| [ Total Views: 2575 | Total Replies: 33 | Thread Id: 81544 ] |
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 Thinker
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 12:14 PM |
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E10 fuel Does Anyone Use it ?
just went and put fuel in my bug. i run the good stuff but at 149.9 a litre.
does anyone run E10 if so good or bad results.
if i do switch over i will need to re-turn or maybe even re-jet to suit.
thanks.
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 vw54
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 12:38 PM |
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the rubber hoses on your fuel system will deteriate RAPIDLEY
dont use the stuff swap over to standard unleaded ASAP
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 12:46 PM |
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I contacted Caltex Technical department and in a VERY carefully worded email he advised that E10 is detrimental to rubber hoses and steel tanks
As such - i no longer use it
Futue te ipsum!!!
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bajachris88
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 01:04 PM |
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The BP web sites list which cars are made to take it and which aren't.
Alot can't. Even mums 97 ford laser, which writes off mazda and their 323 engines of that time (same motor)
None of my toyota celicas can take it.
V8 super cars do! 
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
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Thinker
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 01:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
the rubber hoses on your fuel system will deteriate RAPIDLEY
dont use the stuff swap over to standard unleaded ASAP
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have you had this problem.
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matberry
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 04:04 PM |
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IMO dont use it. It's ok for a closed loop efi car that changes the mixtures depending on the exhaust emisions. They will compensate, but a carby
can't, therefore to run the E10, technally you need to rejet, then only run E10. A waste of time as the reduced performance and poorer economy
largely offset the price!. You 'risk' damaging your carby'd engine if you use it.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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68AutoBug
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 04:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Thinker
just went and put fuel in my bug. i run the good stuff but at 149.9 a litre.
does anyone run E10 if so good or bad results.
if i do switch over i will need to re-turn or maybe even re-jet to suit.
thanks.
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I don't believe it will hurt Your car or rubber hoses...
BOGAS used to say it could damage fibreglass fuel tanks???
its only 10% or Less of ethanol...
50% may damage Your hoses over a period of time... May??
in old cars the rubber hoses are so hard it won't make any difference....
I replace all My hoses every couple of years....
I have just gone to Regular unleaded after using 98 or 95
Octane Shell or Caltex for the past few years...
I did run BOGAS in a Magna years ago with NO problems
with Carburetor...
LEE
PS: I have heard of people using it in VWs... just not Me..
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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helbus
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 04:26 PM |
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E10 should never be used in a carby motor. A carby cannot compensate for the leaner fuel combustion.
It should only be used in computer controlled fuel injected motors that have an Oxygen sensor as part of the mixture ratio calculations. Even then,
only if your vehicle manufacturer recommends it.
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Camo
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 04:54 PM |
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I've been using it for about a year now in my V6 Ford TX5 with no problems at all, but you have me a little worried now. I remember the first time I
put it in my car going from normal unleaded and thought how much cheaper it was to fill. That the thing that has kept me using it.
Kev
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 06:30 PM |
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I tried it in our new car which is made for that E10 SHIT
AND We got 150Ks less per tank of fuel
So if I used that E10 SHIT it would cost me about a extra $700 a year then using the normal unleaded, no good for our carS or our wallets , its only good for making the greedy fuel sellers more
profits.
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grumble
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 06:54 PM |
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I have tried it unconsciously,it attacks the fuel hoses and diaphragms and is a lot less fuel efficient. ie uses more for less kms. A LOT OF BULLSHIT
BY POLITICIANS who obviously are on the take.
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donn
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 08:11 PM |
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Use it in my Crewman, I do a random check on the fuel consumption occasionaly doing a couple of tanks of 95, I can't tell the difference between them
in power or consumption, so mostly I use E10.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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colonel mustard
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 08:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I don't believe it will hurt Your car or rubber hoses...
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do you also believe that if you dont think fire will hurt you, it won't? The people who MAKE it, say its not good for rubber and steel, and ENGINE
BUILDERS are saying its bad for your car. so what part of your car won't it hurt? - just the parts that dont make contact with fuel. Good statement.
