
posted by ttriebler
Sorry not trying to dish out any lessons...I am just getting up to speed on em myself.
I was asking a serious question though, how much power are you planning to put through a box JvL?
I am trying to guage how many people have combos over 350hp and would need ppg gearsets or 6 speeds.
95% of my enquiries to date are perfectly happy with the 5 speed and some lunatics even want the old 2wd box reversed that holds about 100kw.
6 speed definately a different design to the 5 speed and can't use my crownwheel and pinion, but it will go into 4 bolt and 8 bolt 5 speed 4wd
boxes.
Total length 1/2 an inch shorter than a 6 rib if you cut the Subie 4wd extension housing in half or use the 2wd extension housing. And no adapter
plate either so engine/box combo shorter.
Seagull, got a 6 speed you can send me? I'll swap you for one of my crownwheel and pinion sets and you can see if you can destroy it in your buggy!
in the meantime I'll see about getting the 6spd reverse jobbie done so if you blow the third gear out of it I can sort you out for a reverse 6 speed.
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Wat lesson do u want to give cause reallly ur guessing...
Why do u think they built a 6mt......seagull quoted..read!
personally i think ur wasting time developing a 5mt with ppgs when u could just use a 6mt......
U will find most will rather a G50, 915 or Un5 as preference to wat ur sellin
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Give the guy a break, Perhaps you should read his post !
He is trying to gauge interest in the 5 speed with stronger gearset VS the 6 speed. Also no adapter plate is required for subaru box to subaru engine
which can result in a shorter engine/trans unit.
You still didnt answer his question either, how much power are you planning to put through a box?
At least he is having a go at what many said couldnt be done.
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Ok.....iam putting or bagging this bloke!....and too start of i ran 300hps atw(and thats nothing) and i can tell u the box i had behind it was
$6500....it had quaife diff full straight cuts! do i think the box would of lasted! A BIG FAT NO it destroyed a 2300 kennedy plate....
U blokes need to listen to people who have been doin and helpin others .....myself,Seagull and Matt(boof) who have trial and error with
experience....
Mate ttriebler has asked for advice and wat iam saying
is the 5mt even with ppgs has been used behind some big motors with ppgs and exploded...reversing the crown and so on is not giving any better
strength...LOOK ITS A GOOD IDEA but for only smaller kws motors!
And the reason why people...dont ask about G50,915 or UN5 is because they dont know any better.....I can get a converted G50 and 915 between 4 to 5k
and take bigger hps without ppg....as seagull said a 6mt for 3k this bloke would know those boxes in and out...
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Euro_67
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| posted on January 26th, 2010 at 03:43 PM |
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JVL, No Doubt you and seagull know your stuff.
For most of us, with modest gains in mind (if you can consider going from 1600 TP VW to EJ20T or the like modest) the reverse cut CW & P set is a
great breakthrough. You get 5 forward gears in a 'box that mates natively to a Subaru motor without an adapter or special flywheel, etc....
These boxes handle enough power stock, and to be honest how much power do you need in an 800 kg beetle. ttriebler even stated the enquiries thus far
were for N/A engined conversions. Racing or high HP applications aside, I think there is a market for this conversion. Perhaps the same reverse cut CW
& P conversion can be produced for a 6 speed subaru ' box.
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ttriebler
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| posted on January 26th, 2010 at 05:36 PM |
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Thanks guys i value JVl and Seagull's experience and to be honest will be discouraging orders from pple with high power applications like hotted up
ej25t's and so on. Those guys have the experience and have been kind enough to share their knowledge with us. It's not worth getting a bad
reputation for something blowing up and also frigging people around. There's a lot of money invested in a drivetrain change, much more than just the
r & p cost.
Anything up to ej20T is no problem in my books as that's the factory design spec.
You don't have to worry about whether or not there's a market or not for my product. I sold out of stock in the first week. 
Now someone send me a 6 speed box so we can get it done!
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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boof2332
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| posted on February 11th, 2010 at 10:36 AM |
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The big thing with turbo motors is not the KW power they produce its the torque. Dave butler said when he rebuilt my box with the albins internals
that there were signs of stress fractures in numerous parts of the box from the torque. Even though my gear set is now strong, that doesnt change the
fact that the rest of the box remains a liability to some extent. Is it a dream to daily drive a 250atw+ beetle like you stole it, without fear of
drivetrain weakness......possibly.
My point is, after all that ramble is that even with mobs the vw box essentially is not made to handle the torque and power we are talking on a daily
basis. Just like a 1600 vw case is not designed to take a 2332 turbo motor on a daily basis.
The subaru box as a starting point will be alot stronger as a unit. If it breaks then replace the gears or whatever and it should be bullit proof. My
vw box will never be!
The G50 is expensive if you can find a good one, and unless you are a master fabricator(steve) then they are too difficult to engineer.
I think the subaru option is a good one to consider for those doing a ej20t conversion.
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1303Steve
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| posted on February 12th, 2010 at 08:26 AM |
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Hi
I wish I knew about this a few years ago. Maybe next time.
If these prove popular with off road guys the price of subi trans will go up
I just put the numbers through a gear ratio program and they look good.
I just picked a random 5 speed.
JDM Impreza WRX MY93 1st 3.454 (48 kph) 2nd 2.062 (82 kph) 3rd 1.448 (116 kph) 4th 1.088 (166 kph) 5th 0.825 (203 kph) final drive 4.111, 6,000 rpm
with a 24 inch tyre, 101 kph @ 3000 rpm
Steve
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