| [ Total Views: 15410 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 85099 ] |
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 krusher74
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| posted on July 31st, 2010 at 08:50 PM |
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Info wanted, on type3 subaru install keeping engine under the the stock cover .
Hi, I'm not new to vw's but new to researching subaru swap.
I have been considering a type3 squareback with a ej16 swap (euro engine I can get cheap, had plenty of power for me and would get the best mpg)
Anyway I have found all the basics of the installs easy enough to find, but am still searching for any one that has managed to get the subaru under
the stock engine hatch.
I see this as a personal goal, as it would be great to get this swap in a squareback/variant without loosing all that cargo space, and a flat load bed
with the rear seat down.
Anyone seen it done before I think it would require a custom inlet manifold.
Found this so far.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=542877
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seagull
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| posted on August 1st, 2010 at 11:21 AM |
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I think an ej16 is not worth the effort , go bigger for a bigger hole in the ozone layer 
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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pete wood
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| posted on August 1st, 2010 at 04:00 PM |
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if you put a hump in the cover you could do that anyway with some of the other motors. personally, I wouldn't go to all the effort of a conversion
for the EJ16. It's not known for being a great 1600. For the same work an EJ22/25 would go in and be a LOT more fun. the reason the EJ16 is cheap is
because it's crap.
just a thought. btw, where are you? Australia or somewhere else?
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krusher74
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 11:05 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
if you put a hump in the cover you could do that anyway with some of the other motors. personally, I wouldn't go to all the effort of a conversion
for the EJ16. It's not known for being a great 1600. For the same work an EJ22/25 would go in and be a LOT more fun. the reason the EJ16 is cheap is
because it's crap.
just a thought. btw, where are you? Australia or somewhere else?
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I have never been much of a big engine guy, and with petrol in the uk at $2 aussie a liter I would rather have some decent fuel economy
The stock type 3 engine has around 55/60hp and the ej16 has 95hp, so that would be quite enough of an improvement for me.
I will have to look into the ej16 being "crap" I have seen nothing on the net of reliability problems. 
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bajachris88
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 02:24 PM |
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A lad on here got a 6.7ltrs/100km with an ej25.
would would easily assume then the ej16 would be much smaller again.... but i dunno... for a smaller motor, you will have to put ur foot further to
the floor and chew threw to pick up the pace. i guess its a balance hey...
what was the fuel economy of it in the scoobi's themselves?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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krusher74
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 06:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
A lad on here got a 6.7ltrs/100km with an ej25.
would would easily assume then the ej16 would be much smaller again.... but i dunno... for a smaller motor, you will have to put ur foot further to
the floor and chew threw to pick up the pace. i guess its a balance hey...
what was the fuel economy of it in the scoobi's themselves?
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The impreza with the EJ16 in reviews was said to get around 34mpg depending on driving habits. With the 2.2/2.5 only 25ish, so thats nearlt 50%
improvement in fuel economy.
the 60hp stock engine i had in an old type3 was fine for the car to me so i think the jump to 95 hp would not mean i needed to floor the ej16 all the
time.
the impreza is also heavier than the type3.
The ej18 is the same bore but with a longer stroke crank, so that means more TQ, so that might be a better halfway house.
6.9 litres per 100 kilometres = 41 mpg-imp that seems amazing for a 2.5! A shed load more than it ever got in the OG subaru, i dont know if i can
believe that
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Joel
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 06:11 PM |
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the EJ16 being "crap" is just because people dont like the power output.
Its like sayings VWs 1200 is crap but their 1600s are tops, its the same frigging engine design just different bore/stroke.
They arent terribly common here but I've driven EJ18 impreza's and whilst they're no race car but flog along alright, so i dont imagine a EJ16
would be much slower
the 18 at 76kw only has 6kw more than the 16
The 6.7L/100 I got from my EJ22 not EJ25 bug that Chris is talking about above isnt really an accurate representation, as it was a straight highway
run at 100km/h with no hills
normally i get an average 8.7L/100 which is 33mpg in old money with mainly around town stop/start use.