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Joel
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 08:40 PM |
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even the people i;ve spoke to tight enough to use it in the correct cars (ie. fuel injected with plastic fuel tanks) say the car used more fuel and
had way less power
it really is false economy, as already said just a government money spinner
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bajachris88
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 09:10 PM |
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but isn't the reason they offer it is not for fuel economy but for the greenies that want to reduce fossil fuel consumption and use something that is
taking advantage of a renewable combustion fluid?
although its only 10%... but its a start. Mind you, its sly how they don't have any notifications or warnings about the fuels compatibility with
certain vehicles at the bowser itself. Alot of friends i know just pick it out and use it without question because its simply 'cheaper' and don't
have a clue about such incompatibilities existing because its not greatly publicised.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Thinker
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 09:11 PM |
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there is some mixed thoughts.
i did a bit of seaching after asking this question and found some interesting facts:
the problem with steel tanks and fuel lines is not the ethanol it is because ethanol mixes with water and the water is what does the damage.
And yes it does perish rubber but that is 100% ethanol and its not that rapid. (methanol is the destructive one)
yes it is a little false economy but it helps the planet ( bla bla )
i also found a report writtern by some smart uni guy that tested E85 on a 1972 type 1 for 18 months with no effect. they did re jet to suit but the
report did not go in to details.
the reson i asked the question is because the price difference is about 20% to 30%. i kniow that i am going to use more fuel if i run E10 but if i
only use 10% more well i am in front.
keep it coming
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1500S
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 10:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
but isn't the reason they offer it is not for fuel economy but for the greenies that want to reduce fossil fuel consumption and use something that is
taking advantage of a renewable combustion fluid?
although its only 10%... but its a start. Mind you, its sly how they don't have any notifications or warnings about the fuels compatibility with
certain vehicles at the bowser itself. Alot of friends i know just pick it out and use it without question because its simply 'cheaper' and don't
have a clue about such incompatibilities existing because its not greatly publicised.
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Just to back up the extra consumption claims, I did a number of trips to Tamworth from North Richmond, a distance of 400km and "the Cook's" VE
Commodore used 10% plus more fuel than when run on regular unleaded even though it is states that it's ok to use the E10. What this means Chris is
that the engine is still using the same amount of unleaded "fossil fuel" plus the 10% ethanol! What are we trying to save?? Maybe the Greenies
have some sort of "new maths" for calculating their savings!!
The use of regular unleaded brings it's economy back to around 8.9 L/100km average for the return trip rather than the 10+ L/100km when using the
E10.
With this in mind, if the consumption is at least 10% more, the use of E10 is nearing the cost of premium which negates the 3 or 4 cents/litre price
difference. It's really just false economy using the stuff. BP service stations in the Sydney Metro area have stopped selling regular unleaded.
No doubt this trend will continue state wide and force everyone to use E10 or premium.
DH
And a PS for post above. Where do you get the 30% price difference. That maybe the difference in production cost but NOT the pump price
difference!
Let's say the price of unleaded is $1.30/litre and E10 is generally about 3 cents less. That makes E10 at about $1.27/litre. If the engine uses
around 10% more I would think that the cost of using E10 is really now $1.40 to get the same distance as regular unleaded at the $1.30/litre as it is
using 1.1 litres to do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't let Greenies and politicians try and convince you otherwise !!
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Thinker
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 11:14 PM |
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what you are saying that E10 Vs ulp make no difference. the end result is the same.
next time i fill up i will go for ULP and not premium
and tune to suit.
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1500S
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| posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 11:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Thinker
what you are saying that E10 Vs ulp make no difference. the end result is the same.
next time i fill up i will go for ULP and not premium
and tune to suit.
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NO!! What I'm saying it is costing you about 13 cents per unit km more to go the same distance if you use the E10 at the price at the pump I have
quoted.
How is your maths!?? 
DH
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 07:43 AM |
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Here are the 2 emails i recieved
One from Caltex and one fron VW
I asked if i could use E10 in a 2000 Mk 4 Golf, a 2.1L Vanagon and a 75L bug
Bruce Doherty [bdoherty@caltex.com.au]; on behalf of; Lubelink [lubelink@caltex.com.au]
Barry,
Caltex E10 must meet the Australian Standard for regular Unleaded petrol, which has an Octane rating of 91 minimum, however, when you add
10%volume Ethanol to regular Unleaded petrol, the Octane of the mixture finishes up at between 94 - 95. Caltex Vortex has a guaranteed Octane rating
of 95 minimum, so this is the one you should use. If you require a 98 Octane in the future, we do market Caltex Vortex 98 ( which is 98 Octane), but
it is currently only available in Sydney and Brisbane areas.
As for suitability of use for E10, our information on VWs is that it is suitable for all VWs from 1986 onwards, unless the vehicle has a carburettor,
and , of course, providing the vehicle does not require a minimum Octane fuel of 95 or more.
Bruce
and
Dear Barry,
Thank you for your enquiry,
For the latest model cars, ie the millenium versions, it is best to use a
98 octane fuel with no more than 10% ethanol. For your VW Golf, a 95 octane is suitable but you would need to confirm if the E10 is definitely 91
octane.
E10 would not be suitable for any of your vehicles, however to use this fuel would be your perogative. Volkswagen vehicles are designed to use certain
octanes.
Ethanol blends are only new on the market and not a lot of research on the long term effects have been made yet for the Volkswagen brand. Please
always stay with What is recommended for your particular vehicle. Please contact a Volkswagen trained Technician to seek some more advice with
particular fuel blends.
http://www.volkswagen.com.au
Will give you a more comprehensive list of Volkswagen service centres.
If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Carmen Elder
Volkswagen Customer Service Representative
Volkswagen Information Centre
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Kombi Dad
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 08:57 AM |
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One thing to keep in mind is the difference in consumption between using low and high octane unleaded. In my two kombis I ran them to and from work
for a few months using low and then high octane unleaded. The average results were:
1963 SC (1380 Pobjoy motor)
Low - 10l / 100km
High - 8.5l / 100km
1982 Camper (Standard FI 2l engine)
Low - 15.7l / 100km
High - 12.25l / 100km
Out of this I came to the conclusion that using something like Caltex Vortex was actually cheaper than lower octane owing to the better fuel
consumption. I did not try E10. Note the camper is pretty heavy as it is packed ready to go at all times hence what may appear reasonably heavy fuel
consumption.
Ian
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matberry
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 09:10 AM |
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Dont use E10 in a carby engine....simple.
If you use 98 you will spend less money AND protect your engine better.
PS. When I towed to Portland last year (4500km trip) my Wbxr 2.1 always gave 400km/tank of BP 98. The closest any other fuel gave was 375km/tank.
Believe me we ran out a few times in disbelief there could be such a diference (lucky there was a can of race fuel (BP98) in the trailer).
Needless to say I always use and recommend BP 98. Oh and I DO NOT WORK FOR BP in any way.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 11:01 AM |
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ok i always fill my tank so if I use E10 SHIT @$1.20litre or filled up with normal every day unleaded @ $1.25litre it would cost me a EXTRA $700 to
use E10 SHIT over 12months. compared to using the dearer unleaded
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Thinker
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 11:08 AM |
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ok, so E10 is cheaper that ULP BUT its cheaper to run ULP and,
ULP is cheaper than Premium BUT Premium is cheaper to than ULP,
SO the dearest fuel is the cheapest to use.
AND
the 90% of ULP in E10 which use more of
SO
it is cheaper and better for the planet to use premium. 
GOT IT.
in that case i will keep doing what i am doing and not look at the pump price.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 11:13 AM |
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yeah just make sure you Dont pick up the Green pump.
They made the pumps Green so we think of trees and stuff.