As you said EJ16 is the baby but still nearly double a 1600 vw engine but will be 100x smoother, economical and last longer
I say go for it
According to redbook the EJ16 Imprezas average combined economy is 7.2L/100
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bajachris88
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 06:48 PM |
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Sorry Joel.. my bad.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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GTMac
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| posted on August 4th, 2010 at 09:10 PM |
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Lot of effort I still think to run the 1600, at least go a 2.2 and with the extra torque it will cruize beautifully. Why so worried about keeping
under orig cover, do you need to carry stuff? I would be surprised even if a Suby 1600 would sit under orig cover, I know the 1800 carby wont. Maybe a
efi engine will just do it. I can get about 7.2l/100km on freeway and under 10l/100km around town, thats with over 240hp atw.
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers. 
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn? 
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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krusher74
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| posted on August 5th, 2010 at 02:48 AM |
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Thanks for the info so far guys, as I said i;m a small engine guy and 95hp is more than enough for me and if fuel prices continue to rise I woul be
better off.
I think its would just be nice to get it under the OG hatch as a super clean install . There are available sleep extenders for the rear seat of a
squareback so with the flat back you can have a 6ft bed in there. I surf so it would be nice to have a bed option without sleeping on a hump.
End up with the rear like this http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/680319.jpg
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GTMac
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| posted on August 5th, 2010 at 01:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by krusher74
Thanks for the info so far guys, as I said i;m a small engine guy and 95hp is more than enough for me and if fuel prices continue to rise I woul be
better off.
I think its would just be nice to get it under the OG hatch as a super clean install . There are available sleep extenders for the rear seat of a
squareback so with the flat back you can have a 6ft bed in there. I surf so it would be nice to have a bed option without sleeping on a hump.
End up with the rear like this http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/680319.jpg
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OK, a little bit more sense now that we know its a square back and you want to lay the seats down, understandable!
I think then that only the smaller 1600 or 1800 would fit but I would think that the efi system would be sitting lower than a carb engine and if thats
the case I would still think that a modified sump will be required for ground clearance.
1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers.
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn?
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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Joel
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| posted on August 5th, 2010 at 01:10 PM |
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The EJ16 is no different in height to a 20, 22 or 25, they all have the same manifold lay out
The only exception is the carbed EJ16, and we didnt get them here and I'd be surprised if they were sold in the UK
they sit a tad higher, you may have a make a bubbled engine hatch
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krusher74
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| posted on August 5th, 2010 at 05:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
The EJ16 is no different in height to a 20, 22 or 25, they all have the same manifold lay out
The only exception is the carbed EJ16, and we didnt get them here and I'd be surprised if they were sold in the UK
they sit a tad higher, you may have a make a bubbled engine hatch
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Hi I would not be using the carbed engine as that has about as much power as the stock vw engine, (I think the carbed are EA engines)
So far I think a modified manifold is the only option this one is from a light aircraft company
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bajachris88
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| posted on August 5th, 2010 at 05:09 PM |
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How kool is that
Go for it man! just keep us updated on ur progress.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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pete wood
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| posted on August 6th, 2010 at 09:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by krusher74
I have never been much of a big engine guy, and with petrol in the uk at $2 aussie a liter I would rather have some decent fuel economy
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ah, so this is the key. UK fuel prices. I'd still say go an EJ20 or 22 though because they have a lot more torque and you just don't have to rev it
as much... which is what keeps fuel economy low.
The EJ25 I have can be driven like a nana for, ie under 1500rpm all day. Or you can actually use the power and then, well... you probably can't
imagine how much fun it is.
And if you are gonna be above the 999cc MOT discount, you might as well do it properly. 
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Joel
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| posted on August 6th, 2010 at 09:59 AM |
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Pete's right, even the bigger motors are fairly economical if driven accordingly.
There was a carb'd version of the EJ16 but i have no idea what countrys they were sold in, Ive seen one in a bug before
Aside from the air cleaner, they're abit lower engine
The round plug on the back of the cam for the 1/3 head is where the distributor goes
but unless you wanted to avoid alll the wiring, Fuel injection is one of the main reasons for the conversion
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krusher74
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| posted on August 7th, 2010 at 03:37 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
| Quote: | Originally
posted by krusher74
I have never been much of a big engine guy, and with petrol in the uk at $2 aussie a liter I would rather have some decent fuel economy
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And if you are gonna be above the 999cc MOT discount, you might as well do it properly.
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I'm not quite sure what you mean here, the MOT has no discount its flat fee for any car, maybe your referring to road tax, I think you call it
rego?
Road tax is lower for smaller engined car, but the main discounted brackets are for small non polluting new cars. I think even the 1.6 jumps into a
high bracket 
Anyway I will see what shows up, I have a nice ej16 in my sights with only 70,000 on it and cheap. Will see whats arounf in the bigger sizes too.
I am in sight of sealing a deal on a base car, so this could turn from a virtual build to reality soon.
My daily driver is a 1980 mk1 polo with 895cc and 34hp, 1.6 is big to me and 2.5 huge!!!!
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krusher74
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| posted on September 17th, 2010 at 05:18 AM |
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Well been a while but here is an update.
I got a project car, a 63 squareback.
Any seeing its an early 1500 car I followed along with that and just got hold of a JDM EJ15 for it.
The EJ15 1498cc 16v four, 104bhp @ 6400rpm, 105lb ft @ 3200rpm
Thats plenty for me as the last 66 squareback I had was a stock 1600 with 60hp and was fine. So over 50% more power that that will suit me fine.
Going for a high MPG daily driver.
Will be megasquirting it, and building my own exhaust header and muffler.
Anybody know where I can more engine info than is already on the wiki page, I'm looking for valve sizes, cam spec and mpg figures.
thanks
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pete wood
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| posted on September 17th, 2010 at 11:05 AM |
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to upgrade to a 22 or 25 down the track won't be hard once you have a ej15-16 in it anyway. 
you will wan't more than 100hp down the track. trust me on that. I have a 165 and would like another 50 or so.
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ElusiveStranger
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| posted on September 25th, 2010 at 02:45 AM |
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Why do you want the hassle of Squirting it?
I dunno about your manifold but an EJ22 manifold stands higher than my EJ20.
I'm not sure but I think Doppelganger made a custom manifold at some point.
That might be worth a thought, shouldn't have thought it would be much more involved than an exhaust really.
Your real hassle will be the injector holes but isn't yours a single port injection?
If it is, Robert's your mothers brother
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krusher74
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| posted on December 3rd, 2010 at 05:02 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ElusiveStranger
Why do you want the hassle of Squirting it?
I dunno about your manifold but an EJ22 manifold stands higher than my EJ20.
I'm not sure but I think Doppelganger made a custom manifold at some point.
That might be worth a thought, shouldn't have thought it would be much more involved than an exhaust really.
Your real hassle will be the injector holes but isn't yours a single port injection?
If it is, Robert's your mothers brother
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I'm bothering to mega squirt it so I'm not stuck with the stock ECU (wiring looks easier this way to me), this way I can test and tune and remap to
my hearts content.
From what I have read of stock maps company's keep there fuel air at 14.5 to 1 because its good for cats and emissions, with the mega squirt I can
runs 13 for power and 17 for cruise, win win.
I dont have a pic of the ej1.5 but its a new engine from the japanese market, not the old 1.5
My car and engine are in california, I will be back there head scratching and working on this project from the middle of next week.
Here are a few pics I found for inspiration of: rad air in, header and manifold. (none are my car)
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pete wood
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| posted on December 10th, 2010 at 02:19 PM |
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I know I sound like a broken record, and it's your car and all, but for 104bhp you could build an aircooler for very similar money to installing the
subaru properly. I think it's a massive waste of time and money to end up with something the almost the same. For goodness sake buy at least a 2.0l
and get your money's worth. That's the whole idea of subaru swaps. A factory built, efi, big bore/stroker motor for the price of a mild mouse motor.
re meagsquirt, I would like to know what they are like. I've heard mixed reports on how they go on subarus.
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