Its also green cause every time somebody uses it Caltex etc see Money
I use BP unleaded and it gives me better mileage to I THINK BP unleaded is 95???
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1500S
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Thinker
ok, so E10 is cheaper that ULP BUT its cheaper to run ULP and,
ULP is cheaper than Premium BUT Premium is cheaper to than ULP,
SO the dearest fuel is the cheapest to use.
AND
the 90% of ULP in E10 which use more of
SO
it is cheaper and better for the planet to use premium.
GOT IT.
in that case i will keep doing what i am doing and not look at the pump price.
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Yep!!
DH
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 12:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
yeah just make sure you Dont pick up the Green pump.
They made the pumps Green so we think of trees and stuff.
Its also green cause every time somebody uses it Caltex etc see Money
I use BP unleaded and it gives me better mileage to I THINK BP unleaded is 95???
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BP unleaded is 91 Ron as are most unleaded fuels Now...
they used to be approx 89 Ron before...
Beetles need 91 RON...
I now use normal unleaded instead of the expensive stuff...
beetle goes much better now.... tuned to perfection..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Kombi Dad
One thing to keep in mind is the difference in consumption between using low and high octane unleaded. In my two kombis I ran them to and from work
for a few months using low and then high octane unleaded. The average results were:
1963 SC (1380 Pobjoy motor)
Low - 10l / 100km
High - 8.5l / 100km
1982 Camper (Standard FI 2l engine)
Low - 15.7l / 100km
High - 12.25l / 100km
Out of this I came to the conclusion that using something like Caltex Vortex was actually cheaper than lower octane owing to the better fuel
consumption. I did not try E10. Note the camper is pretty heavy as it is packed ready to go at all times hence what may appear reasonably heavy fuel
consumption.
Ian
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Yes,
that is a heavy fuel consumption...
Very interesting results...
I have never checked My mileage with My beetle so I have no idea what I get now or before...
but My beetle uses a lot more than My Suzuki Swift 1.5 auto.
but then I love driving My beetle in cooler weather..
LEE
PS: I'll have to do some tests with 91 - 95 and 98 fuels...
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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modulus
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 03:14 PM |
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From the website of the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries:
| Quote: |
REASONS WHY ETHANOL BLENDED PETROL IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN SOME OLDER VEHICLES
Introduction
The following information outlines the key reasons why vehicle manufacturers do not recommend the use of any ethanol/petrol blended fuels in vehicles
made before 1986. This information is also applicable to post-1986 vehicles listed as unsuitable to use ethanol blended petrol.
Ethanol has a number of important chemical and physical properties that need to be considered in a vehicle's design.
Carburettor Equipped Engines
Vehicles made before 1986 vehicles were predominantly equipped with carburettors and steel fuel tanks.
The use of ethanol blended petrol in engines impacts the air/fuel ratio because of the additional oxygen molecules within the ethanol's chemical
structure.
Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns. This is because the vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be
greater (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.
As a solvent, ethanol attacks both the metallic and rubber based fuels lines, and other fuel system components.
Ethanol also has an affinity to water that can result in corrosion of fuel tanks and fuel lines. Rust resulting from this corrosion can ultimately
block the fuel supply rendering the engine inoperable. Water in the fuel system can also result in the engine hesitating and running roughly.
Fuel Injected Engines
In addition to the issues mentioned above for carburettor equipped engines, the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in
early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.
Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended
petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.
Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result.
Exhaust And Evaporative Emission Levels
Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.
Of more concern is that fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components, particularly those that have aged for
nearly 20 years. Therefore the increased vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) will
lead to increased evaporative emissions.
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tar76
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1622
Threads: 95
Registered: December 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Ningi Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Rollin with The Dub Collective
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| posted on January 23rd, 2010 at 09:58 PM |
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I hate the sh%@!! I tried running my garden tools on it and nothing but trouble., run rough/big miss and couldn't get them to rev full out. Poured
out and drained fuel line, filled back up with normal unleaded and bingo working fine. so there is no way i'm going to put this crap in my bus.
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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